Wishlist for Superliner III's

[norfolkwesternhenry]

I don't care much for buffet (the "take-all-you-want", type) restaurants on land; and like the idea even less on a moving train...

First of all, there is gross waste of food. Secondly, elderly passengers would have a difficult time carrying trays on a fast-moving train, especially over rough areas of tracks, although waiter assistance could solve that problem....

Not to mention the unsanitary actions of some children and even some adults in handling foods....(can you say norovirus outbreak?).

As for domes being a "unique benefit that only rail travel can provide"....the old Greyhound "Scenicruiser" (GM PD-4501), built in the mid fifties, sure came close....

I agree. Buffets on a train sound like a disaster. I can already see silverware and plates on the ground from the train rocking and shaking things.

Wait a minute... You say silverware and plates end up on the floor. But why haven't I heard of that kind of incident on a dining car?

dining cars have silverware secured, where in a buffet, the silverware on a buffet is stacked perilousy tall, and I have been in a stationary buffet and a stack of plates tipped over, so imagine on a buffet car rocketing down the NEC at 125 mph, it would be quite the mess!

 

[jis]

Why on earth would you think that a Buffet Car would operate like the stationary buffets that you have been to? What would prevent plates and silverware in buffet cars from being properly secured, other than utter idiocy of their operators. I actually have no problem imagining a buffet car rocketing down wherever at 125mph, since I have actually carried a tray of food in a ICE rocketing down at 300kph. Time to stop being unimaginative and think of solutions that can work instead of figuring out limited ideas that don't. Or are you really incapable of such?

 

[MARC Rider]

So, anyone traveled on the Auto Train recently? How's the buffet and how does it compare to amtrak dining car chow?

 

[MARC Rider]

So, anyone traveled on the Auto Train recently? How's the buffet and how does it compare to amtrak dining car chow?

I should research before I post. Apparently the auto train currently has regular dining cars, the buffet was back during the last century. It does appear they have seperately diners for coach and sleeper pax, though there doesn't seem to be any difference in the menus, except for the chicken entree and that the coach lasagna isn't baked.

 

[A Voice]

There have been buffets on trains. Some of the kids here are too young to know about such things. They think that anything that they have not seen, never existed, and are too lazy to google it. That's all.

I just googled "Auto Train Buffet" and looky what I found:

Isn't that technically a cafeteria (where the server plates your food) instead of a buffet (where you serve your self)? Or are the terms used interchangeably in some parts of the country?

Just for the sake of argument, a cafeteria setup might work very well in an Amtrak dining car, though so could a true buffet. I've actually experienced one on a steam excursion years ago. Somehow, they must have obtained special permission not to stack the plates and silverware where they'd fall over. Seemed to work just fine.

 

[jis]

On the business of Cafeteria vs. Buffet, Amtrak called this service "Buffet Service". I don't know the exact nuances of those two terms to comment intelligently on the matter.

 

[Anderson]

I think pretty high on my wish list at this point is lie-flat seats. I got to experience them on JetBlue over Thanksgiving and I'm looking forward to doing the same in Australia over Christmas (on the Spirit of Queensland).

Serious question: How does the width of an Amtrak coach vary vis-a-vis various narrowbody planes? My best guess is that it's about on par with a Boeing 717, but I can't find reliable information on the internal width of a Superliner (only external) or the Acela...and I'm also coming up short on what the loading gauge limits actually are, since it seems that (among other failings) the Amfleets left about half a foot of space "on the table":
Width (per Wikipedia):
Amfleet: 9'11" (119")
California Car: 10" (120")
Surfliner: 10" (120")
Horizon: 10" (120")
Superliner: 10'2" (122")
Acela: 10'4.5"-10'5" (124.5-125")

 

[jphjaxfl]

There have been buffets on trains. Some of the kids here are too young to know about such things. They think that anything that they have not seen, never existed, and are too lazy to google it. That's all.

I just googled "Auto Train Buffet" and looky what I found:

Isn't that technically a cafeteria (where the server plates your food) instead of a buffet (where you serve your self)? Or are the terms used interchangeably in some parts of the country?

Just for the sake of argument, a cafeteria setup might work very well in an Amtrak dining car, though so could a true buffet. I've actually experienced one on a steam excursion years ago. Somehow, they must have obtained special permission not to stack the plates and silverware where they'd fall over. Seemed to work just fine.

That looks very similar to the buffet or cafeteria that they had on the Silver Service in the late 80s. The staff controlled the plates and there was a staff person at the end of the food line who would take your tray to a table for you. The food was "ok" but not as good as a fresh meal served at your table. The food was not as good at a later seating due to being prepared before the service started. They had the double unit dining cars to make it work with 1 of the cars being an all table car. Fortunately, it didn't last long - but it would be better than no dining car at all on the Silver Star.

 

[Anderson]

Yeah...I have a friend who took Amtrak back then and that food service made him swear Amtrak off. Why do I get a feeling we're all unusually habituated to what happens on the train?

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

Why on earth would you think that a Buffet Car would operate like the stationary buffets that you have been to? What would prevent plates and silverware in buffet cars from being properly secured, other than utter idiocy of their operators. I actually have no problem imagining a buffet car rocketing down wherever at 125mph, since I have actually carried a tray of food in a ICE rocketing down at 300kph. Time to stop being unimaginative and think of solutions that can work instead of figuring out limited ideas that don't. Or are you really incapable of such?

I can imagine proper security of plates and silverware, but I can also imagine improper use, leading to a messy and potentially expensive collapse of plate. The NEC is very rough, at least in an Amfeet car, the Acela wasn't bad, but it has hydraulics if I remember correctly, Germany's ICE probably runs on very well laid tracks, that are highly maintained, and with excellent suspension. Also, remember I'm only 14, what 14 year olds do is imagine the worst possible problem, and how it happens.

 

[jis]

Why on earth would you think that a Buffet Car would operate like the stationary buffets that you have been to? What would prevent plates and silverware in buffet cars from being properly secured, other than utter idiocy of their operators. I actually have no problem imagining a buffet car rocketing down wherever at 125mph, since I have actually carried a tray of food in a ICE rocketing down at 300kph. Time to stop being unimaginative and think of solutions that can work instead of figuring out limited ideas that don't. Or are you really incapable of such?

I can imagine proper security of plates and silverware, but I can also imagine improper use, leading to a messy and potentially expensive collapse of plate. The NEC is very rough, at least in an Amfeet car, the Acela wasn't bad, but it has hydraulics if I remember correctly, Germany's ICE probably runs on very well laid tracks, that are highly maintained, and with excellent suspension. Also, remember I'm only 14, what 14 year olds do is imagine the worst possible problem, and how it happens.

I was 14 once, and I certainly did not obsess about worst possible outcomes back then. I was a very optimistic person and also a realist then and continue to be so now. So I do not accept the generalization about 14 year olds at all. It may be just a subset of 14 year olds who are doomsday fantasizers

If you must imagine bad things why stop at just plates spilling over? think of the immense possibilities of someone bringing an explosive device to the line waiting for food in the buffet. LOL!

 

[PVD]

It is more difficult to maintain food safety standards at a buffet line.

 

[A Voice]

It is more difficult to maintain food safety standards at a buffet line.

Again, however, buffets work just fine at restaurants all over the nation; Why would one aboard a train have bigger problems with food safety? At least which cannot be overcome - before anyone says anything - by doing things a bit differently sometimes simply because you're on a moving train.

Food safety would also be enhanced with a cafeteria line, as seen on Auto Train previously, as opposed to an actual serve-yourself buffet line.

 

[A Voice]

I think pretty high on my wish list at this point is lie-flat seats. I got to experience them on JetBlue over Thanksgiving and I'm looking forward to doing the same in Australia over Christmas (on the Spirit of Queensland).

Serious question: How does the width of an Amtrak coach vary vis-a-vis various narrowbody planes? My best guess is that it's about on par with a Boeing 717, but I can't find reliable information on the internal width of a Superliner (only external) or the Acela...and I'm also coming up short on what the loading gauge limits actually are, since it seems that (among other failings) the Amfleets left about half a foot of space "on the table":

Width (per Wikipedia):

Amfleet: 9'11" (119")

California Car: 10" (120")

Surfliner: 10" (120")

Horizon: 10" (120")

Superliner: 10'2" (122")

Acela: 10'4.5"-10'5" (124.5-125")

Lie-flat seats in coach would indeed be nice (so would 2-1 seating, especially for single persons and those of us who are a bit, uh, fat) but I'm wondering if it is a practical idea. You are going to lose a great deal of seating capacity in a coach with lie-flat seats, so much in fact that you might do just as well with a modern Slumbercoach or all-Roomette car. Further, even on a long-distance train many of the passengers are not onboard overnight (or all night) for sleeping; Even for a 12-15 or more hour day trip, such accommodations are unneeded.

 

[jis]

For railroad applications the old tried and tested Sections is a better more cost effective idea involving way less maintenance hog mechanisms involved in airline style lie flat seats, with better utilization of space, and actually more effective space and comfort for passengers. This is specially true on single level high ceiling cars like the Viewliners. On double deck low ceiling cars there is a slightly better case to be made for airline style lie flat seats. but still they will be way more expensive to maintain than simple upper berths.

 

[PVD]

It is more difficult for restaurants to maintain those standards at a buffet also. That is not unique to Amtrak. Amtrak however is subject to FDA standards and inspections, most restaurants are subject to inspection by their local jurisdictions and in most areas of the country it can be somewhat lax. It is more difficult to maintain different holding temps required for a buffet than in centralized storage. I sort of like buffets (as a customer), but they aren't easy to run properly as a business.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

If Amtrak wants to have high quality food, buffets are not the way to go, traditional cooked to order food made by an experienced chef is the way to go for high quality, buffet food in my experience is more about quantity than quality, where Amtrak should aim for quality, but not at ridiculous prices

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I just googled "Auto Train Buffet" and looky what I found:

Those faces. They look like creepy animatronic mannequins from the new Delos Eightiesworld.

 

[nferr]

I ate in the buffet cars on the Silver Service. The trains were much longer then, so the buffet service kept things moving. The food was pretty poor IMO.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

If Amtrak wants to compete with air travel, everything that can be better than a plane, should be used to the max, so bigger coach seats, maybe slumber coach of sorts, (for those who want lie flat seating), excellent cooked to order food, luxuries like alcohol, a very well kept lounge car, and overall better staffing than planes. And speed improvements through the plains, like the EB through North Dakota and eastern Montana, the CZ through Nebraska, most of the plains route is 79 mph, and quite a rough ride, especially in the winter, if Amtrak fine tuned their springs, and suspension, and the railways fine tuned their track, then it would be a lot smoother and faster. My family usually drives, because the train is to rough, and doesn't go where they want to... yet

 

[jis]

Amtrak mainly competes with road everywhere. It is a serious competition for air only in corridors with travel times around three to four hours. In longer distance O/D pairs its penetration is minuscule.

 

[norfolkwesternhenry]

Amtrak mainly competes with road everywhere. It is a serious competition for air only in corridors with travel times around three to four hours. In longer distance O/D pairs its penetration is minuscule.

true

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak mainly competes with road everywhere. It is a serious competition for air only in corridors with travel times around three to four hours. In longer distance O/D pairs its penetration is minuscule.

Amtrak can't even compete with roads in TX. Our highways will typically beat the train by several hours in every direction. In some directions a car can beat Amtrak by days. That being said, if you can't fly, or drive, or ride a bus, and you can afford to wait for days before departure, then by golly Amtrak has you covered!