why can't food be better

[Devil's Advocate]

I wonder what it is like just to bitch about everything.

Overt schadenfreude is extremely satisfying and I would recommend it to anyone who is ready to take off the rose colored glasses.

You know so much, go to work for Amtrak and fix everything you claim to know everything about. They really need you.

Your suggestion presumes that...

1. Amtrak can be fixed.

2. Amtrak wants to be fixed.

3. I have any desire to fix Amtrak.

Although I'm a huge proponent of modern passenger rail I see no particular need for Amtrak to be a part of it. Amtrak had four decades to find a way to thrive and they couldn't. That may not be Amtrak's fault but the way I see it trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is akin to insanity. So I ask you, when are we going to stop sugarcoating the mess Amtrak has always been stuck in and consider supporting something else for a change?

Here on AU we are generally led to believe that if we lose Amtrak there will never be another option, but I'm not yet convinced of that. It seems equally likely to me that Amtrak's continued existence as the world's slowest and least advanced passenger rail network among industrialized nations may actually be doing more harm than good at this point. Anytime I bring up passenger rail among the uninitiated I have to stop and explain how it doesn't necessarily have to be just like Amtrak. Except that, so long as Amtrak remains the officially sanctioned passenger rail carrier, maybe it does?

 

[neroden]

What I don’t understand is why people who appear to hate the very concept of a service oriented industry continue to work in a service oriented industry. You'd think that year after year and decade after decade they'd eventually get sick of it. This isn’t simply an Amtrak problem. North American airlines tend to have surprisingly poor service standards as well. Which I suppose might explain why we have so many people who seem to hate the very concept of an organized government doing everything they can to secure a job working inside our government. Watching the news these days makes me wonder if we've become a nation focused almost entirely on shooting ourselves in the foot. Is there a point to any of this? I honestly don't know. It's like I'm in some sort of bizarre Twilight Zone style nightmare where logic has been turned on its head but nobody seems to notice or care.

Well, my current theory is that our country is still mostly run by people who had heavy lead poisoning at birth due to gasoline lead present when they were born. This applies to anyone born in the US from the early 1920s through the mid-1980s, but is much much worse for people born from about 1955-1975. It's also worse for people born in some places than others, thanks to lead being phased in and out at different times in diffrent places, and more cars in some places than others. (Rural was generally better, but obviously anyone near a lead smelter was screwed. California phased out lead faster than other states, and much of the Midwest delayed the phaseout.)

If I'm right, "the kids are all right" and things will get better in general as people who are now under the age of 40 take over the government. The younger the better.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Nerodes theory of youth sounds right! We don't need any more senile 70 year olds as President as has been proven!

 

[JayPea]

Nerodes theory of youth sounds right! We don't need any more senile 70 year olds as President as has been proven!

Ya mean like Hillary or Bernie????? (I'm sorry, Jim, de debil made me do it!!! h34r: h34r: h34r: )

I haven't had that much problem with Amtrak service in general, but have had my moments where the service ranged from pretty bad to absolutely awful. If Amtrak focused on customer service to the extent the grocery store chain I work for does, perhaps things would be better. Ours is a smallish chain based in Spokane and we can't always compete with the the Wal-Marts and mega-grocery chains of the world in price, but we absolutely hammer home the importance of customer service. In fact just last week one of our deli employees had a three-day unpaid :"vacation" due to continued ghastly service. And that is his last chance. One more complaint and he's outta there. (And he is a perfect example of what Neroden is talking about. At 67, he is by far the oldest employee in our store. )

My particular experience with the CZ is limited, just four trips altogether, two from Chicago to Sacramento, one from Chicago to Sparks, and one from Sacramento to Chicago, so the sample is very small, but in all four cases the SCA I had was excellent. No problems there. And the service in the dining car overall has been good, though the first time, in 2004, the server was surly at best. (And he was a young kid! ) And on another, the LSA was nasty at times. She could have been the sister of Miss Polly (the rather infamous example of miserable dining car service from the Texas Eagle). The food, was, well, Amtrak food. Not bad, but not great either. I have reserved my complaints to customer relations to the LSA on the Coast Starlight who, on the one occasion I rode coach on the CS, made it absolutely clear he wanted no part of the great unwashed from the coaches anywhere near the dining car, and the ghastly attendant on the Spokane-Seattle portion of the EB who, when all I wanted was a diet Pepsi, studiously avoided me for about the same amount of time it took for the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, and when she finally did acknowledge my existance, tell me they were out of diet Pepsi. The only thing she was willing to sell me was apple juice, which doesn't me any good because of my diabetes. And when I pointed this out, her response was to tell me in so many words that if I didn't like it to go drink out of the tap. :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: And then she rather nastily informed me I would have to wait for the LSA to get change, and took her sweet time getting the LSA. The topper was the LSA was only so happy to sell the woman behind me a diet Pepsi. DOUBLE :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: . Both the CS incident and the EB incident happened to take place on the same trip. I got a nice little voucher out of that one.

 

[OBS]

Believe it or not, the CZ CSI (customer service) scores (based on the surveys issued to passengers after the trip) have shown the CZ having the best of all LD trains in the last few months (which has been a marked improvement over previous scores). Maybe there is hope yet !?

 

[Cina]

Which I suppose might explain why we have so many people who seem to hate the very concept of an organized government doing everything they can to secure a job working inside our government.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Anyone remember Marvin from the CZ (he often played some cartoon music before making cafe car announcements)? He was great!

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Also one other thing I really hate. The biscuits and croissants are whole wheat instead of white. And there is no option for either wheat or white. And also, only select trains have pancakes.

 

[mlanoue]

Believe it or not, the CZ CSI (customer service) scores (based on the surveys issued to passengers after the trip) have shown the CZ having the best of all LD trains in the last few months (which has been a marked improvement over previous scores). Maybe there is hope yet !?

My wife, daughter and I took the CZ on Christmas day from CHI to EMY and we had a great trip. (There was one weird incident that happened but wasn't related to the diner). It was only the second trip in a sleeper I'd ever taken, and I was prepared to be disappointed with the food, but honestly, it was pretty good overall. Of course it could be better, but we had no complaints, either.

 

[neroden]

To be clear on what I was saying: childhood lead poisoning makes people "dumb and mean" -- also paranoid. Some would have been meaner to start with, some less mean; some would have been smarter to start with, some less smart; it just makes people worse than they would have been otherwise. It was really severe and endemic among Americans who are now older than 40 and younger than 60. Though lead poisoning was also affecting most people older than that and some people younger than that too; most of us probably have a touch of it.

But people born in the the US who are 45-55 right now typically got *massive* doses of lead as children, unless they grew up far away from cars. And I'd expect a lot of them to be in senior management positions in business and government right now. In order to get management which isn't acting stupid and malicious, we may have to wait for them to age out of power.

 

[zepherdude]

I wonder what it is like just to bitch about everything.

Overt schadenfreude is extremely satisfying and I would recommend it to anyone who is ready to take off the rose colored glasses.

You know so much, go to work for Amtrak and fix everything you claim to know everything about. They really need you.

Your suggestion presumes that...

1. Amtrak can be fixed.

2. Amtrak wants to be fixed.

3. I have any desire to fix Amtrak.

Although I'm a huge proponent of modern passenger rail I see no particular need for Amtrak to be a part of it. Amtrak had four decades to find a way to thrive and they couldn't. That may not be Amtrak's fault but the way I see it trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is akin to insanity. So I ask you, when are we going to stop sugarcoating the mess Amtrak has always been stuck in and consider supporting something else for a change?

Here on AU we are generally led to believe that if we lose Amtrak there will never be another option, but I'm not yet convinced of that. It seems equally likely to me that Amtrak's continued existence as the world's slowest and least advanced passenger rail network among industrialized nations may actually be doing more harm than good at this point. Anytime I bring up passenger rail among the uninitiated I have to stop and explain how it doesn't necessarily have to be just like Amtrak. Except that, so long as Amtrak remains the officially sanctioned passenger rail carrier, maybe it does?

I think you need a garden or something else to do besides worry about Amtrak food service. Why do you subject yourself to something so aweful and inferior as Amtrak? The bus is a much better way to go. Buy a pack of cigarettes and Mrs. Wagners Pies and just Look for America! Then there will be nothing to bitch about! Opps.......I bet you'll find something!

 

[MARC Rider]

Rrdude, I remember having used that service on the Broadway Limited back then and loved it.

BTW United Airlines surprised me by serving a steak medallion done medium with a very nice sauce to go with it, on the Houston to Frankfurt 787-9 flight, in Business First class. They have definitely been working on improving their food service and it shows.

Nice to be able to travel Business First class. But what does United serve to coach passengers?

 

[jebr]

Rrdude, I remember having used that service on the Broadway Limited back then and loved it.

BTW United Airlines surprised me by serving a steak medallion done medium with a very nice sauce to go with it, on the Houston to Frankfurt 787-9 flight, in Business First class. They have definitely been working on improving their food service and it shows.

Nice to be able to travel Business First class. But what does United serve to coach passengers?

FlyerTalk has a few meal reviews with photos. Looks like they serve beef or salmon, with the salmon looking acceptable (and if plated as an Amtrak meal, could probably pass for a better-than-normal Amtrak diner meal.)

Even on domestic flights, United is serving a complimentary light snack (stroopwaffel or asian snack mix) along with complimentary beverages. A step above Amtrak's complimentary options in coach (a shot glass of tap water, serve yourself.)

 

[MARC Rider]

To be clear on what I was saying: childhood lead poisoning makes people "dumb and mean" -- also paranoid. Some would have been meaner to start with, some less mean; some would have been smarter to start with, some less smart; it just makes people worse than they would uhave been otherwise. It was really severe and endemic among Americans who are now older than 40 and younger than 60. Though lead poisoning was also affecting most people older than that and some people younger than that too; most of us probably have a touch of it.

But people born in the the US who are 45-55 right now typically got *massive* doses of lead as children, unless they grew up far away from cars. And I'd expect a lot of them to be in senior management positions in business and government right now. In order to get management which isn't acting stupid and malicious, we may have to wait for them to age out of power.

Ah, that explains my boss!!

(Just kidding)

Though, come to think of it, the pre-Baby Boomer bosses I had early in my career stuck up for their staff more than bosses do today. They also seemed more competent, but maybe that was just because they didn't have to manage in the face of scarce and declining resources.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think you need a garden or something else to do besides worry about Amtrak food service. Why do you subject yourself to something so aweful [sic] and inferior as Amtrak? The bus is a much better way to go. Buy a pack of cigarettes and Mrs. Wagners [sic] Pies and just Look for America! Then there will be nothing to bitch about! Opps [sic] .I bet you'll find something!

Amtrak food is hardly worth worrying about but the worse it gets the easier and more enjoyable it is to criticize. I haven't smoked cigarettes since I was five or six but I have smoked shisha on occasion. Just for kicks I tried to make a list of the places I've visited in the US and ran out of steam after listing around 150 locations across twenty states and possessions. Obviously there's still plenty more to see and do but once I began traveling internationally that became my primary focus.

If exploration of Americas defunct manufacturing sector was legal and safe I'd be visiting many more domestic locations. Cruising around St. Louis gave me goosebumps but alas there was no easy or obvious method for exploring most of it without risking exposure to various industrial poisons and vacation altering arrest. Seems like a missed opportunity for growing a unique form of tourism in hard hit areas and providing a teachable moment for Americas youth.

Looks like they serve beef or salmon, with the salmon looking acceptable (and if plated as an Amtrak meal, could probably pass for a better-than-normal Amtrak diner meal.)

United's international coach food has been pretty bad for over a decade now. Nothing I've seen looks substantially improved in any obvious manner. That being said, their snack packs aren't half bad and go well with a cocktail or two.

Even on domestic flights, United is serving a complimentary light snack (stroopwaffel or asian snack mix) along with complimentary beverages. A step above Amtrak's complimentary options in coach (a shot glass of tap water, serve yourself.)

Wow, so full service legacy airlines are finally trying to claw their way back up to the reduced service levels of low cost carriers?

 

[Skyline]

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

Congress under funds Amtrak and then hollers "Look how bad it is!"

It's intentional, and a lot more Republicans than Democrats are guilty. If they can sabotage train satisfaction, fewer people will ride, and then they can point to decreased ridership as justification to make further cuts.

 

[FormerOBS]

Simple, because the government doesn't take Amtrak seriously, despite the fact more and more people are riding it. They also don't have the guts to properly fund it. I would say something much worst then that, but I'm not looking to get in trouble. Give Amtrak $10 billion a year in subsidies and I guarantee it you'll see a different system and better food being supplied.

Congress under funds Amtrak and then hollers "Look how bad it is!"

It's intentional, and a lot more Republicans than Democrats are guilty. If they can sabotage train satisfaction, fewer people will ride, and then they can point to decreased ridership as justification to make further cuts.

'Tain't rocket science, McGee.

Tom

 

[EB_OBS]

Also, as was said one must acknowledge how much they are paid. They are paid not just a living wage but a very good, some would say even upper middle class wage. They don't need the tips to live off of as would be the case in a regular restaurant.

Just some comments to many posts from this topic.

1. Amtrak waiters make $40k to $60K salary, depending upon seniority, regular or extra-board and OT. Quite far from upper middle-class. They have slightly better retirement than social security and pretty good health benefits.

 

[EB_OBS]

2. Raw ingredients I'm aware of on LD dining cars

Eggs, and you can still get fried eggs on the Empire Builder as far as I know.

Pancakes

Oatmeal

Hashbrowns are shredded and dehydrated. Reconstituted and cooked onboard.

Steaks

Fish

Baked potatoes

Vegetables, bagged and steamed or heated in hot water onboard

Rice pilaf, it used to be Uncle Ben's. Not sure if it still is.

 

[EB_OBS]

I agree that service is inconsistent on Amtrak, both in the diners and passenger cars. Believe me it drives me nuts too.

It baffles me why Amtrak can't or won't put actual supervision on the trains with real ability to correct and discipline the bad apples.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

2. Raw ingredients I'm aware of on LD dining cars

Eggs, and you can still get fried eggs on the Empire Builder as far as I know.

Pancakes

Oatmeal

Hashbrowns are shredded and dehydrated. Reconstituted and cooked onboard.

Steaks

Fish

Baked potatoes

Vegetables, bagged and steamed or heated in hot water onboard

Thanks for this!

Other than seeing the eggs being scrambled on a single level dining car a few years ago I really wasn't sure about some of the other dishes.

 

[EB_OBS]

I also don't believe those numbers $$$ published that food service lost and loses many millions of dollars every year. I don't doubt that there is loss, but I do believe that Amtrak accounting does not properly allocate the true amount of dollars from the sleeper fares to the dining car.

Additionally due to FDA and Amtrak food safety standards AND the lack of REAL professional training AND ridiculous accounting/inventory control, Amtrak purchases TOO MUCH product individually packaged. The worst possible way to buy in bulk. Every steak is individually vacuum sealed as is every fish filet, chicken etc. This is almost 100% due to one-to-one counting of sales to inventory and charging the LSA and chef for any discrepancies. This charging has changed some but the system has not.

 

[FormerOBS]

Also, as was said one must acknowledge how much they are paid. They are paid not just a living wage but a very good, some would say even upper middle class wage. They don't need the tips to live off of as would be the case in a regular restaurant.

Just some comments to many posts from this topic.

1. Amtrak waiters make $40k to $60K salary, depending upon seniority, regular or extra-board and OT. Quite far from upper middle-class. They have slightly better retirement than social security and pretty good health benefits.

I understand the $40K figure. It is possible, and not an unreasonable income for a career employee in today's economy. But I don't know where the $60K figure comes from. I never managed that, including tips and overtime. There are a few masochists out there who make extra trips whenever possible and accrue lots of overtime, but they are the extremely rare exception. They are usually very young and full of energy. Most normal adults would wear themselves out, make themselves sick, and become miserable human beings if they worked that much.

YMMV.

Tom

 

[FormerOBS]

I agree that service is inconsistent on Amtrak, both in the diners and passenger cars. Believe me it drives me nuts too.

It baffles me why Amtrak can't or won't put actual supervision on the trains with real ability to correct and discipline the bad apples.

As far as I know, the Auto Train was the last Amtrak train to have a supervisor (chief) on every trip. In the recent past, that train has often run one way or round trip with no chief. This is an operation with 2 diners, 2 lounges, 6 or 7 sleepers, a new business class service, and a busy coach section, a service crew of over 20, and sometimes no onboard supervision! It is a great credit to the Auto Train's under-appreciated onboard service crews that the train continues to be successful.

Tom

 

[EB_OBS]

The auto-train though is not a true comparison to the rest of the LD service. The auto-train crew are hand picked, the cream of the crop so to say. Any Amtrak employee cannot exercise their seniority to bump onto an auto-train job.