Will full service dining ever return to the Western trains?

[Dakota 400]

The reviews are easily found on forums like Flyertalk and AirlineMeals.net.

You are correct about that. The reviews on AirlineMeals.net made for interesting reading. I really do think the bottom of the barrel was reached when one could pick up a bagged meal from a cooler as one entered the jetway.

 

[jiml]

You are correct about that. The reviews on AirlineMeals.net made for interesting reading. I really do think the bottom of the barrel was reached when one could pick up a bagged meal from a cooler as one entered the jetway.

The infamous AA Bistro Bag.

 

[tgstubbs1]

I have always enjoyed traveling by train but I am not about to spend $1000 plus on a long distance multiple-day Amtrak trip and receive pathetic food and service. I will gladly fly at a fraction of the cost and have more money to spend at my destination. And I don't really care whether the airline gives me any food or drink since it normally is a flight for only a few hours and I can eat before I board or at my destination.

True. A multi day train trip is more similar to a ocean going cruise than a short plane ride.

On most cruises there is luxury cuisine but on a ferry trip or if you travel on a cargo ship you get more everyday type food service. I understand on a cargo ship passengers usually eat with the crew, which is probably ample but kind of what they serve in a factory cafeteria.

 

[Dakota 400]

The infamous AA Bistro Bag.

Maybe that is one reason I preferred flying on Delta afterwards?

 

[tgstubbs1]

I have been on very short flights that served something, which has surprised me more than once. Usually I will get something at the airport before boarding anyway, so if I get a snack or wrap, small sandwich, whatever, I'm ok with that.

They started serving food on airlines to keep people occupied, and a little distracted, because so many people were afraid of flying. It became a major selling point in the '60s because regulation fares meant competing airlines were otherwise selling the exact same thing for the exact same price.
Now they have budget airlines with budget prices charging for cokes and peanuts, or charters without any real service at all. Less hassle for the airlines and more efficient use of space on the plane than a galley. Plenty of options at the food courts at the airport so you can get whatever kind of food you want.

Trains need a way to actually feed people three squares a day on LD trains.

 

[ehbowen]

They started serving food on airlines to keep people occupied, and a little distracted, because so many people were afraid of flying. It became a major selling point in the '60s because regulation fares meant competing airlines were otherwise selling the exact same thing for the exact same price.

Keep in mind, also, that the nascent airlines in the '30s and '40s were competing against the very mature passenger rail network in which 'loss-leader' premium food service was essentially a given. These days, when the wheel has turned...what is Amtrak competing against? Peanuts and a third of a Coke?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

These days, when the wheel has turned...what is Amtrak competing against? Peanuts and a third of a Coke?

For me Amtrak is competing against a gin and tonic (or 2 ) and either a quality snack like a cheese and fruit plate, warmed nuts, or a complete meal if the flight is long enough to justify it. (Of course Covid has changed the airline service as well..)

September 14 -
Amtrak Chicago to LAX via Amtrak Roomette = $623
Airlines Chicago to LAX via Coach = $75 (AA and United)
Airlines Chicago to LAX via 1st Class = $358 United non-stop or $297 American with one stop.

 

[ehbowen]

For me Amtrak is competing against a gin and tonic (or 2 ) and either a quality snack like a cheese and fruit plate, warmed nuts, or a complete meal if the flight is long enough to justify it. (Of course Covid has changed the airline service as well..)

September 14 -
Amtrak Chicago to LAX via Amtrak Roomette = $623
Airlines Chicago to LAX via Coach = $75 (AA and United)
Airlines Chicago to LAX via 1st Class = $358 United non-stop or $297 American with one stop.

Well, I've taken exactly one R/T nonstop flight (IAH-ORF-IAH, Continental, Sep 2009) and one two-leg one way flight (FCA-SEA; 3 day layover; SEA-IAH; Alaska Air, March 2014) since 9/11. On the former I got a small snack pack each way; on the latter nothing at all that I can recall. After the Continental flight I exchanged my OnePass miles (which had been accumulating since 1985) for AGR points; good trade!

 

[tgstubbs1]

I guess they just want to sustain you til the end of the flight, then you can keel over!

I remember a menu with snacks on a flight, Gardettos and stuff like that. Nothing really substantial though.

 

[user 14106]

I have always enjoyed traveling by train but I am not about to spend $1000 plus on a long distance multiple-day Amtrak trip and receive pathetic food and service. I will gladly fly at a fraction of the cost and have more money to spend at my destination. And I don't really care whether the airline gives me any food or drink since it normally is a flight for only a few hours and I can eat before I board or at my destination.

All fine and good if you like flying and prefer air travel absent the food. I guess all of us that won't fly are somewhat a captive audience.

 

[Chicoan]

I hope that some of you with long memories would help me with this: in discussing the current food-and-drink status with a friend, a memory popped up of drinking REALLY bad wine on Amtrak years ago. It would have been out west, possibly on CA-supported trains or LD. The wine I believe was from Chile. I had it a few times, and recall thnking it was so bad that there had to be some kind of contractual malfeasance Anyone remember this, especially about what years it was?

 

[user 14106]

All fine and good if you like flying and prefer air travel absent the food. I guess all of us that won't fly are somewhat a captive audience.

Don't get me wrong though - while I may be a captive audience not everyone is and for those prospective new riders looking for an experience the downgraded dining will undoubtedly turn away some. Cracker Barrel food is still better than a TV dinner.

 

[Willbridge]

I hope that some of you with long memories would help me with this: in discussing the current food-and-drink status with a friend, a memory popped up of drinking REALLY bad wine on Amtrak years ago. It would have been out west, possibly on CA-supported trains or LD. The wine I believe was from Chile. I had it a few times, and recall thinking it was so bad that there had to be some kind of contractual malfeasance Anyone remember this, especially about what years it was?

I think this happened several times on the Coast Starlight. I remember a SLM>KFS business trip before Superliners. Outside the window were some of the most wonderful food crops growing. Inside the train were plastic packages from Back East and I promised myself that when we got going on Willamette Valley trains we'd have some regional items. My successors succeeded in that. Amtrak meals have gone up and down over the five decades since, reaching new depths recently.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I have always enjoyed traveling by train but I am not about to spend $1000 plus on a long distance multiple-day Amtrak trip and receive pathetic food and service. I will gladly fly at a fraction of the cost and have more money to spend at my destination. And I don't really care whether the airline gives me any food or drink since it normally is a flight for only a few hours and I can eat before I board or at my destination.

RIGHT. You cannot compare a trip of a few hours with a trip of several days. Sorry. Food DOES make a major difference on a LD train.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

...and on airplanes. People seem to forget how bad airline food got a few years ago. It started a downward slide after 9-11 and bottomed out before beginning a more recent recovery. At one point before buy-on-board started up, coach passengers got nothing on a domestic flight of any length and FC was really bad unless flying on long-haul international. The reviews are easily found on forums like Flyertalk and AirlineMeals.net. To most airlines' credit the trend was reversing until Covid19. Now all bets are off with airlines hovering near bankruptcy. VIA Rail's only currently-operating LD passenger train with sleepers and two overnights offers "a snack and a bottle of water" with nothing else available even for purchase. Could Amtrak do better than what is currently offered? Certainly, but it could also be much, much worse.

VIA Rail has discontinued dining cars on its LD trains?

 

[jiml]

VIA Rail has discontinued dining cars on its LD trains?

VIA is currently operating only two of its long distance trains - the Skeena didn't have a dining car pre-Covid and the Winnipeg-Churchill service is operating without one. They state the following: "A modified meal service will be in place. All passengers will receive a complimentary snack and water. No other food or beverage service will be offered and passengers with food restrictions are being asked to plan accordingly."

 

[Rasputin]

All fine and good if you like flying and prefer air travel absent the food. I guess all of us that won't fly are somewhat a captive audience.

I never said that I liked flying or preferred air travel. I have many times gone way out of my way to travel by train when it would have been much easier to fly. But the current sleeping car rates and food offerings do not represent good value for me especially for a multi-day long distance trip.

I had reservations (since cancelled) this year for Boston to the west coast and I was prepared to tolerate the food on the Lake Shore as a sort of penance one had to pay in order to reach the much more decent western trains. However now once you reach the western trains the food is no better and reports of poor service abound. I am just waiting to see how this and the virus all shake out before making further plans.

 

[Sidney]

I have taken two circle trips this summer and another coming up next month. Of course I am dissapointed with the flex dining,but not enough to deter me from traveling. Only positive of all of this is that we don't have to sit with strangers at every meal and sometimes force conversation.The opposite of social distancing was seating four strangers to one table. I hope that never returns.

On my trips leaving from Pa.I do Coach to and from Chicago and roomettes out of Chi. The guarantee of both seats to yourself makes that option viable.

Why can't sandwiches and cafe car food be served alongside the flex meals? A little variety on a two or three night trip would certainly be welcome.Amtrak must be aware of the almost total negative response to flex dining. Why don't they implement this simple solution during these times?



















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[dlagrua]

The flex meals may be OK for a single meal on an overnight but try eating them for three days as we did the past week and you will get sick to your stomach. The highlight of the trip was when they ran out of these TV dinners and the cafe attendant made us Cheese burgers. They were as good as the lunch options of the past. Amtrak management needs to realize that train travel is not airline travel. They cannot compete on travel times so they need to market the service by offering better amenities.

 

[20th Century Rider]

With things as they are with the pandemic there may be an upside for rail travelers wanting the view with the rolling wheels under them. Intentionally left half empty coach seating provides more comfort... at a fraction of the sleeper fare. The controversial 'food service' becomes a non-issue because you're not paying for it; you bring your own and/or make your selection at the cafe car if you want something hot. And don't forget to stock up at the Pret a Manger take outs in the East for high quality healthy meals.

Downside... wearing that mask and shared potties.

Compromise? You could take the CZ in short segments and stop in places like Reno and Denver to enjoy the local amenities; doing that with a sleeper would incur segment pricing which would be prohibitive. Other LD trains also stop at historic or scenic places along the way.

But... the pandemic makes things more challenging. It's all 'give and take.'

 

[20th Century Rider]

The flex meals may be OK for a single meal on an overnight but try eating them for three days as we did the past week and you will get sick to your stomach. The highlight of the trip was when they ran out of these TV dinners and the cafe attendant made us Cheese burgers. They were as good as the lunch options of the past. Amtrak management needs to realize that train travel is not airline travel. They cannot compete on travel times so they need to market the service by offering better amenities.

You are so right! When you are on the train for several days your diet and eating take on significance... and substandard unhealthy food for so many days is offensive to the passenger. When a cheeseburger becomes a 'relief' that says something for the controversial and cheep eats they've shoed in!

Of course there's an exception! [I'd always have mine with bacon and cheese... and a side of guacamole! 'Extra red onions please!]

 

[fdaley]

Amtrak management needs to realize that train travel is not airline travel. They cannot compete on travel times so they need to market the service by offering better amenities.

This is really a crucial point. Amtrak's current crop of managers, whose experience is mostly in the airline business, are approaching this as though long-distance trains were comparable to very long flights. But the market for long-distance train travel is completely different, with lots of travelers who are choosing this mode partly or mostly for the experience, not because it's the quickest or cheapest way from A to B. By thoroughly degrading the onboard experience, Amtrak is driving away that substantial chunk of travelers.

In my own case, I haven't been on a plane since 1990, so basically all of my travel outside the Northeast for the past three decades has been by rail. Now, if I really need to get somewhere, I'm looking at the plane in a new light: If I have to put up with lousy food or no food, at least the plane ride will be over relatively quickly. But lots of travel ultimately is optional, so in a lot more cases -- family vacations, for example -- we'll probably choose to stay in the Northeast or just stay home if Amtrak doesn't restore something approaching full-service dining. Or perhaps if Via Rail resumes normal operation when the pandemic is over, we'll take the Canadian and rent a car when we get to the West Coast.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I think this happened several times on the Coast Starlight. I remember a SLM>KFS business trip before Superliners. Outside the window were some of the most wonderful food crops growing. Inside the train were plastic packages from Back East and I promised myself that when we got going on Willamette Valley trains we'd have some regional items. My successors succeeded in that. Amtrak meals have gone up and down over the five decades since, reaching new depths recently.

The Willamette valley grows pears, hazelnuts, vineyards for the many wineries that are here... Oregon has many scenic regions as well... the famous coastline, the mountains, and the deserts. We are also famous for covered bridges such as the one you get a glimpse of on approach to EUG. The Coast Starlight provides some magnificent views of this amazing state!

 

[Dakota 400]

You are so right! When you are on the train for several days your diet and eating take on significance... and substandard unhealthy food for so many days is offensive to the passenger. When a cheeseburger becomes a 'relief' that says something for the controversial and cheep eats they've shoed in!

Of course there's an exception! [I'd always have mine with bacon and cheese... and a side of guacamole! 'Extra red onions please!]

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View attachment 18527

I have eaten burgers on Amtrak a few times. The potato chips in your bottom picture appear to be Kettle Chips as compared to the chips in the top photo. I remember being served that type of chips and have always thought that they were the lowest possible quality of potato chip.

 

[west point]

Why is it when the oponents of dining service alway bring up the end points when only 10 - 20 % travelers go end to end ? The exception is the Capitol which has the highest end to end at about 50%. Examine fares from east timbuckto to west podunk. Airline fares are going to go way up if available at all as AA anounces discontinuation of essential servies Oct 1. Amtrak Fares are high too but when you have to go to a major aiirport to major airport enroute times compare better and also expenses. When people travel to lesser stations food becomes a problem to get anything worth eaating.