Acela II RFP information announcement

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Actually even PRIIA allowed for the NEC revenues to be re-invested in the NEC, but Congress never appropriated enough in any year covered by PRIIA to actually make that happen without shutting down the LD network, or significant parts of it. So things continued pretty much as usual. Maybe Congress will appropriate adequately for it to happen this time. only time will tell. But if Congress does not appropriate $700million+ for the LD side, we can forget about NEC revenues getting re-invested in the NEC. At least part of it will go to support LD or more correctly speaking the central allocated costs of Amtrak. As we know, none of the FY16 figures for Amtrak appropriation suggest that there is any plan to do an adequate appropriation at least for FY16.

Words are cheap. Be on the lookout for what money is actually made available when push comes to shove.
Does the $2.5 Billion RRIF Loan request include the improvements to Washington Union Station and the train yard? Is the Proposed NEC profit in addition to the grants from the Fast Act?

Also, here is a Link to the Fast Act which includes Amtrak funding titles:

https://www.enotrans.org/wp-content/uploads/FAST-Act-Authorizations.pdf
 
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With it looking certain that the Fed is fixing to raise interest rates
The Fed is not going to raise interest rates any time in the near future, unless they're seized by madness. They saw what happened in the EU when they raised rates; the pro-rate-raising people have actually been switching to "keep rates low" out of fear of the EU disaster.
From the Wall Street Journal yesterday:

"Federal Reserve officials are likely to raise their benchmark short-term interest rate from near zero Wednesday, expecting to slowly ratchet it higher to above 3% in three years."
The WSJ is not trustworthy in any way (and I stopped reading it around the time Murdoch bought it and ruined the news pages), but it is possible that the Federal Reserve has been seized by madness. The EU officials certainly were.

If so, Federal Reserve officials are effectively inducing a recession immediately before the election, which is political interference in the election for the benefit of the Republicans. Removal from office would be appropriate, but we have a President who probably doesn't even see the problem. The country is in big trouble.
 
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Will the new Acela's be faster right out of the box? I read on Reason Rail that they would reduce the NY-Boston travel time by 38 minutes and 24 minutes between NY and Washington but it wasn't clear whether this would be because of the Acela II's characteristics, better acceleration and higher tilt etc, or if some infrastructure investment would be required. I think the X2000 could do NY-Washington faster than Acela due to lower weigh during a test so a 24 minute reduction is believable. And the plan for Acela was initially about 3 hours but Metro North forbid tilt which added about 30 minutes but I think this is now allowed. A link to the RFP would be helpful too.
Since no one else has responded to your question, the new HSR trainsets will likely allow for some small reductions in trip times, maybe a few minutes, but not the numbers you state. The proposed (hoped for someday in the distant future?) 38 minute reduction for NYP-BOS and 24 minutes for NYP-WAS trip times would come from major investments in the NEC infrastructure starting with bridge & tunnel replacement projects, additional tracks, and a long list of various NEC state of good repair and improvement projects.
The slow trip time over the New Haven line is not due to the Acela not being allowed to tilt, but the many slow spots and never ending track & catenary projects on the New Haven line. The Acela has been allowed to tilt on the New Haven line for a while now. Gov. Malloy of CT has proposed to invest $3.9 billion over many years into upgrading and modernizing the New Haven Line, which would significantly benefit the Acelas and Regionals if all the proposed CT upgrades were to be done.
 
And it's probably unlikely that Amtrak will combine two train-sets into one, which is done in other parts of the world. (By this, I mean that two train-sets coupled into one, with a total length of about 1,312 feet or so).

For the next generation train-set, Amtrak is looking at a train-set not more than 205 meters (or 672 feet) long to seat 40% more passengers. Why didn't they look at trains that are closer to 750 or 800 feet long to seat even more passengers?
 
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Alstom ran a full page ad in the Washington Post last week on the back page of the first section and is repeating the ad today as a ~3/4 page ad on page A5. I think the ad is a sign that Alstom expects an announcement soon and wants to get the word out to the staff and Congresscritters on the Hill that the equipment will be American Made built by real Americans in the USA to cut off any negative knee jerk responses.

The ad has an outline of the Statute of Liberty formed by train tracks with "Alstom is USA" in large text. The smaller text in the bottom part says: "Over 150 of USA rail manufacturing expertise * More than 8,000 cars assembled in Alatom's factory in Hornell, NY * 1,900 employees across the USA with more than 350 suppliers in 30 states". The basic colors in the ad are red, white, and blue. Not exactly subtle. Worthy of ads put out by US defense contractors that you see a lot of in the DC area.
 
This is good news I think. I like the current plan of spreading out contracts amongst Siemens, CAF, and Alstom. Wish Talgo got more business too and could've kept the Wisconsin factory. Plus the corridor order in Illinois.
 
The FY16 budget and FY16-FY20 Five Year Plan document has been released which has some updates on the projected schedule for the Next Gen HSR trainsets. Of course, contract award and delivery schedules are prone to delay. And more delay.

The section on the trainset RFP and hopefully done soon contract award:

Next Generation High-Speed Trainsets for the Northeast Corridor The introduction of Amtraks first generation high-speed trainsets and the start of Acela Express service in late calendar year 2000 represented a watershed event for Amtraks service on the NEC. In FY 2000, the last year before Acela Express began operation, Amtraks NEC operations generated a net operating loss. In FY15, the NEC operations generated an operating surplus of nearly $479 million, down from approximately $500 million in FY14.5 The large majority of this operating surplus, and hence the success of the NEC, is attributable to Acela Express.

Acela Express service is provided by 20 trainsets, each with approximately 300 seats that are based upon early to mid-1990s technology. These trainsets, which are of a design unique to Amtrak, are becoming progressively more difficult and expensive to maintain due to their aging technology. More important, however, are their capacity constraints and inability to meet growing demand. A majority of the departures between Washington and New York City on most days of the week see load factors in excess of 90%. Trains that are completely sold out are becoming an increasingly common occurrence. This reflects potential income Amtrak cannot realize because of the limited capacity.

Amtraks Next Generation High-Speed Trainset Project will address the short-term capacity constraints and position Acela Express service for the long-term. The project will acquire up to 28 contemporary, state-of-the-art, high-speed trainsets to first supplement and eventually replace the legacy Acela Express trainsets. Each will have substantially more seats than the current equipment, and the added number of trainsets will permit Amtrak to operate half-hourly service between Washington and New York City during peak hours and hourly service between New York City and Boston while maintaining the remaining existing schedules. Minimum requirements of the trainsets included that they meet or reduce the existing Acela Express trip times, and preserve or enhance on the existing customer experience.

This project will be the first application of a new tier of passenger equipment safety standards by FRA and the first large Amtrak equipment procurement using performance standards rather than a set of design specifications. Together, they will permit Amtrak to acquire equipment that will be the next generation of high-speed trainsets proven in service overseas. Amtrak published the request for proposals on July 1, 2014. Proposals were received on October 1, 2014 and evaluated, and Amtrak is presently in negotiations with an intended awardee. Amtrak anticipates the delivery of the first prototype trainset 36 months following the notice to proceed (NTP); the first revenue in-service trainset is anticipated 48 months after the NTP and the final revenue service trainset 60 months after the NTP.

A critical element of the project involves financing. In part because of the anticipated strong financial performance of the Acela Express service using the new equipment, in FY14 Congress directed that Amtrak seek to finance this equipment using the USDOTs RRIF Loan Program, whose advantageous terms will maximize the ability of Amtrak to use Acela Express passenger revenues to meet NEC investment needs. The RRIF application for these new trainsets and other investments necessary to position the Acela service for the future was filed with the FRA in July 2014. Amtraks business case supporting the release of the request for proposals shows that incremental growth in NEC revenues resulting from the high-speed trainsets will fund Amtraks debt service obligations associated with the financing. Amtrak anticipates a decision by USDOT on the RRIF application in the second quarter of FY16. A favorable decision on the RRIF application and successful conclusion with the intended awardee on the purchase of the equipment should permit a final decision by the Amtrak Board of Directors to proceed with this project and a NTP to builder late in the second quarter of FY16.
So Amtrak's appears to be waiting on the US DOT to approve the RRIF loan and to complete negotiations with the "intended awardee".
 
So here's a question. I know Acela trainsets are considered a pig to maintain and Amtrak doesn't really want anything to do with them... but...

...the carshells are still good, and Amtrak has a permanent shortage of rolling stock. I wonder if throwing away the power cars, removing the tilt mechanism, attaching ordinary couplers to the front and rear, and using them to supplement the Regional/Keystone fleet would be viable. (The problem of low-level platforms is being solved as we speak.)
 
So here's a question. I know Acela trainsets are considered a pig to maintain and Amtrak doesn't really want anything to do with them... but...

...the carshells are still good, and Amtrak has a permanent shortage of rolling stock. I wonder if throwing away the power cars, removing the tilt mechanism, attaching ordinary couplers to the front and rear, and using them to supplement the Regional/Keystone fleet would be viable. (The problem of low-level platforms is being solved as we speak.)
How much would it cost to modify the Acela coach cars to do all that and install seats for more seats per car? What do they do with the cafe and the first class cars? Then there is the question of maintenance cost and facility capacity. They will be modifying or upgrading the Acela maintenance facilities and the storage tracks for the 28 new HSR trainsets. Can they do that and retain for the longer term, parts and tools for the Acelas? And why the heck would PennDOT have any interest at all in paying for the higher maintenance and operating costs of the Acela trainsets?
It is also not clear that all of the Keystone stations between PHL and HAR will get high level platforms by the time the Acelas are replaced. Yea, sure, there is a ADA compliance lawsuit settlement, but there appears to be nothing happening for the Parkesburg and slow, if any, progress on the new Downingtown station. Station projects get delayed. And delayed.
 
Ah, but would they still have higher maintenance and operating costs if they were turned into hauled coaches? That's my question.

I'm thinking of VIA's practice of using whatever old rolling stock they happen to have lying around. There's just not enough Amfleets, especially with the way they keep getting wrecked...
 
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Ah, but would they still have higher maintenance and operating costs if they were turned into hauled coaches? That's my question.

I'm thinking of VIA's practice of using whatever old rolling stock they happen to have lying around. There's just not enough Amfleets, especially with the way they keep getting wrecked...
They can't be turned into hauled coaches. The coach electronics would not be compatible with other engines.

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The cafe car is an interesting subject. When there was talk about lengthening the ACELA sets, there was a plan to add seats to the cafe car. The estimated cost per cafe was quite high. Quite high! Let's say, prohibitively high.

I can't imagine anything ever becoming of that bad plan of a cafe car. They should preserve it as reminder of what happens when you have displaced airline personnel making decisions as they pass through a railroad on the way to their next job.
 
The cafe car is an interesting subject. When there was talk about lengthening the ACELA sets, there was a plan to add seats to the cafe car. The estimated cost per cafe was quite high. Quite high! Let's say, prohibitively high.
I always wondered why that plan never happened, because I would have assumed (falsely) that it was a cost effective way to add capacity. Interesting.

Of course, it someone was willing to write a big enough check, then yes, the cafe cars could have coach seating and the coaches could be modified for use with any locomotive (P42, ACS-64, etc.). That's not going to happen.
 
Ah, but would they still have higher maintenance and operating costs if they were turned into hauled coaches? That's my question.

I'm thinking of VIA's practice of using whatever old rolling stock they happen to have lying around. There's just not enough Amfleets, especially with the way they keep getting wrecked...
They can't be turned into hauled coaches. The coach electronics would not be compatible with other engines.
Geez, I wonder how they managed to design that level of incompatibility.

Really, my question is whether it's cheaper to hack them into hauled coaches than to *order brand new coaches*, complete with new stainless steel carshells. Ordering brand new coaches is obviously better, but seems to be astronomically expensive.
 
Ah, but would they still have higher maintenance and operating costs if they were turned into hauled coaches? That's my question.

I'm thinking of VIA's practice of using whatever old rolling stock they happen to have lying around. There's just not enough Amfleets, especially with the way they keep getting wrecked...
They can't be turned into hauled coaches. The coach electronics would not be compatible with other engines.
Geez, I wonder how they managed to design that level of incompatibility.

Really, my question is whether it's cheaper to hack them into hauled coaches than to *order brand new coaches*, complete with new stainless steel carshells. Ordering brand new coaches is obviously better, but seems to be astronomically expensive.
There is also the issue of lease agreements; Specifically could Amtrak return the locomotives to the lessor but buy out the lease on the cars? If I'm not mistaken (without looking it up), the option to buy out the first Acela leases happens sometime this calendar year. I'm expecting the train sets to simply be returned and subsequently scrapped once the new trains are accepted, but we'll see.
 
Small problem about high level platforms. CSX has trackage rights Albany to Long island over Amtrak's and MNRR's Albany line.. No way plate "H" cars can go by those high platforms without either station tracks or a gauntlet track past station. Believe passenger cars are classified plate "A" but not sure. Are there any freights to Harrisburg on the Amtrak line ?
 
Ah, but would they still have higher maintenance and operating costs if they were turned into hauled coaches? That's my question.

I'm thinking of VIA's practice of using whatever old rolling stock they happen to have lying around. There's just not enough Amfleets, especially with the way they keep getting wrecked...
They can't be turned into hauled coaches. The coach electronics would not be compatible with other engines.
Geez, I wonder how they managed to design that level of incompatibility.
Really, my question is whether it's cheaper to hack them into hauled coaches than to *order brand new coaches*, complete with new stainless steel carshells. Ordering brand new coaches is obviously better, but seems to be astronomically expensive.
The power cars and coaches are electronically and mechanically married together. Modifying the fleet of Electric or Diesel locomotives would be astronomically expensive, if it were even possible. There are many things totally different. Each coach has an integrated truck surveillance unit that sends signals to the power car on the status of the wheels and journals that are received from sensors on the trucks. If there is a failure speed is automatically restricted. If there is a door open speed is restricted. There are no hand brakes. The parking brake controls are on the power cars. I could go on and on. Acela is what I would call over engineered. They are not going to be able to hack the current fleet of electric and diesel locomotives to haul Acela coaches or hack the coaches.

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Wow. Thanks for the information, Hal.

Given that description... I think the Acela really wasn't a good design, in many ways. Too damn clever; violating the KISS principle.

Yeah, they're gonna have to be scrapped. Nobody will want them.

I was thinking about the LRCs (which were converted from a trainset to locomotive-hauled coaches), the Metroliners (converted from MUs to loco-hauled coaches), and numerous other examples of the same sort of thing. But apparently the Acelas are gratuitously incompatible.
 
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Are any modern distributed traction trains capable of being hacked in that way?

The cafe car is an interesting subject. When there was talk about lengthening the ACELA sets, there was a plan to add seats to the cafe car. The estimated cost per cafe was quite high. Quite high! Let's say, prohibitively high.

I can't imagine anything ever becoming of that bad plan of a cafe car. They should preserve it as reminder of what happens when you have displaced airline personnel making decisions as they pass through a railroad on the way to their next job.
Not having ridden the Acela, what's the problem with the cafe car?
 
Small problem about high level platforms. CSX has trackage rights Albany to Long island over Amtrak's and MNRR's Albany line.. No way plate "H" cars can go by those high platforms without either station tracks or a gauntlet track past station. Believe passenger cars are classified plate "A" but not sure. Are there any freights to Harrisburg on the Amtrak line ?
NS runs locals on the Harrisburg line M-F. NS runs H84 and H83 between Coatesville at W&N Junction and GLEN interlocking then on to Abrams. Having been on both, I can tell you that it's the same train, just a different symbol for crews etc. The 84 crew is O/D at 630a M-F and the 83 crew is O/D at 7p M-F. The largest car I've seen is a I Beam Lumber car. Other then that it's tanks and gons. Occasional covered hopper.
 
Given that description... I think the Acela really wasn't a good design, in many ways. Too damn clever; violating the KISS principle.

Yeah, they're gonna have to be scrapped. Nobody will want them.

I was thinking about the LRCs (which were converted from a trainset to locomotive-hauled coaches), the Metroliners (converted from MUs to loco-hauled coaches), and numerous other examples of the same sort of thing. But apparently the Acelas are gratuitously incompatible.
The issue is integrated train sets. If the cars are designed as part of a combined HSR trainset, in this case, one with tilt, reusing them for anything else is problematical. And too expensive to be worthwhile.

Want more "standard" single level coach cars? Buy them. Figuring the price for a new single level coach car is around $3 to $3.5 million, buying new rolling stock becomes the better option. Which is what Amtrak is doing with the Next Gen HSR trainset order. Which will roughly double the seat capacity for Acela class service on the NEC, so there will be a boost in NEC capacity once the new trainsets are in service.
 
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