why can't food be better

[Bob Dylan]

Patriotism and Union Bashing, the last refuge of scoundrels!

The main reason Amtrak has lived hand to mouth since A-Day, are the people that allegedly work in the Big White Domed Building and the Government Office Buildings by Union Station.

You could look it up!

 

[Triley]

I've been fortunate to have traveled Amtrak during it's better days. My personal opinion, which may fuel some debate here, to the reason why the food can't be better, the service, the product, is because of the ridiculously high wages of the employees, fueled by Union labor, which, in its day, was needed/appreciated, but today is simply an expensive crutch, which allows unacceptable employees to remain on the job, being paid far higher wages than they deserve. The conditions that sleepers have been allowed to deteriorate to, much from the neglect of employees to simply do their jobs is a perfect reflection of what is wrong with Amtrak.

There was a time, even not too long ago, that you could sit down in the diner and have a reasonably tasty meal, which was prepared onboard. Not so now. It's downright awful.

You may say what you like, but let me give you a little insight in to our trips... There are some six day round trips out there, where the LSA-Cafe is expected to work 18 hour days, with few breaks. This doesn't include time to dismantle and re-set up the stock displays at the beginning/end of their shift, nor time to relax and fall asleep, wake up and get ready, etc.
Our Acela jobs out of Boston are 17 hour days. One of the jobs we use have involves working (10 hour day) to DC where we lay over (unpaid) 18 hours or so, work the five hour trip to Norfolk getting to the hotel by 12am, and then have to be back downstairs with the crew around 4:30am, and then working the 13 hour trip back to Boston (remember we're actually on duty for almost 15 hours, on 3.5 hours sleep on a good day).

What would you ask to be paid, to stand and work 15 hours, on that little sleep?

Compare our lack of hours of service, short turns, lack of sleep during some turns, and our pay, to what flight attendants deal with, and their pay. Does it really seem that far off that we earn what we do, when you consider the negatives compared to our closest sister profession?

 

[Ryan]

Ideology trumps (no pun intended) facts for some people.

 

[northnorthwest]

Finally had a chance to reply to my original post and say that on my recent trip from DEN to ATL the meals on the Crescent were decent, the meals on the Capitol Ltd. were very good (steak about as good as what you'd make at home), and the meals on the CZ were TERRIBLE...again. The oatmeal at breakfast was inedible, and the service was...again...very poor. This is the third time I've taken that train long distance between DEN and the east coast, and every time it's been poor service in the diner and poor food. I know it can be better, because other trains do it better. But it just seems that the dining staff have poor training and bad attitudes generally, and the food is just not good. I will take the train from Glenwood Springs to CA if I have a chance (head the scenery is stunning, and just out of rail loyalty), but otherwise I'm never taking this train. It needs big improvement.

Also on a related subject: why is it that all these trains are part of Amtrak, but they all insist on doing things different ways. For example, the CZ had no metal silverware; we were all using plastic, which was really tacky. But other trains use metal...And other trains like the Crescent ask me to sign my name after they filled out my room/car number on the form FOR ME, but then the CZ worker scolds me because I didn't do that on my own?! There should be some consistency across these basic services. I know I have to provide the information, but on other routes they've asked me and done the actual writing on the form themselves, but out of nowhere the policy of the CZ is that I (potentially as a new rider) have to read their minds and know what to do?! As they say, third time's a charm. I hope they get their act together, but I'm out of patience for that route.

 

[neroden]

Let me repeat myself:

It's really a matter of bad priorities and poor procurement practices. I am astounded that Amtrak doesn't have point-of-sale inventory tracking in the dining cars yet -- apparently it isn't even in all the *cafe* cars yet. But rather than get rid of thousands of man-hours of time-wasting inventory counting and paperwork, Amtrak chooses to skimp on quality.

The gross service inconsistency described by northnorthwest is just as bad, and another symptom of management just not bothering.

 

[zephyr17]

Finally had a chance to reply to my original post and say that on my recent trip from DEN to ATL the meals on the Crescent were decent, the meals on the Capitol Ltd. were very good (steak about as good as what you'd make at home), and the meals on the CZ were TERRIBLE...again. The oatmeal at breakfast was inedible, and the service was...again...very poor. This is the third time I've taken that train long distance between DEN and the east coast, and every time it's been poor service in the diner and poor food. I know it can be better, because other trains do it better. But it just seems that the dining staff have poor training and bad attitudes generally, and the food is just not good. I will take the train from Glenwood Springs to CA if I have a chance (head the scenery is stunning, and just out of rail loyalty), but otherwise I'm never taking this train. It needs big improvement.

Also on a related subject: why is it that all these trains are part of Amtrak, but they all insist on doing things different ways. For example, the CZ had no metal silverware; we were all using plastic, which was really tacky. But other trains use metal...And other trains like the Crescent ask me to sign my name after they filled out my room/car number on the form FOR ME, but then the CZ worker scolds me because I didn't do that on my own?! There should be some consistency across these basic services. I know I have to provide the information, but on other routes they've asked me and done the actual writing on the form themselves, but out of nowhere the policy of the CZ is that I (potentially as a new rider) have to read their minds and know what to do?! As they say, third time's a charm. I hope they get their act together, but I'm out of patience for that route.

Sounds like the Chicago crew base struck again. It isn't going to get better unless and until the management of that base gets themselves and their crews together.

Or better yet, they start enforcing consistent standards on all the crew bases.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

On the topic of the Zephyr.. I've had very good luck with Diner Crews on the Zephyr. The zephyr is my all time favorite train, I like it better than the Canadian (gasp!). I've rode on the Zephyr 4 times last year and had 4 different diner crews and 3 of them were excellent and 1 was "amtrak average," good food, one of the servers was great, one of the servers was just ok, and the LSA was lazy and bossy. I'm just throwing that out there that my experiences on the Zephyr have mostly been good, so good Zephyr crews do exist.

As for the inconsistency on the checks. From what I can tell that is a crew base difference. Trains from the east coast (Silver Meteor, Crescent, Lake Shore, etc.) fill in the passengers car and room # for them, and then have the customer sign them. The West Coast Crews expect you to "know the drill." Personally I've always disliked that practice for a few reasons. #1 they put out a plastic cup of cheap bic pens on the table. Nothing classy about that. Second... it sets up passengers to be confused and then get scolded for doing it wrong. The East Coast method never hands the checks out except for the signing, this greatly reduces confusion and is, in my opinion, a much classier way of handling this.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The scenery on the Zephyr is second to none in tbe US, but comparing it to The Canadian is "over the top"!

( I've ridden both many times!)

 

[FormerOBS]

Conquistador:

Please tell us what you think the pay should be for an onboard service employee. I happen to disagree with you, but I'd like to hear more about your theories regarding fair compensation for the work these folks do.

It's true that some onboard employees do their jobs better than others, but that doesn't seem like a very good reason to suggest that the majority are poor employees. I also believe the quality of the food often has a lot more to do with the supplies provided by management than anything else.

Tom

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The scenery on the Zephyr is second to none in tbe US, but comparing it to The Canadian is "over the top"!

( I've ridden both many times!)

I love the Canadian but I think it's highly over rated at the same time. (talking about the scenery.. dome cars can not be over rated, they are true perfection). There is great scenery, but there are some really boring parts too. I think of it more like the Empire Builder.

The Zephyr has the Rocky Mountains (complete with big 10 curves and Moffat Tunnel), Ruby Canyon, Glenwood Canyon, Donner Pass, and the Bay. The Canadian has..... the Rockies and Jasper. It does have the Canyon but does it ever travel through there during light hours?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Meals on the CZ were TERRIBLE...again. The oatmeal at breakfast was inedible, and the service was...again...very poor. This is the third time I've taken that train long distance between DEN and the east coast, and every time it's been poor service in the diner and poor food. I know it can be better, because other trains do it better. But it just seems that the dining staff have poor training and bad attitudes generally, and the food is just not good. The CZ had no metal silverware; we were all using plastic, which was really tacky. But other trains use metal...And other trains like the Crescent ask me to sign my name after they filled out my room/car number on the form FOR ME, but then the CZ worker scolds me because I didn't do that on my own?! I know I have to provide the information, but on other routes they've asked me and done the actual writing on the form themselves, but out of nowhere the policy of the CZ is that I (potentially as a new rider) have to read their minds and know what to do?! I hope they get their act together, but I'm out of patience for that route.

This matches my experience with the CZ perfectly. Arrogant and obnoxious crews with lousy dining services. The views are great but the staff acts like you're invading their space and annoying them virtually anytime you interact. Makes for a rather draining train trip. On some occasions I've ended my CZ inclusive trips early rather than put up with more of Amtrak's dismal service levels. Just to be clear I don't think every Amtrak train is like this. In fact I've found the CS to be almost completely the opposite.

Sounds like the Chicago crew base struck again. It isn't going to get better unless and until the management of that base gets themselves and their crews together. Or better yet, they start enforcing consistent standards on all the crew bases.

At this point I think it's pretty clear that whatever is wrong with the Chicago base isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. I'm not sure if Amtrak simply refuses to accept that a problem exists or has simply giving up any hope of ever correcting it.

On the topic of the Zephyr.. I've had very good luck with Diner Crews on the Zephyr. The zephyr is my all time favorite train, I like it better than the Canadian (gasp!). From what I can tell that is a crew base difference. Trains from the east coast (Silver Meteor, Crescent, Lake Shore, etc.) fill in the passengers car and room # for them, and then have the customer sign them. The West Coast Crews expect you to "know the drill."

Every single experience of mine has been the complete opposite of what you're describing here. If I didn't know better I might think you were intentionally trolling this thread.

 

[andersone]

I would rate the numerous trips on the Zeph at least an 85 - so I am going to side with DA on this one,,, not perfect food or service but way above average/

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Devils advocate... I really like your posts in general but do you really think I'm lying? I'm sharing my experiences.

I'm not suggesting you're lying when you say you've had all bad experiences on the zephyr, because I've ridden enough Amtrak trains to know how inconsistent they really are.

For years I had such consistently bad service on the Capitol I dreaded riding the train, this year I had a wonderful diner crew and SCA. I was totally shocked as I thought the DC crew base must to blame.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Devils advocate... I really like your posts in general but do you really think I'm lying? I'm sharing my experiences. I'm not suggesting you're lying when you say you've had all bad experiences on the zephyr, because I've ridden enough Amtrak trains to know how inconsistent they really are. For years I had such consistently bad service on the Capitol I dreaded riding the train, this year I had a wonderful diner crew and SCA. I was totally shocked as I thought the DC crew base must to blame.

I'm not nearly as perpetually hyped about the Canadian's service as many folks on the forum, but the idea that the CZ routinely exceeds the VC experience just does not compute for me. Nor does the idea that the Chicago crews are easy going while the LA crews have heavy expectations. That being said, I don't actually think you're lying. I simply have no frame of reference for what you're describing and it sounds completely foreign to me. To each his own as they say.

 

[Cina]

I've had pretty good dining crews the 5 times I've ridden the zephyr. Two times the staff were exceptionally charismatic and nice, and the other times were nothing to write home about, but no one was doing their jobs poorly or with an attitude. I've also been blessed with really good SCAs the three times I've travelled in sleeper (Nathan and Darrel, if anyone's had them.)

There are probably some pretty awful employees based out of Chicago, but I've been really lucky to have great-to-fine ones, and hope to again this summer. *knocks on every piece of wood within reach*

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I've has Nathan on the Zephyr. Very nice. And Dennis Burns I've had twice, one of Amtraks best!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Ohhhhhh wait. Total misunderstanding. I was saying the zephyr is my favorite train for scenery and route. Not service! I was saying the zephyr is my favorite so I ride it a lot.

I had good service on the zephyr. But it was "Amtrak good." And as I mentioned out of 4 trips on the zephyr, one of them had an extremely bossy LSA. But the server I got most of the time was very nice.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Ohhhhhh wait. Total misunderstanding. I was saying the zephyr is my favorite train for scenery and route. Not service! I was saying the zephyr is my favorite so I ride it a lot. I had good service on the zephyr. But it was "Amtrak good."

Roger that. I understand what you're saying now. I think the VC has some great scenery although it's mostly bunched up toward the Western end of the route while the CZ seems to have a larger variety of equally interesting landscapes that span a longer duration of travel. Personally I think the CS has the best overall combination of scenery, service, and scheduling. The scenery may not be quite as impressive as the CZ but the other pieces add up to easier planning and a far more pleasant and relaxed feeling at the end of my journey.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Much as I like the Scenery on the Zephyr route, I have to say that IMO the Starlight has the Zephyr beat when all things are considered!( Scenery/PPC-Food/Service/)

As for equipment, food and service, the Canadian wins hands down. Lots of folks dislike the delays that it expierences because of freight priority, but when riding the Canadian I really don't care if we ever get there, the journey is so pleasant!

 

[HenryK]

"Cheeriness begets cheeriness," goes the saying, and the obverse obviously holds true for certain folks on this forum. Some of the members remind me of Joe Btfsplk.

 

[zepherdude]

I do not take the train a lot, but always enjoy what I order. Service always meets my expectations, I joke and cut up with the staff and the folks at my table, if they are pleasant enough. I know what to expect and surprised if I get more. I realize these folks are not professional waitstaff and might be making beds tomorrow. I think the food is good for a train as I realize the problems of long distance food production. Just my feelings on the issue as I have never had to grip or bitch. BTW, the wine is much better than mentioned above somewhere else.

 

[KauaiJohn]

I have always enjoyed the meals on all of the western trains. I don't eat eggs but love the breakfast and it is always plenty and filling. I almost always enjoy meeting and talking with the other couple at the table

 

[neroden]

Every single experience of mine has been the complete opposite of what you're describing here. If I didn't know better I might think you were intentionally trolling this thread.

Read the Amtrak PIP for the California Zephyr -- specifically page 4.

There are six crews operating at any given time; there are a total of 14 crews.

At the time, of these crews, 6 were good enough:

-- two receive lots of praise and very few complaints

-- one receives lots of praise and a fair number of complaints

-- three receive little praise but few complaints

And 8 were no good: they had high complaints and little praise.

So if you luck out and always get the 6 good crews, your experience is great. If on the other hand you always get the 8 terrible crews, your experience is terrible.

So Amtrak identified the problem. They don't seem to have been able to *fix* it, however.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I...always enjoy what I order. Service always meets my expectations.

&

I have always enjoyed the meals on all of the western trains.

People who casually admit that it’s virtually impossible to disappoint them will never cease to amaze me. Makes me wonder what it’s like to live life as a proud pushover.

Every single experience of mine has been the complete opposite of what you're describing here. If I didn't know better I might think you were intentionally trolling this thread.

Read the Amtrak PIP for the California Zephyr -- specifically page 4.

There are six crews operating at any given time; there are a total of 14 crews.

At the time, of these crews, 6 were good enough:

-- two receive lots of praise and very few complaints

-- one receives lots of praise and a fair number of complaints

-- three receive little praise but few complaints

And 8 were no good: they had high complaints and little praise.

So if you luck out and always get the 6 good crews, your experience is great. If on the other hand you always get the 8 terrible crews, your experience is terrible.

So Amtrak identified the problem. They don't seem to have been able to *fix* it, however.

What I don’t understand is why people who appear to hate the very concept of a service oriented industry continue to work in a service oriented industry. You'd think that year after year and decade after decade they'd eventually get sick of it. This isn’t simply an Amtrak problem. North American airlines tend to have surprisingly poor service standards as well. Which I suppose might explain why we have so many people who seem to hate the very concept of an organized government doing everything they can to secure a job working inside our government. Watching the news these days makes me wonder if we've become a nation focused almost entirely on shooting ourselves in the foot. Is there a point to any of this? I honestly don't know. It's like I'm in some sort of bizarre Twilight Zone style nightmare where logic has been turned on its head but nobody seems to notice or care.

 

[zepherdude]

I...always enjoy what I order. Service always meets my expectations.

&

I have always enjoyed the meals on all of the western trains.

People who casually admit that it’s virtually impossible to disappoint them will never cease to amaze me. Makes me wonder what it’s like to live life as a proud pushover.

Every single experience of mine has been the complete opposite of what you're describing here. If I didn't know better I might think you were intentionally trolling this thread.

Read the Amtrak PIP for the California Zephyr -- specifically page 4.

There are six crews operating at any given time; there are a total of 14 crews.

At the time, of these crews, 6 were good enough:

-- two receive lots of praise and very few complaints

-- one receives lots of praise and a fair number of complaints

-- three receive little praise but few complaints

And 8 were no good: they had high complaints and little praise.

So if you luck out and always get the 6 good crews, your experience is great. If on the other hand you always get the 8 terrible crews, your experience is terrible.

So Amtrak identified the problem. They don't seem to have been able to *fix* it, however.

What I don’t understand is why people who appear to hate the very concept of a service oriented industry continue to work in a service oriented industry. You'd think that year after year and decade after decade they'd eventually get sick of it. This isn’t simply an Amtrak problem. North American airlines tend to have surprisingly poor service standards as well. Which I suppose might explain why we have so many people who seem to hate the very concept of an organized government doing everything they can to secure a job working inside our government. Watching the news these days makes me wonder if we've become a nation focused almost entirely on shooting ourselves in the foot. Is there a point to any of this? I honestly don't know. It's like I'm in some sort of bizarre Twilight Zone style nightmare where logic has been turned on its head but nobody seems to notice or care

I wonder what it is like just to bitch about everything. You know so much, go to work for Amtrak and fix everything you claim to know everything about. They really need you.