Why is Amtrak discounting Auto Train fares?

[MIrailfan]

during high demand?

 

[Sidney]

That sale ended on Friday. At $129 for a roomette that was quite a bargain. It was Southbound through June 30 and Northbound through March 31. I booked a trip in February. I've been on every LD train multiple times,but never the AT. At $337 total it was over $100 cheaper than a roomette on the Silvers and the bonus of real food.

Amtrak had many specials this past year to celebrate their 50th year. I took advantage of the $299 rail pass and a $29 Acela from BWI to Boston.

 

[Ziv]

I know I should know the answer to this, but can I ride the AutoTrain if it is just me and I don't drive a car?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I know I should know the answer to this, but can I ride the AutoTrain if it is just me and I don't drive a car?

No

 

[user 14106]

They are blacking out peak days such as holiday weekends during the sale. There is no secret ploy to sabotage the Auto Train - management likes the Auto Train.

 

[pennyk]

I know I should know the answer to this, but can I ride the AutoTrain if it is just me and I don't drive a car?

However, if you have a friend with a car who is traveling on the train, you can link your reservation with that of your friend. Your reservation must have a vehicle associated with it.

 

[Ziv]

I live 45 minutes from Lorton (30 minutes from WAS) and I fly to Florida every other year or so, then rent a car. But I have never considered one of the Silvers or the Auto Train until now. If I had my druthers I would take the Auto Train for the experience. It is a 300 mile drive from Sanford to my usual hangout at Key Largo, which is a bit long but not terrible. And I would save the money on not having to rent a car and on the usurious parking rate that they have at Dulles...
It is weird but I have never thought of myself as a candidate for the Auto Train but it would work fairly well for me. It would work a lot better if the drop off point was further South but that is a quibble, and it works better where it is for the majority of people that use the service, I would imagine. I always thought of it as a service for Snowbirds and families.
And I missed the sale!

 

[me_little_me]

Amtrak wants to keep the AutoTrain like they should have been keeping the rest of the LD trains - as full as possible because empty rooms and unused cars generate no revenue and the additional costs associated with filling those rooms and cars is much smaller than the revenue.

Since management doesn't care about the other LD trains (other than worrying about keeping congress off its back), they chose to sideline many of their cars and go to three times a week back in 2000 while laying off crew rather than offering deals and keeping employees working.

Remember, the AutoTrain has its own set of cars independent of the rest of the LD network so Amtrak can keep the NEC and the Autotrain and dump the LD network without a problem. If it weren't for congressional "interference", IMHO, they would have done so when Anderson came in. It was a perfect opportunity with an administration which wanted to get rid of Amtrak, management could have compromised and dumped the LD while placating the NEC states and Florida. Anderson's mistake (about as stupid an idea as one could imagine) was the Southwest Chief's bus bridge not long after an agreement had been made to fix the Raton Pass problem. It riled up congress.

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak wants to keep the AutoTrain like they should have been keeping the rest of the LD trains - as full as possible because empty rooms and unused cars generate no revenue and the additional costs associated with filling those rooms and cars is much smaller than the revenue.

Since management doesn't care about the other LD trains (other than worrying about keeping congress off its back), they chose to sideline many of their cars and go to three times a week back in 2000 while laying off crew rather than offering deals and keeping employees working.

Remember, the AutoTrain has its own set of cars independent of the rest of the LD network so Amtrak can keep the NEC and the Autotrain and dump the LD network without a problem. If it weren't for congressional "interference", IMHO, they would have done so when Anderson came in. It was a perfect opportunity with an administration which wanted to get rid of Amtrak, management could have compromised and dumped the LD while placating the NEC states and Florida. Anderson's mistake (about as stupid an idea as one could imagine) was the Southwest Chief's bus bridge not long after an agreement had been made to fix the Raton Pass problem. It riled up congress.

Anderson/Gardner didn’t want to drop the Network entirely but undoubtedly wanted to redirect funds from some routes such as the Chief and reconstruct the network to be more focused on city pairs. Some of the current network would have remained Auto Train being one of them but probably not all if they got their wish list.

 

[me_little_me]

Anderson/Gardner didn’t want to drop the Network entirely but undoubtedly wanted to redirect funds from some routes such as the Chief and reconstruct the network to be more focused on city pairs. Some of the current network would have remained Auto Train being one of them but probably not all if they got their wish list.

We are all entitled to our opinions. But I don't remember management referring to the Auto Train as an "experiential" train like the rest of the LD network. And Anderson didn't try to redirect funds form the Southwest Chief, he tried to destroy it because that is exactly what a bus bridge would have done and he knew that.
Had Amtrak wanted to promote city pairs, they would have started one to demonstrate how much better they would be than LD but not one was added. Management wanted to eliminate the LD service and THEN think about adding city pairs. After all, when they cut back all the LD trains to 3 days of the week, did they make ANY attempt to put the unused cars to work on preparing for a city pair by having test runs? No, they just put them all in long term storage with no maintenance. The only thing they started was another NEC train, running overnight, and couldn't even make that look like a quality product.

 

[user 14106]

We are all entitled to our opinions. But I don't remember management referring to the Auto Train as an "experiential" train like the rest of the LD network. And Anderson didn't try to redirect funds form the Southwest Chief, he tried to destroy it because that is exactly what a bus bridge would have done and he knew that.
Had Amtrak wanted to promote city pairs, they would have started one to demonstrate how much better they would be than LD but not one was added. Management wanted to eliminate the LD service and THEN think about adding city pairs. After all, when they cut back all the LD trains to 3 days of the week, did they make ANY attempt to put the unused cars to work on preparing for a city pair by having test runs? No, they just put them all in long term storage with no maintenance. The only thing they started was another NEC train, running overnight, and couldn't even make that look like a quality product.

That’s what I was referring to by redirecting funds - IE break up the route or alter it so money could be used for more corridor centric service. Some routes would have been lost in their current form for sure the Chief being the first and probably others. Though they wouldn’t have dropped every single long distance train. Some in the east would have remained in some form and they pretty much indicated they would have kept the Zephyr, Builder, and Coast Starlight but probably more as a VIA rail Canadian like service with more expensive land cruise like amenities but possibly less frequencies which is when they were referring to them as experiential routes and they occasionally also referred to keeping “appropriate” long distance routes. I’m not defending or advocating the approach - but this is just my opinion on what it was. I think it was somewhere in between eliminating the network entirely and keeping it completely intact. I think it was more about trying to see if congress would tweak the network to allow them to try to get around section 209 to trial some service among city pairs they liked - the Chief was attacked due to the segment of track only Amtrak runs on. The biggest problem with the corridor plan of course is that eventually some of these states have to kick in money for operations and some of them I am skeptical would ever pay for passenger rail absent political changes. Now that congress has given gardner another method in the IIJA to try to build his corridor service I'm hoping they’ll cut out butchering of the network.

Will leave it there at least in this thread as I’m sort of getting us off topic.

 

[Amtrak709]

I am just curious about this. Over the days when Amtrak offered $129 roomette on Auto Train, if you lived near an auto train point (Sanford or Deland or Winter Park or Orlando or Washington DC area) it was--because of high sleeping care fares on the Silvers--considerably cheaper to buy the roomette fare + say "a motorcycle" fare--maybe even an auto fare. CONSIDERABLY! Suppose you were a railfan and just wanted to go for a train ride. I know you must have a vehicle and a passenger to book. Suppose a passenger shows up in Sanford with a fully paid ticket without the vehicle (claiming some such difficulty with the vehicle: "aliens stole it" or "the dog ate it" or some such--I doubt one would tell the truth), do you suppose they would be allowed or denied boarding??
I know that there are far more important issues here in this forum to be considered, but I am just curious.

 

[Qapla]

Even if all you wanted to do is ride to Florida and back, why not just take the car and let it ride both ways - who says you actually have to drive it any distance once you get to Sandford

 

[Sidney]

As mentioned,during the sale you could go from Sanford to Lorton for as little as $337. I haven't done a roomette on the Silvers for a few years because of the cost. Because of that sale I will experience the Auto Train for the first time after 33 years of riding and get a Florida trip in the winter. Add the bonus of traditional dining and it's a win win situation.

 

[me_little_me]

I am just curious about this. Over the days when Amtrak offered $129 roomette on Auto Train, if you lived near an auto train point (Sanford or Deland or Winter Park or Orlando or Washington DC area) it was--because of high sleeping care fares on the Silvers--considerably cheaper to buy the roomette fare + say "a motorcycle" fare--maybe even an auto fare. CONSIDERABLY! Suppose you were a railfan and just wanted to go for a train ride. I know you must have a vehicle and a passenger to book. Suppose a passenger shows up in Sanford with a fully paid ticket without the vehicle (claiming some such difficulty with the vehicle: "aliens stole it" or "the dog ate it" or some such--I doubt one would tell the truth), do you suppose they would be allowed or denied boarding??
I know that there are far more important issues here in this forum to be considered, but I am just curious.

Think of what you are asking for - the right to displace someone who wants to use the Auto Train for what it was intended - bring their vehicle along with them. They can't take a Silver train and put their car in the bag-dorm or baggage car or even in the overhead compartment. They only have one choice, And Amtrak gets money for both the room and the car transportation so why give away one without making money on the other?
IMHO, Amtrak's policy is perfectly justified. It's a specific service for a specific clientèle. I would hope they would deny boarding to those that don't qualify but at least refund some of the money if you provided evidence (a police or accident report or a towing bill) given that it occurred after it was practical for you to call and cancel.

 

[Amtrak709]

Thanks, Qapla. The thought of letting the car "just ride" never quite occurred to me. As a railfan for my 74 years of life, I am "the one who" just wants to get on the trains and ride. I lived in Daytona Beach for 34 years in the 1970's, 80's, and 90's. The overriding factor now is the extremely high cost of rooms on the conventional Silvers (now riding the Crescent). If there has been a sale like the recent one back then (even the bedrooms were a great price), it would have been a good choice. Thanks again!

 

[Amtrak709]

Think of what you are asking for - the right to displace someone who wants to use the Auto Train for what it was intended - bring their vehicle along with them. They can't take a Silver train and put their car in the bag-dorm or baggage car or even in the overhead compartment. They only have one choice, And Amtrak gets money for both the room and the car transportation so why give away one without making money on the other?
IMHO, Amtrak's policy is perfectly justified. It's a specific service for a specific clientèle. I would hope they would deny boarding to those that don't qualify but at least refund some of the money if you provided evidence (a police or accident report or a towing bill) given that it occurred after it was practical for you to call and cancel.

With all due respect, you missed my point! I am not advocating not paying for the cost of the vehicle. Simply put, the room + vehicle on the Auto Train was considerably less that the room alone on the Silvers. The fact that no vehicle would be transported has NO being on revenue! In fact, they may make a few extra dollars.

 

[Amtrak709]

Thanks, Qapla. The thought of letting the car "just ride" never quite occurred to me. As a railfan for my 74 years of life, I am "the one who" just wants to get on the trains and ride. I lived in Daytona Beach for 34 years in the 1970's, 80's, and 90's. The overriding factor now is the extremely high cost of rooms on the conventional Silvers (now riding the Crescent). If there has been a sale like the recent one back then (even the bedrooms were a great price), it would have been a good choice. Thanks again!

Qupla you got me thinking. In my 50+ years and 1/4 million miles on Amtrak, I have been point to point on every one of the LD trains, every one of the medium and short distance trains with the exception of BOS to Maine; the exception to long distance is AUTO TRAIN. In the 34 years I lived in Daytona Beach, I wish it had occurred to me just to drive to SFA with my car--let the car and me just ride and return. Had always wanted to travel on the Auto Train even in the days when it was a private company before Amtrak, but just never did. Anyone out there ever do that?: you and your car board and load, get off at the other end, and return same day?? I know it might be considered a wasteful use of resources, but to a train fan or rail buff, not so much.

 

[tgstubbs1]

The reason for the required accompanying vehicle is a legal nod to the trains' charter or mission, which is for freight. Passengers are allowed to accompany their cargo.

It could possibly even be a bicycle.
I don't know why Amtrak should care as long as you pay both the passenger fare and the freight charges. If the freight weighs less than their definition of a standard auto then they are profiting from the deal.
It may be something someone needs to test to find out how they react.

 

[Qapla]

Since the Auto Train gets into SFA around 9 AM and the return train doesn't leave until 4 PM - it would give you time to drive into Sanford and eat lunch - then return to the station for them to load your car.

 

[tgstubbs1]

Since the Auto Train gets into SFA around 9 AM and the return train doesn't leave until 4 PM - it would give you time to drive into Sanford and eat lunch - then return to the station for them to load your car.

The Thousand Dollar Hamburger!

 

[me_little_me]

The Thousand Dollar Hamburger!

No. The $15 burger between halves of the $1,000 ride!

 

[20th Century Rider]

Thanks, Qapla. The thought of letting the car "just ride" never quite occurred to me. As a railfan for my 74 years of life, I am "the one who" just wants to get on the trains and ride. I lived in Daytona Beach for 34 years in the 1970's, 80's, and 90's. The overriding factor now is the extremely high cost of rooms on the conventional Silvers (now riding the Crescent). If there has been a sale like the recent one back then (even the bedrooms were a great price), it would have been a good choice. Thanks again!

That sounds familiar! I too am a rail fan as you can see on the signature below... and at 74 I'm just getting started!

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak's contractual arrangements with CSX regarding the Auto Train are separate than their prevailing agreement regarding normal Amtrak passenger service. Amtrak is not contractually allowed to ferry passengers on this route without a vehicle as defined by the contract. One could simply rent a vehicle, bring it aboard, and return the rental on the other side (and fly home) if one wanted to ride just one way.

 

[west point]

Explain the mileage discrepancy to the rental company. Hertz might charge you with theft!