Will full service dining ever return to the Western trains?

[Willbridge]

The one restaurant job I had in college ( I lasted almost 6 weeks before being released for apparent lack of taste) we would wrap up a bunch of potatoes in foil and get them ready to bake. After they were baked I think they kept them in a warming drawer until needed.

Couldn't Amtrak contract with a local vendor somewhere to bake 'em and then have them ready for a train to pick up?
They could have a big box ready to go. Maybe a bunch of salads, too.

It does seem that if a kitchen-klutz like myself can bake a potato in a microwave that there should be a way to offer that in a cafe car.

 

[Rasputin]

It does seem that if a kitchen-klutz like myself can bake a potato in a microwave that there should be a way to offer that in a cafe car.

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I think you are on to something (as long as they don't forget to load the butter.)

 

[Qapla]

Wait ... now you want power for a microwave AND for some sort of refrigeration - then an employee who places the potatoes in the microwave and another to add the butter ... isn't that getting a bit complicated and extravagant

 

[jruff001]

The accommodation charge for this low bucket trip happens to be $772 - (2 X $245) = $772 - $490 = $282 in which the $245 is the rail fare (coach fare) for one adult that's one bucket above the Value Fare of $188. That $772 for a two night trip for two adults works out $193 per person per night. And that cost is probably comparable to a much nicer berth on a nice cruise ship for a 7 day cruise.

Well, there is no question that if you are looking for a cruise on a ship, you shouldn't be booking Amtrak. Just like if I want to go from Chicago to Seattle, I wouldn't be trying to decide which cruise ship berth would be the best choice for me. So I don't see how that comparison is relevant.

 

[Rasputin]

Wait ... now you want power for a microwave AND for some sort of refrigeration - then an employee who places the potatoes in the microwave and another to add the butter ... isn't that getting a bit complicated and extravagant

That is true, except that all Amtrak would have to do is to provide the butter (which we know from recent trip reports may be too much to expect.) In the lucky event that the butter is provided, hopefully the customer can do the heavy lifting of applying the butter to the potato.

 

[PVD]

Are we getting a bit fanciful? Most of us know that they already had baked potatoes on board., and for the new world of "convenience", pre sized potatoes, both regular and sweet potatoes are readily available plastic wrapped to microwave (7 minutes). They actually store pretty well, also.

 

[niemi24s]

Well, there is no question that if you are looking for a cruise on a ship, you shouldn't be booking Amtrak.

There's no question? I shouldn't?? Sez who??? You???? Harrrumph!

Please get over yourself! Amtrak is our preferred method for getting to and from a cruise port.

Just like if I want to go from Chicago to Seattle, I wouldn't be trying to decide which cruise ship berth would be the best choice for me. So I don't see how that comparison is relevant.

First of all, it is not really necessary for you to see how that comparison is relevant. It's simply one of the ways to make a comparison - like it or lump it.
In the second place, welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Nick Farr]

Couldn't Amtrak contract with a local vendor somewhere to bake 'em and then have them ready for a train to pick up?
They could have a big box ready to go. Maybe a bunch of salads, too.

Having Amtrak create a pathway for local vendors to provide fresh food options is something that we've all agreed on in this and other threads.

 

[Qapla]

I don't see how that comparison is relevant.

Back when I first started working in a pizza place the industry used to talk about the "pizza dollar" - that is how they referred to the amount of money each person/family was willing to spend on pizza. The industry magazines would have articles about how you needed to compete with other pizza places in your area for your share of "the pizza dollar". I worked in the pizza industry for about 15 years.

Over the years the idea of the "pizza dollar" changed to the "food dollar". One could say, "What does running a pizza place have to do with a steak house or seafood place?" The answer is, we were no longer only competing with other pizza places for the money people spent on pizza - we were not competing with the amount of money people spent eating out. We were competing with ALL restaurants ... not just the food we served.

Likewise, even though taking a train has nothing to do with taking a cruise ship - people only have so much money to spend. When it comes to travel - all forms of travel are competing for the "travel dollar". Airlines, cars, RV's, cruse ships and trains. They do not compete ONLY in their own "category" they are all vying same money ... money that is in shorter supply with the aftermath (or continuing dilemma) of COVID-19

 

[jruff001]

Back when I first started working in a pizza place the industry used to talk about the "pizza dollar" - that is how they referred to the amount of money each person/family was willing to spend on pizza. The industry magazines would have articles about how you needed to compete with other pizza places in your area for your share of "the pizza dollar". I worked in the pizza industry for about 15 years.

Over the years the idea of the "pizza dollar" changed to the "food dollar". One could say, "What does running a pizza place have to do with a steak house or seafood place?" The answer is, we were no longer only competing with other pizza places for the money people spent on pizza - we were not competing with the amount of money people spent eating out. We were competing with ALL restaurants ... not just the food we served.

Likewise, even though taking a train has nothing to do with taking a cruise ship - people only have so much money to spend. When it comes to travel - all forms of travel are competing for the "travel dollar". Airlines, cars, RV's, cruse ships and trains. They do not compete ONLY in their own "category" they are all vying same money ... money that is in shorter supply with the aftermath (or continuing dilemma) of COVID-19

I get that, but I think Amtrak and cruise ships are selling completely different things that can't be lumped together in one category. Cruise ships are selling, let's call it, "leisure" - relaxation and having a good time in a fun setting. The competition for that would be something like a resort hotel, or Disney.

OTOH, while there is some overlap (especially on a site like this with avid railfans), Amtrak is primarily selling "transportation" - getting from A to B. Its competition is mainly planes, cars and buses.

 

[tgstubbs1]

Back when I first started working in a pizza place the industry used to talk about the "pizza dollar" - that is how they referred to the amount of money each person/family was willing to spend on pizza. The industry magazines would have articles about how you needed to compete with other pizza places in your area for your share of "the pizza dollar". I worked in the pizza industry for about 15 years.

Over the years the idea of the "pizza dollar" changed to the "food dollar". One could say, "What does running a pizza place have to do with a steak house or seafood place?" The answer is, we were no longer only competing with other pizza places for the money people spent on pizza - we were not competing with the amount of money people spent eating out. We were competing with ALL restaurants ... not just the food we served.

Likewise, even though taking a train has nothing to do with taking a cruise ship - people only have so much money to spend. When it comes to travel - all forms of travel are competing for the "travel dollar". Airlines, cars, RV's, cruse ships and trains. They do not compete ONLY in their own "category" they are all vying same money ... money that is in shorter supply with the aftermath (or continuing dilemma) of COVID-19

Right. People can choose to spend a couple of days crossing the country, but if they don't enjoy it or have some compelling reason not to fly, they will probably fly, or drive.

It looks like a person could fly to Seattle and hop a quick cruise around the Sound or San Juans with the time/money spent on an Amtrak bedroom.

Unless they have some particular reason not to fly Amtrak usually loses to air for point A to point B, with some exceptions, like the NEC.

 

[Qapla]

Basically, if you want to get peoples money - you have to give them a reason to spend it with YOU and not someone else ... something Amtrak is not currently doing

 

[jruff001]

Basically, if you want to get peoples money - you have to give them a reason to spend it with YOU and not someone else ... something Amtrak is not currently doing

Let's not forget that the biggest reason hardly anyone takes Amtrak's long distance trains isn't because of Flex Dining. It's because it takes four days instead of five hours to get across the country, or two days instead of two hours from NY-FL.

It is just not a practical way for most people to travel, no matter what they are or aren't serving for dinner.

 

[tgstubbs1]

That's why Amtrak is between a rock and a hard place.
Of people I've known that took a LD trip, they were the type to want a little adventure, learning and sightseeing along the way. If they have to endure what some people consider torturous food they may reconsider, especially if it's part of an expensive package.
Food isn't the main issue, but it does have an influence.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I get that, but I think Amtrak and cruise ships are selling completely different things that can't be lumped together in one category.

Nobody is lumping them together in one category. It's a price comparison. Further, you can use cruise ships as transportation. There are one way cruises to Alaska, Puerto Rico, and across the Ocean. That's of course a small percentage of travelers.

Unless they have some particular reason not to fly Amtrak usually loses to air for point A to point B, with some exceptions, like the NEC.

It is just not a practical way for most people to travel, no matter what they are or aren't serving for dinner.

This gets tricky... a single overnight, depending on several factors, can many times be very practical. Past that it gets less and less practical when compared directly to flying.

Let's not forget that the biggest reason hardly anyone takes Amtrak's long distance trains isn't because of Flex Dining. It's because it takes four days instead of five hours to get across the country, or two days instead of two hours from NY-FL.

My last amtrak long distance trip was Florida to Pennsylvania. I compared flights and Amtrak and chose Amtrak for a number of reasons. Amtrak was more practical for me. Either way I was going to need to spend an overnight somewhere (either on the train or a hotel when I arrived from my flight) - the train was the most convenient as I needed to get to Lancaster and so I could just get off the Meteor and transfer to a Keystone train. But this is leaving dining car talk and entering a whole different set of questions.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Regarding Baked Potatoes in the dining car - it should be literally as simple as having the LSA place a baked potato in an oven and then serving it. It actually would be EASIER than the flex meals since they have to be heated to order.

 

[Palmetto]

The one restaurant job I had in college ( I lasted almost 6 weeks before being released for apparent lack of taste) we would wrap up a bunch of potatoes in foil and get them ready to bake. After they were baked I think they kept them in a warming drawer until needed.

Couldn't Amtrak contract with a local vendor somewhere to bake 'em and then have them ready for a train to pick up?
They could have a big box ready to go. Maybe a bunch of salads, too.

Amtrak had baked potatoes all over its system on long distance trains. There is no reason to fix it if it isn't broken--unless, of course, the cost is less, because it seems to be about cutting costs these days.

 

[Palmetto]

There's no question? I shouldn't?? Sez who??? You???? Harrrumph!

Please get over yourself! Amtrak is our preferred method for getting to and from a cruise port.

First of all, it is not really necessary for you to see how that comparison is relevant. It's simply one of the ways to make a comparison - like it or lump it.
In the second place, welcome to my ignore list.

Apparently, you brook no opposition.

 

[niemi24s]

Likewise, even though taking a train has nothing to do with taking a cruise ship - people only have so much money to spend.

But if you dislike flying and want to take the train to and from the cruise port then taking the train has much to do with taking a cruise ship. They both become the vast majority of the cost of such a journey. And then each of their costs is an objective basis for comparison as opposed to the opinionated stuff regarding food, service, amenities, scenery, etc., etc., etc.

This is nothing more than the way I do it. Nothing more. Take it or leave it.

 

[Qapla]

Let's not forget that the biggest reason hardly anyone takes Amtrak's long distance trains ... is because it takes four days instead of five hours to get across the country, or two days instead of two hours from NY-FL. - It is just not a practical way for most people to travel, no matter what they are or aren't serving for dinner.

While it may be true that many prefer to fly because it is faster - let's not forget about those who drive and take just as long, or longer, than the train takes. In talking to people I have found that many are surprised that there is a passenger train. They didn't take the train, not because it took too long, but because they never thought of it.

Amtrak does not advertise - at least not effectively. The old adage actually is true - out-of-sight-out-of-mind. I have had many people tell me "I wish I had known I could take the train from Florida to NY" when I told them about my experiences on Amtrak.

Amtrak does not need everyone who wants to travel from point A to B to fill trains. They just need enough! Sounds simple. But, when the majority of people are unaware of a product or service they don't use it no matter how many changes to the product or service they make.

The way to make any business profitable is to get more customers. Reducing services or cutting corners seldom gets the desired results. Making more people aware of your product/service is a far better way to attract more customers and thus increase profits ... something Amtrak does not seem to understand (or refuses to do)

If there were proper advertising of Amtrak people may be surprised at how many people would use LD trains - there is certainly enough to keep Interstate crowded ... many of who would gladly ride than drive

 

[me_little_me]

There's no question? I shouldn't?? Sez who??? You???? Harrrumph!
Please get over yourself! Amtrak is our preferred method for getting to and from a cruise port.

I agree. Amtrak to Boston, Baltimore and Ft Lauderdale (twice) for cruises. Was looking at Amtrak to NOL and Houston (Galveston) when Covid came along. I'd have done more but it hadn't hit me that it made it so easy until a few years ago.Lots of baggage, nice ride, no cruise port high parking fees, no packed plane with $$$ baggage fees, free station parking (Cary, Greensboro, Savannah) and a chance to relax overnight in local city before going on the cruise.

 

[tgstubbs1]

If there were proper advertising of Amtrak people may be surprised at how many people would use LD trains - there is certainly enough to keep Interstate crowded ... many of who would gladly ride than drive

Surely a nationwide, massive advertising campaign would help them. But they can't afford that, and it wouldn't be very efficient use of advertising dollars.

I don't think they can afford to advertise to a broad general market because of the expense, and their actual target audience is so narrow it's hard to find a medium that addresses just that market. After all they don't even serve that many places so to advertise them in a manner like United Airlines or Delta, who provide true nationwide service to most of the major cities in the country, would be a huge waste. Most of those people that couldn't use Amtrak for their needs if they wanted to.

They advertise their tours/packages some in travel arenas because there is a chance people might want a tour of the Grand Canyon or something like that.

It's just not set up as a nationwide point A to point B service for most of country. It has an incomplete network and now the 3x weekly service will make it even more difficult to use.

 

[jruff001]

I agree. Amtrak to Boston, Baltimore and Ft Lauderdale (twice) for cruises. Was looking at Amtrak to NOL and Houston (Galveston) when Covid came along.

I wasn't talking about getting to and from the cruise port. (That would be the "transportation" product I mentioned.) I was referring to the experience of actually being on a cruise ship with the (pre-Covid) buffets, casino, lounging by the pool, shows, looking out over the ocean, whatever about the cruise experience you were seeking (the "leisure" product).

At least two people seem to misunderstood me so apologies if I did not express myself clearly.

 

[AM_ROAD]

I agree. Amtrak to Boston, Baltimore and Ft Lauderdale (twice) for cruises. Was looking at Amtrak to NOL and Houston (Galveston) when Covid came along. I'd have done more but it hadn't hit me that it made it so easy until a few years ago.Lots of baggage, nice ride, no cruise port high parking fees, no packed plane with $$$ baggage fees, free station parking (Cary, Greensboro, Savannah) and a chance to relax overnight in local city before going on the cruise.

Sunset is the nearest train to me (3 hours away from Alpine and that aint bad). Sunset is a mess in Texas. I can get to Los Angles faster than New Orleans.

 

[Barb Stout]

If I want to foam (railfan..) I go to Durango or Strasburg etc. I take Amtrak to get somewhere.. and yes enjoy the train travel as well. On any given day there are probably just as many people making “points runs” on airlines (traveling just for the points promotions...) as there are railfans who are riding purely for a joy ride.

Speaking of Durango, there was a Covid19 outbreak in Silverton, but it was in a business that "is closed to the public". I am curious about what businesses would be closed to the public in a tourist town. And I suppose I shouldn't be mentioning this in this particular thread, but this is my way of breaking rules.