why can't food be better

[fillyjonk]

The whole idea of walking the train to take reservations is lame. Install iPads or have people order or preorder from their smart phone.

How do we do this on trains that 1) don't have wi-fi and 2) travel through many areas where you have little to no cell service?

Also, not everyone has a smartphone. Those that do not may not be familiar with operating an in-room iPad.

I don't have a smartphone, so I guess that would mean, "No soup for you!"?

Why not have a space on the order, when you order tickets, to put down the preferred dinner reservation times? Or do they not know even a few weeks out which seatings they will have?

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I am so, so glad to hear there is someone else besides me who doesn't have a smartphone!

I like the personal interaction during a trip of someone coming through to take reservations. Also, sometimes when I have boarded right before dinner, there is a dinner reservation slip in my roomette. I love that--it's a nice reminder of a more civilized time--like a written invitation to a party!

However, going through the train is extra work for the dining crew, so I also like fillyjonk's suggestion of writing down preferred times when you book tickets.

 

[NETrainfan]

Yesterday I was reading some of the trip reports here and was interested to read the food comments. Indeed, there are many people who like certain Amtrak meals and there are people who express their disappointment about some entrees. That is the way of opinions.

Can't imagine why a poster would take a personal experience of Amtrak food and turn it into their own interpretation of that experience- and make

sweeping generalities about it. Opinion is opinion.

Yes, we have had our hot meals hot on Amtrak. If we get a meal anywhere and it is not warm enough, we ask for it to be reheated.

Yes, we have had good experiences with Amtrak food- that is our opinion and our fact only and further, we respect the opinions of others which is a good thing to do on a forum.

 

[andersone]

I know full well of the legacy of Fred Harvey, we are taking the Chief to the Grand Canyon in May. If you want the full story I might suggest reading "Appetite for America- Fred Harvey and the Business of Civilizing the West by Steven Fried. It's a really good read if you like a good business history

 

[fillyjonk]

I am so, so glad to hear there is someone else besides me who doesn't have a smartphone!

I like the personal interaction during a trip of someone coming through to take reservations. Also, sometimes when I have boarded right before dinner, there is a dinner reservation slip in my roomette. I love that--it's a nice reminder of a more civilized time--like a written invitation to a party!

However, going through the train is extra work for the dining crew, so I also like fillyjonk's suggestion of writing down preferred times when you book tickets.

I have been somewhat annoyed on a few recent trips where, in the dining car, I wound up seated with other people who only wanted to play around on their smartphones. Oh, I get taking a moment to text a relative, or once, I had a guy show me how he had an app that would show the current speed we were going at. But to sit and play Candy Crush while there is another person there? My parents would have taught me that was rude. Well, if Candy Crush had existed when I was a kid. (I was not allowed to read a book at the dinner table, which I suppose is the 1970s equivalent)

Then again, I was also once at a table where two other diners got into a political argument, so maybe there are things worse than smartphones at the table....

 

[BoulderCO]

Yes, the "reservation" system for coach passengers wanting to eat in the dining car needs work. I'm a "wanderer", and spend a fair amount of time moving between my coach seat and the observation/cafe car. When it is rumored that dining reservations are being taken I'm always very alert so that I don't miss out. Even so, about 50% of the time I never see anyone coming by to take reservations.

I'd like to see a signup sheet or a computerized terminal right at the end of the observation car at the entrance to the dining car. Most all coach passengers get to this area at least every few hours and could easily choose from any open tables and times. This would free up dining car personnel from the need to walk the train.

 

[Manny T]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the oatmeal at breakfast is cooked on board. I say that because once I ordered oatmeal and the waiter told me they were out. I must have looked so unhappy that he came back some time later with hot oatmeal and told me the chef just made up a new batch.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I have been somewhat annoyed on a few recent trips where, in the dining car, I wound up seated with other people who only wanted to play around on their smartphones. Oh, I get taking a moment to text a relative, or once, I had a guy show me how he had an app that would show the current speed we were going at. But to sit and play Candy Crush while there is another person there? My parents would have taught me that was rude. Well, if Candy Crush had existed when I was a kid. (I was not allowed to read a book at the dinner table, which I suppose is the 1970s equivalent)

Then again, I was also once at a table where two other diners got into a political argument, so maybe there are things worse than smartphones at the table....

I personally would rather see someone play on their smart phone than to sit their silently and make it clear they don't wish to converse. That to me is the most awkward ever. Since I have many different interests, including trains, travel, and history, it's usually pretty easy to strike up a conversation with people, but sometime it's just not meant to be.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yesterday I was reading some of the trip reports here and was interested to read the food comments. Indeed, there are many people who like certain Amtrak meals and there are people who express their disappointment about some entrees. That is the way of opinions. Can't imagine why a poster would take a personal experience of Amtrak food and turn it into their own interpretation of that experience- and make sweeping generalities about it.

Here in this thread the OP is asking why the food can't be better. The entirely of your contribution to the OP's inquiry has been that the food is already as good as it will ever need to be and that water alone would suffice anyhow. Which makes me wonder why you're even in this thread to begin with. Perhaps I've been missing the point and feeding the troll instead of feeding the thread.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the oatmeal at breakfast is cooked on board. I say that because once I ordered oatmeal and the waiter told me they were out. I must have looked so unhappy that he came back some time later with hot oatmeal and told me the chef just made up a new batch.

We're talking about adding hot water to dried grains, correct? Perhaps it's just semantics but I don't consider oatmeal to be a freshly prepared cooked-to-order dish.

 

[blondninja]

In regards to ordering via smart phone, if you have ever flown virgin America they have touch screens on the back of your seat Which is how one orders food and beverage,both for purchase and complimentary.

Of course nothing like that would probably happen on Amtrak until new sleeping cars are delivered system wide and they aren't even all on order yet. Or at least new renovations to existing cars.

By getting reservations and items in advance it seems they'd better be able to gage items since I've also often experienced out of stocks. As someone who doesn't eat red meat and has the food allergies, it limits what I can order with such a small menu to begin with, and then if they are sold out of some items it makes it particularly difficult.

I've sat down many a time and then been told they are out of the chicken or the fish, for example.

 

[NETrainfan]

Well, I never said the Amtrak food was as good as it ever could be. I only said that

our personal experience of the food has always been good. Please note that I didn't say very good or excellent. And please note

that I said we would travel Amtrak even it only water was available and not meals. Perhaps we have enjoyed our Amtrak food experiences because we are not "consummate cynics" but rather appreciative travelers.

If you read some of the trip reports, you will see that many Amtrak riders like many of the Amtrak meals.

So it is important for those of us who have had good experiences to speak up. We shouldn't be thwarted by one person's

sweeping judgments.

If one cannot accept another person's opinion- why not just go on to another subject instead of being impolite?

 

[NETrainfan]

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

If Amtrak got an increased subsidy I would sure hope they would put it toward more trains than better food.

If you surveyed passengers (or potential passengers) on what they disliked most about Amtrak; frequency, OTP, and better equipment would be the first priorities long before better food.

Outside of the railfan crowd is the food situation generating lots of complaints by those who are riding the train for transportation? (yes, here I am including the LD's too, just not the "land cruise" segment of the ridership which is by no means all of the ridership)

That said, if they want to save money on food service they need to stop touting it as a reason for people to ride.

For us, this is the place of better food in the realm of Amtrak's future. There are many other things to be considered before the food quality.

 

[niemi24s]

If one cannot accept another person's opinion- why not just go on to another subject instead of being impolite?

You don't seem to understand. Such is the sworn duty of a self-appointed SM-62.

 

[jis]

If one cannot accept another person's opinion- why not just go on to another subject instead of being impolite?

You don't seem to understand. Such is the sworn duty of a self-appointed SM-62.

Yup. The MO is tantrums shall be thrown whether it makes any sense or not and all that will be justified to self saying it is a positive contribution from the devil and therefore justified. I have just learned to ignore the blather when it passes a certain threshold of nonsense, and carry on with life and let the devil take care of the rest
Then again there are occasions when there are excellent contributions too!

 

[sldispatcher]

Isn't some of this a shell game though?

If dining is included with your sleeper fare, they can just move dollars from the sleeper fare over to the dining budget line? Not that I have personally looked into it, but many on here point to the convoluted accounting methods Amtrak uses.

Personally, I look at airline catering kitchens and agree with many on here that Amtrak is picking the meals that get served. Airlines choose what they are going to serve First Class (I.e. sleeper) or sell to economy class ( coach). The airline food has started to be kicked up a few notches lately as competitive pressures mount. It is not by some miraculous event that the kitchens were able to make better food, but rather a choice by airlines to select higher quality items.

Labor prices can kill any business if left unchecked and out of control. Does someone giving up family time/travel away from home/long hours need to be compensated for that? Yes. But at what cost to the traveling public?

I am one of those that wonders if Roomettes should be getting full dining privs. Should it be more of a $'s off voucher used to purchase? Seems like a larger portion of the roomette fare would have to go towards dining costs than from the Bedroom folks. But that's just my practical self thinking that. That is revenue slippage.

Not sure why the political bullets always have to come out. The problem starts at "home". Amtrak could take a step towards "fixing" this issue next week if they wanted to do so. Higher prices, sleeper revenue allocation, and food quality improvement should triumph over the "cut to break even profitability".

 

[fillyjonk]

Isn't some of this a shell game though?

If dining is included with your sleeper fare, they can just move dollars from the sleeper fare over to the dining budget line? Not that I have personally looked into it, but many on here point to the convoluted accounting methods Amtrak uses.

Personally, I look at airline catering kitchens and agree with many on here that Amtrak is picking the meals that get served. Airlines choose what they are going to serve First Class (I.e. sleeper) or sell to economy class ( coach). The airline food has started to be kicked up a few notches lately as competitive pressures mount. It is not by some miraculous event that the kitchens were able to make better food, but rather a choice by airlines to select higher quality items.

Labor prices can kill any business if left unchecked and out of control. Does someone giving up family time/travel away from home/long hours need to be compensated for that? Yes. But at what cost to the traveling public?

I am one of those that wonders if Roomettes should be getting full dining privs. Should it be more of a $'s off voucher used to purchase? Seems like a larger portion of the roomette fare would have to go towards dining costs than from the Bedroom folks. But that's just my practical self thinking that. That is revenue slippage.

Not sure why the political bullets always have to come out. The problem starts at "home". Amtrak could take a step towards "fixing" this issue next week if they wanted to do so. Higher prices, sleeper revenue allocation, and food quality improvement should triumph over the "cut to break even profitability".

But what about numbers of people per room? I always travel alone so I get a roomette, because bedrooms are too expensive for one person. So I wind up getting, say, 25% off my diner meal, while a bedroom with two parents and a child in it get free meals for all of them? And what about those who use AGR points? I suspect it would make for more difficult accounting and frustration for the dining car crew.

I don't know. I'm generally mostly okay with the diner food (then again, I tend to get the steak). I think I'd be okay with being asked to pay for my meal IF the meals were really super good. (If it came to that? I'd like to see more choice and variety). What I DON'T want is to see the diners replaced with, say, a "Subway" branded car where you have to buy a Subway sandwich. Or a McDonald's car. That would actually make me less want to travel LD on Amtrak, or to try to bring my own food.

 

[sldispatcher]

But what about numbers of people per room? I always travel alone so I get a roomette, because bedrooms are too expensive for one person. So I wind up getting, say, 25% off my diner meal, while a bedroom with two parents and a child in it get free meals for all of them? And what about those who use AGR points? I suspect it would make for more difficult accounting and frustration for the dining car crew.


I don't know. I'm generally mostly okay with the diner food (then again, I tend to get the steak). I think I'd be okay with being asked to pay for my meal IF the meals were really super good. (If it came to that? I'd like to see more choice and variety). What I DON'T want is to see the diners replaced with, say, a "Subway" branded car where you have to buy a Subway sandwich. Or a McDonald's car. That would actually make me less want to travel LD on Amtrak, or to try to bring my own food.

In my opinion, you either raise incremental revenue or the service will eventually be so degraded it will flatline. As you say, quite poignantly later on in your post above, you don't want the diner replaced by a Subway branded car..AND you'd actually be willing to fork over a few dollars for improved food.

At the end of the day, there are obviously many factors that play into this equation:

labor costs

food prep and transport on a moving platform

questions of revenue allocation from the sleeper buckets into food and beverage

internal corporate culture

lack of congressional vision

quality concerns

incremental revenue streams almost non-existent

People will pay $6 for a coke and $4 for a small bag of popcorn after paying $8 to get into a movie. They'll do it (albeit complain about it) as an expected part of the experience. As far as I'm concerned, the prices in the dining car are TOO LOW relative to the fixed costs of the high end labor and rolling restaurant that has to be maintained. Give them the experience, and they'll pay for it. They'll moan, but they'll pay for it.

 

[jis]

When I had the option to travel by Sleeper (Slumbercoach) and choose the meals that I took in the Diner pay as you go, I tended to take one meal per day in the Diner.

 

[MARC Rider]

Congressman Mica doesn't want "taxpayers" subsidizing "rich" Amtrak passengers.

I recall reading about one of the encounters between the good Congressman and Amtrak on this issue, and my impression was that their real target was the fact that Amtrak food service workers are actually paid a living wage with benefits, which is perhaps one of the reasons why the Amtrak dining service loses the money they do while actual restaurants can serve really good food at the same prices that Amtrak charges.

Line cooks -- in New York!! -- are paid $10 an hour, waitstaff doesn't even have to be paid minimum wage, they're supposed to make it up on tips. And sometimes they aren't guaranteed a full workweek, or at least regular hours so that they can assemble a couple of part-time jobs and earn a living. I'm particularly sensitive to this because my daughter is now gainfully(?) underemployed in the food service industry, so I have learned how it works.

The reason Amtrak food service staff earns a living wage is because they're unionized, and Congressman Mica's political party has apparently decided on an electoral strategy that involves breaking unions (which tend to support the political party in opposition to Congressman Mica's political party) instead of trying to attract union voters.

There's probably also higher fixed costs to operate a dining car, as opposed to, say, a food truck. And Amtrak could also use some help from restaurant professionals on ways to increase revenue. (Maybe they could get chef Gordon Ramsay of "Kitchen Nightmares" to do a reality show ). But I think the wage differential is probably a big reason for the Great Amtrak Food Fight. Nice thing to think about every time you eat out and have tasty affordable food. I, for one, always tip well, even if the service isn't perfect. The help works hard and deserves it.

 

[blondninja]

I agree and always tip 20% at restaurants. But not on Amtrak. Oftentimes, I find service dismissive at sometimes almost militant depending on who it is. I had the LSA roll his eyes at me on the sunset a couple of weeks ago. These clowns wouldn't last a week in a "real" job.

 

[jebr]

Being a dining car attendant is a "real" job.

 

[Radvlad]

I agree and always tip 20% at restaurants. But not on Amtrak. Oftentimes, I find service dismissive at sometimes almost militant depending on who it is. I had the LSA roll his eyes at me on the sunset a couple of weeks ago. These clowns wouldn't last a week in a "real" job.

Perhaps it's your attitude which causes you to get bad service? And if you "refuse" to eat red meat and you have food allergies, then perhaps you should take some responsibility and bring your own food? The majority of people on the train do eat red meat.

And your clown comment says a lot about how you view others.

 

[SarahZ]

I agree and always tip 20% at restaurants. But not on Amtrak. Oftentimes, I find service dismissive at sometimes almost militant depending on who it is. I had the LSA roll his eyes at me on the sunset a couple of weeks ago. These clowns wouldn't last a week in a "real" job.

I'd like to know what you consider a "real" job.

Please. Enlighten us.

 

[Ryan]

 

[neroden]

Congressman Mica doesn't want "taxpayers" subsidizing "rich" Amtrak passengers.

I recall reading about one of the encounters between the good Congressman and Amtrak on this issue, and my impression was that their real target was the fact that Amtrak food service workers are actually paid a living wage with benefits, which is perhaps one of the reasons why the Amtrak dining service loses the money they do while actual restaurants can serve really good food at the same prices that Amtrak charges.

You might be right. This might explain all the shell games and dishonest accounting perpetrated by Mica -- if he believes this but doesn't want to say this outright, that would explain why he makes up nonsense.
Honestly, if Mica said "Amtrak food service workers are overpaid featherbedded union goons" I wouldn't *agree* but I would *respect* Mica for being forthright about his opinion. Instead he talks nonsense about $80 burgers and I have no respect for that whatsoever.

waitstaff doesn't even have to be paid minimum wage, they're supposed to make it up on tips.

We've been trying to get that law changed for decades because it's ridiculous. According to the law, if the tips don't actually bring them up to minimum wage, the employer *must* pay them the difference, but this seems to be practically impossible to enforce. Thankfully there seems to be some traction towards removing this ludicrous loophole in minimum wage law.