Will full service dining ever return to the Western trains?

[Nick Farr]

Delta first class was fabulous a few years ago. The cabin attendant couldn't have been more enthusiastic. He really liked his job. Food was very good and they served several very good wines. Amtrak, by comparison, treats first class paeengers like Greyhound passengers or worse.

Delta first class was great for me right up until. December of 2019 when I took my last flight.

Probably won't be flying anytime soon though.

I definitely agree that most Amtrak service staff treat passengers like inconvenient cargo. However, there are really exceptional SCAs and some LSAs and conductors that really love their work and enjoy serving passengers.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I agree they should have this option, but the excuse is limited/lower quality refrigeration space.

Iceberg lettuce will keep forever in a container in a wide variety of settings. Entree salads of any decent quality will not keep for much more than 48 hours.

The solution is simple: Get a service provider that can resupply fresh food along the route.

No that’s not an excuse. I’ve had many good quality entree salads on Amtrak. There is no need to resuplly food. Fresh greens don’t spoil in 2 days.

 

[20th Century Rider]

View attachment 18462lm not quite sure what this character is saying. Something to do with dinner

This is what it means... "Oh no! Not another flex meal! Yuk! Gag me with a spoon!"

 

[flitcraft]

I definitely agree that most Amtrak service staff treat passengers like inconvenient cargo....

The expression used in the airline business to describe passengers is "self-loading cargo."

 

[Nick Farr]

No that’s not an excuse. I’ve had many good quality entree salads on Amtrak. There is no need to resuplly food. Fresh greens don’t spoil in 2 days.

Fresh greens dont spoil in 2 days, but prepackaged entree salads will definitely go bad over long distances at different altitudes with sub-par equipment.

It's not the greens, it's how they're packaged/sealed and what they're sealed with. You could store a bag of mixed greens for a few days when salads were prepared fresh--but that's a lot harder to do when salads just get pulled out of the refrigerator where space is at a premium.

I mean, it would work for an entree salad of iceberg lettuce and cherry tomatoes, but who wants that?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Fresh greens dont spoil in 2 days, but prepackaged entree salads will definitely go bad over long distances at different altitudes with sub-par equipment.

It's not the greens, it's how they're packaged/sealed and what they're sealed with. You could store a bag of mixed greens for a few days when salads were prepared fresh--but that's a lot harder to do when salads just get pulled out of the refrigerator where space is at a premium.

I mean, it would work for an entree salad of iceberg lettuce and cherry tomatoes, but who wants that?

There is no lack of refrigerator space on Amtrak dining Cars. Why are you making stuff up?

 

[20th Century Rider]

I mean, it would work for an entree salad of iceberg lettuce and cherry tomatoes, but who wants that?

Nobody. Really! A 3" diameter culinary masterpiece.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Fresh greens dont spoil in 2 days, but prepackaged entree salads will definitely go bad over long distances at different altitudes with sub-par equipment.

It's not the greens, it's how they're packaged/sealed and what they're sealed with. You could store a bag of mixed greens for a few days when salads were prepared fresh--but that's a lot harder to do when salads just get pulled out of the refrigerator where space is at a premium.

I mean, it would work for an entree salad of iceberg lettuce and cherry tomatoes, but who wants that?

If you have ever shopped the deli of Walmart, they have a wide variety of really good packaged salads and they are large enough to feed 2. And they run about $5-6! They have a few days of fridge life as well; so something like that would easily survive the longest Amtrak haul.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

But did you ever get a chance to eat the Swanson fried chicken tv dinners? I must have been 6; but just loved them; and I do remember the tastes. I accepted the powdery potatoes because they were so yummy good with the taste of real butter. My respectful disagreement when comparing them to the flex meals.

But ok... 'calling a spade a spade,' the salisbury steak was not good.

Compared to the utterly bleak Amtrak flex meals, the Swanson fried chicken dinner scores a 10 while each and every flex meals score a"0"!!! BTW... you can't get a TV dinner today of the same taste and quality. Yum yum yum!

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YES!!!! Those things were absolute classics! The 4-banger trays with the tiny dessert portion were the ultimate; I only wish I had saved some of the trays. Now if you want to go to the other end of the scale and experience nasty, you would have discovered the Libbyland kid's meals, including Safari Supper, Sundown Supper, Sea Diver's Dinner and Pirate Picnic. They made the slop being served on Amtrak today top shelf!

 

[Nick Farr]

If you have ever shopped the deli of Walmart, they have a wide variety of really good packaged salads and they are large enough to feed 2. And they run about $5-6! They have a few days of fridge life as well; so something like that would easily survive the longest Amtrak haul.

Those are in a humidity controlled cooler that's not available on the dining car, in larger more specialized packaging--and probably don't sit in there for more than 3 days.

The flex meals can survive the trip from Chicago and back and probably longer than that.

There is probably a way to do prepackaged salads but I'm not sure they could survive in the equipment in the car past the second overnight.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The equipment didn’t change. Nothing changed. There is absolutely nothing keeping Amtrak from offering an entree salad and/or sandwich option.

I’m certain there is an entree salad that Amtrak can offer that has the same use by date as the side salad and fresh fruit cup. Even the cafe car offers entree salads, or has in the past.

 

[Sauve850]

How long were the flights? They usually have meals on flights over 1,000 miles but I don't know how COVID changed that.

4 1/2 hours. CTL to SLC is the best example. West Palm Beach to CTL also nothing but thats a 2 hr 600 mile type flight. I was notified in advance. Last leg was SLC to JAC only a 40 minute flight so never anything on that leg.

 

[Qapla]

We should hope Amtrak doesn't decide to use MRE's in the next "upgrade" of the dining fare ...

 

[me_little_me]

YES!!!! Those things were absolute classics! The 4-banger trays with the tiny dessert portion were the ultimate; I only wish I had saved some of the trays. Now if you want to go to the other end of the scale and experience nasty, you would have discovered the Libbyland kid's meals, including Safari Supper, Sundown Supper, Sea Diver's Dinner and Pirate Picnic. They made the slop being served on Amtrak today top shelf!

Please STOP giving Amtrak new ideas for flex meals. It is very inconsiderate to your fellow AUers.

I can already see Amtrak management faces simultaneously lighting up at the idea yet red in embarrassment at not having thought it up themselves.

 

[20th Century Rider]

YES!!!! Those things were absolute classics! The 4-banger trays with the tiny dessert portion were the ultimate; I only wish I had saved some of the trays. Now if you want to go to the other end of the scale and experience nasty, you would have discovered the Libbyland kid's meals, including Safari Supper, Sundown Supper, Sea Diver's Dinner and Pirate Picnic. They made the slop being served on Amtrak today top shelf!

I admit that the libby land adventures and liver loaf meals don't look that great... but really... it's a stretch of the imagination to refer to Amtrak 1st class dining top shelf. If you compare side by side, anything and everything looks more appealing than the tasteless flex meals... but to be fair, you can save the slightly melted plastic carcinogenic plate and use it as a frisbee!
Neat-o! Cool!

 

[MrNews]

The reality is that Amtrak downgraded it's entire dining experience to save money. I assume they operate passenger service at a huge loss, and are striving to cut their losses. Step one: cut the least-used (or biggest loss) routes. Step two: cut staff. Step three: reduce the expense of carrying self-loading cargo.
Yes, the food is a shadow of its former self, but it's still fun eating while watching the countryside roll by outside large windows. And it's still better than typical airline chow. I will miss the experience I had on my first overnight trip on the Silver Star to NYP ten years ago, enjoying the steak, and having a server who, when I couldn't decide which dessert to have, said "No worries, I'll bring both." {sigh} The good old days are also both.

 

[Asher]

Nick Farr says,
The solution is simple: Get a service provider that can resupply fresh food along the route
I’d agree except, simple only if money is no object. We seem to have a system providing a service we all enjoy, that is running on fumes. I can get by without Caviar or some kind of Chefs Salad created to my personal specifications. We all look for the best deal when planning a trip, I guess it boils down to, if you want to dance to the music you have to pay the piper.
I’ll stick with the Iceberg.

 

[Willbridge]

Even 1 year ago! imagine 10 years from now we will be talking about the good days when you could order any drink and have it served in a real glass when flying. People will look at us as if we had said you used to be able to smoke in an airplane! Ha.

There's an indie movie about post-WWII Dutch mail order brides going to New Zealand. The film has them flying in a beautifully restored KLM prop plane. To further establish the period, the stewardess comes around to offer cigarettes to the passengers. The audience in the small art theater groaned or tittered audibly and there was a lot of whispering as old-timers explained that, yes, airlines used to do that.

 

[20th Century Rider]

The reality is that Amtrak downgraded it's entire dining experience to save money. I assume they operate passenger service at a huge loss, and are striving to cut their losses. Step one: cut the least-used (or biggest loss) routes. Step two: cut staff. Step three: reduce the expense of carrying self-loading cargo.
Yes, the food is a shadow of its former self, but it's still fun eating while watching the countryside roll by outside large windows. And it's still better than typical airline chow. I will miss the experience I had on my first overnight trip on the Silver Star to NYP ten years ago, enjoying the steak, and having a server who, when I couldn't decide which dessert to have, said "No worries, I'll bring both." {sigh} The good old days are also both.

Amtrak's first class dining experience - daily plan is here. So on the CZ you would get L & D the first day, BLD the second day, and BL the third day. Connecting to the Cardinal? Then you would begin with D on the third day, and BLD the fourth day. Almost similar on the return. Imagine the monotony of it all!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I can get by without Caviar or some kind of Chefs Salad created to my personal specifications. We all look for the best deal when planning a trip, I guess it boils down to, if you want to dance to the music you have to pay the piper.

Nobody is asking for that. I simply said an entree salad should be a choice. Ironically when “contemporary dining” started it was nothing but entree salads.

Anyone looking for the best deal isn’t going to choose an Amtrak sleeping car. Period.

 

[Asher]

CZ said,
Anyone looking for the best deal isn’t going to choose an Amtrak sleeping car. Period! You're correct, I should have said lowest bucket on Amtrak, that's what I'm always looking for. Anyhow, I wasn't referring to your post, I guess it did infringe though. Sorry about that.

 

[Larry H.]

When you consider that some store bought frozen dinners are pretty decent while others to me are not. They why can't they at least buy from the manufacture ones that are decent. We get a Marie Callender chicken with pasta and broccoli that is quite tasty, or some stoffers dinners are very good. Its not rocket science just takes someone who cares about the food who buys it. Evidently that is not a consideration from the few new meals I have had on the City of New Orleans the past couple years.

Its interesting to read the Dining by Rail book and see all the menus and how they were prepared. Some of them took hours and hours with lots of high carb and high sugar ingredients but they probably tasted wonderful. I have yet to try any of the recipes my self mainly because so many are complicated with lots of ingredients and some things that take a long time to make like sauces ect. Obviously the railroads considered the passengers food experience's to be among the most important way to attract riders. Considering what we now read here that still is true. It would be interesting to know how many once devoted rail travelers have given up on Amtrak, I know I am very close to it.

 

[Rasputin]

Well I haven't given up on Amtrak by any means. I just have no place that I want or need to go while the virus is prevalent. I have "thoughts" of future travel but that is all they are at this point. No plans to travel in the foreseeable future.

When the virus is no longer prevalent or is under control, I plan to stick my head out of the cave and see what is going on at that time. If Amtrak is back to serving traditional dining I will probably travel by Amtrak long distance trains. If they are serving contemporary dining or flexible dining over multiple days, I will probably go with Southwest Airlines. I can pretty well put up with anything by plane, bus or Acela for a few hours as long as I get to where I want to go relatively quickly.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You could store a bag of mixed greens for a few days when salads were prepared fresh--but that's a lot harder to do when salads just get pulled out of the refrigerator where space is at a premium. I mean, it would work for an entree salad of iceberg lettuce and cherry tomatoes, but who wants that?

In the past I would have agreed but Amazon and Whole Foods seem to have figured it out. So have several restaurant supply services. Even my meat and pantry-focused regional supermarket gets it right some of the time. About half of their salad kits will last another 3-4 days at home while the other half are already wilting and browning on the store shelf. So far as I can tell the longevity of each kit seems to be specific to the processing plant and/or distribution system rather than the ingredients themselves.

 

[DCAKen]

How long were the flights? They usually have meals on flights over 1,000 miles but I don't know how COVID changed that.

AA currently only serves meals on flights longer than 4.5 hours or 2,200 miles