Wisconsin High Speed Rail Stopped

[mercedeslove]

*headdesk* I think I'd like to go back to my days as a child where politics didn't matter to me.

This is all just making me so ugh!

So ugh? Can you be more specific?

It's just stressful and makes me rage, I am still pissed over Tuesdays out come. I liked it when to bed red was just a crayon, not a color I hated.

 

[fredevad]

Absolutely amazing.

Govorner-elect Walker has reached out to Talgo to say "Hey guys! You're still going to build your factory here, right???"

http://www.jsonline..../106790123.html

I like how he's claiming that the "decision isn't final, yet".

What I see here is that Walker has not publicly said the "decision isn't final, yet.", according to the article that's what Talgo reported that Walker told them directly.

 

[WICT106]

More bad news: Governor Doyle has left the fate of the WI rail extension in Walker's hands. Walker has pledged to kill it. MILW Journal: Canceling train will cost $ 100 million, 400 jobs

It looks like the train is dead. :angry2:

 

[John Bredin]

More bad news: Governor Doyle has left the fate of the WI rail extension in Walker's hands. Walker has pledged to kill it. MILW Journal: Canceling train will cost $ 100 million, 400 jobs

If you read the linked article, Doyle left the fate of the project in the hands of Walker and U.S. Sec'y of Transport Ray LaHood. That's not leaving it to Walker's tender mercies, that's Doyle saying "it's not my problem anymore, you guys figure it out. By the way, say hello to my little friend :lol: , who'll be taking over my side of the argument."

As the article states, LaHood has called Walker's bluff and stated clearly that if the project is killed, the federal money will not go to roads in Wisconsin but to rail projects in some other state(s). That was Walker's big "out" with the know-nothing portion of the Wisconsin voting public -- "we aren't giving up the money, we're just going to spend it on useful road projects rather than a wasteful rail project that you won't nobody will use " -- and LaHood has shredded that strawman into so much loose straw.

It looks like the train is dead. :angry2:

The opera ain't over 'till the fat lady sings. IMHO, we're only at the intermission.

 

[fredevad]

More bad news: Governor Doyle has left the fate of the WI rail extension in Walker's hands. Walker has pledged to kill it. MILW Journal: Canceling train will cost $ 100 million, 400 jobs

Wow, by my calculations canceling the project amounts to over 13 years of operating costs (at 7.5mil per year) if the project is completed and there is no government help. Doesn't seem like much of a taxpayer savings to me.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm just glad that our liberal press spelled out to the voters what a pathetic non-savings this is prior to the election. That way they were able to enter the voting booth with all the information necessary to evaluate the rhetoric vs. reality.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

The latest update is good! Scott Walker may change his mind! ^_^

JS Online

"Right now I see no scenario where the taxpayers of Wisconsin aren't going to be on the hook for millions of dollars," Walker said. "And to me unless there was an ironclad agreement that showed me otherwise, I'm not interested, and I think the majority of voters of the state made that very clear in the election."

Thus, "an ironclad agreement" would cause Walker to reverse himself!!

Walker is scheduled to meet with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, a Republican, to discuss the issue.

$100 says that the Milwaukee-Madison train is alive and well. . .

 

[Devil's Advocate]

$100 says that the Milwaukee-Madison train is alive and well.

I'll see your $100 and raise you another $100.

 

[PRR 60]

$100 says that the Milwaukee-Madison train is alive and well.

I'll see your $100 and raise you another $100.

The cost of canceling the Madison line is less than $15 million. The other nearly $85 million is for improvements to the Milwaukee Station and the Hiawatha line to Chicago. As far as I know, those projects are still being pursued.

 

[Tim in Wisconsin]

Gov.-Elect Walker's transition office can be reached at 608-261-9200. Live in Wisconsin? Tell his office how much you'd use the train and why it benefits the people of the state. Don't live in Wisconsin? Call anyway, and thank him for sending that money to your state.

 

[fredevad]

The cost of canceling the Madison line is less than $15 million. The other nearly $85 million is for improvements to the Milwaukee Station and the Hiawatha line to Chicago. As far as I know, those projects are still being pursued.

I thought it was an all or nothing thing accepting or rejecting the $810 mil stimulus. Are you saying that we can reject only part of the stimulus? If that is true, no one (Walker's or Barrett's campaign) has done a good job of communicating that.

Otherwise, we'll need to repay the $100 mil already spent, plus spend another $85 mil of Wisconsin taxpayer money to complete the Milwaukee Station and Hiawatha projects. So that would mean that it's costing the Wisconsin taxpayers $185 mil, well over 24 years of the annual maintenance cost for the Milwaukee - Madison extension (again assuming no government subsidies).

 

[rrdude]

Gov.-Elect Walker's transition office can be reached at 608-261-9200. Live in Wisconsin? Tell his office how much you'd use the train and why it benefits the people of the state. Don't live in Wisconsin? Call anyway, and thank him for sending that money to your state.

I just called, and a LIVE human answered the phone after just a couple of rings. Didn't ask if I was a resident or where I lived..She said "I will make your concerns known to the incoming Governor..." Whole thing took maybe 45 seconds.

CALL TO ARMS FOR AU MEMBERS / AND POSTERS! Call this number, make your VOICE HEARD!

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

I just called, and a LIVE human answered the phone after just a couple of rings. Didn't ask if I was a resident or where I lived..She said "I will make your concerns known to the incoming Governor..." Whole thing took maybe 45 seconds.

I just called too, spoke to Madeline. I asked that Governor-elect Walker RECONSIDER his position (this lets him seem reasonable) on the train. I stated that I would use the train to commute to Madison (where I work) from Oconomowoc or Watertown and that I-94 was too congested to drive and I couldn't stand buses.

She said she'd convey the message.

My fingers crossed.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Governors coming in to office are usually not terribly interested in what anyone has to say. They have 4 years for you to forget the things you don't like that they do in the first few months in office.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Governors coming in to office are usually not terribly interested in what anyone has to say. They have 4 years for you to forget the things you don't like that they do in the first few months in office.

Oh, I won't forget, you can be sure of that.

I didn't vote for him on November 2 and I won't vote for him in 4 years, either.

 

[jis]

Governors coming in to office are usually not terribly interested in what anyone has to say. They have 4 years for you to forget the things you don't like that they do in the first few months in office.

Oh, I won't forget, you can be sure of that.

I didn't vote for him on November 2 and I won't vote for him in 4 years, either.

Which in effect means you have close to zero leverage. At least if you voted for him and hold out the possibility of not doing so the next time, now that is leverage.

Since you didn't vote for him and are already committed to not vote for him next time, what possible interest would he have in knowing what you think?

 

[rrdude]

608-261-9200

Guys, I think you are missing the point. They are NOT asking "Did you vote for him?" or "What party are you registered with?" or even "Do you live in Wisconsin?"

SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE, or at least the consciousness level is raised.

Call the number, and inform them that you ".....Disagree with the Governor's decision NOT to support the MAD-CITY to MILWAUKEE HrSR....."

608-261-9200

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Governors coming in to office are usually not terribly interested in what anyone has to say. They have 4 years for you to forget the things you don't like that they do in the first few months in office.

Oh, I won't forget, you can be sure of that.

I didn't vote for him on November 2 and I won't vote for him in 4 years, either.

Which in effect means you have close to zero leverage. At least if you voted for him and hold out the possibility of not doing so the next time, now that is leverage.

Since you didn't vote for him and are already committed to not vote for him next time, what possible interest would he have in knowing what you think?

Leverage is not a factor unless I choose to reveal how I voted; you know I didn't vote for him, but the Governor-Elect does not. To him, I am simply a citizen of Wisconsin expressing what I'd like him to do.

Presumably (unless he is totally disingenuous, which he might be), as governor Walker would be interested in citizen's opinions on issues such as passenger rail.

 

[PRR 60]

Whether you support rail or not, why would you expect a man who ran for office with a major part of his campaign being a pledge to stop the train, to now change his mind now because a few people call saying they support the train? You could probably get 100,000 people in Madison to call and ask him to continue the project, but there are probably as many people in Green Bay who would call if he, in fact, changed his mind.

The man ran for office pledging to stop the project because, in his mind, $7.5 million per year to operate the line was not justified by the transportation benefit to be provided. He may be right, or he may be wrong, but it really does not matter now. He won. I don't expect him to betray the people who voted for him based on a few phone calls from people who did not. It doesn't take a genius for his office people to figure out the how people calling to keep the train voted in the election. Imagine the opposite: a candidate who ran supporting the train, won the election, and then announced he was going to cancel the project. Now, that would be a reason to call.

In life, you win some, you lose some. Either way, you move on to the next battle.

 

[AlanB]

The man ran for office pledging to stop the project because, in his mind, $7.5 million per year to operate the line was not justified by the transportation benefit to be provided.

Personally I think you give him too much credit for actually thinking about the benefits vs. costs. Everything points to him seeing a voter sentiment and picking that hot button issue to ride into office. The only benefits being considered by him regarding the train was whether or not it would get him elected if he choose a side.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

This is but one of many chances given to us to actually live by the values we claim to support. I would suggest every pro-rail person here ignore the lazy do-nothing naysayers in this thread and take a few minutes to make their voices heard. This is not about what Walker does or doesn't do as it is about what we do. Walker may be little more than a spineless sock in the wind sucking up to whichever interests his pollsters and advisors tell him to. But we railfans don't owe our allegiance to anyone but ourselves. Here's yet another opportunity to show our will and determination and push back against the anti-rail crowd. Set aside a couple minutes to call Walker's team and give them a piece of your mind.

 

[Tim in Wisconsin]

According to my cell phone timer, my phone call took exactly 45 seconds. It takes far more time to type up a response to a discussion board telling people to not call than it takes to actually call. Any Congressional staff member will tell you that they pay far more attention to phone calls than e-mails or letters; no reason to believe that the Governor-Elect behaves differently. At the very least, Walker's office is making tick marks in a pro-rail and anti-rail column. And if you look at their websites, they're adamant about calling in as well.

Again, 608-261-9200. It literally takes less than a minute and costs you effectively nothing.

Tim Wagner

Madison WI

 

[AlanB]

But I do have to wonder if they might not be using caller ID, in which case they could well dismiss any phone calls not from a Wisconsin area code. Not saying that they are doing that, but it is a possibility that must be considered.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Whether you support rail or not, why would you expect a man who ran for office with a major part of his campaign being a pledge to stop the train, to now change his mind now because a few people call saying they support the train? You could probably get 100,000 people in Madison to call and ask him to continue the project, but there are probably as many people in Green Bay who would call if he, in fact, changed his mind.

The man ran for office pledging to stop the project because, in his mind, $7.5 million per year to operate the line was not justified by the transportation benefit to be provided. He may be right, or he may be wrong, but it really does not matter now. He won. I don't expect him to betray the people who voted for him based on a few phone calls from people who did not. It doesn't take a genius for his office people to figure out the how people calling to keep the train voted in the election. Imagine the opposite: a candidate who ran supporting the train, won the election, and then announced he was going to cancel the project. Now, that would be a reason to call.

In life, you win some, you lose some. Either way, you move on to the next battle.

Ahh. . .but this assumes that there were no reasons to vote for Walker other than opposing the passenger train. It is indeed rare that one agrees with 100% of a candidate's positions, and I suspect there are many who supported Walker but who were not necessarily voting against the train. Witness a very public example in Ron Krueger, the Republican mayor of Watertown, one of the proposed stops between Milwaukee and Madison: Watertown mayor

I agree with you about how he can't seem to betray the people who voted for him, but he also can't afford to appear to be a fool. :wacko:

Walker has publicly stated his condition to move forward, namely, "an ironclad agreement" with the Feds about not having Wisconsin taxpayers pay for operating costs. I suspect that this is how the situation will eventually resolve; if the Feds don't pick up 100%, I'm betting Walker will cave if they match the Hiawatha support level, which is 90%.

Here's hoping!

 

[PerRock]

But I do have to wonder if they might not be using caller ID, in which case they could well dismiss any phone calls not from a Wisconsin area code. Not saying that they are doing that, but it is a possibility that must be considered.

Way around that: use skype to call. It will show up as a restricted, unknown or 000-000-0000 number on caller ID (unless you do have a number attached to your skype).

peter