Acela II RFP information announcement

[PVD]

With the downturn in the oilfields, the next round of hiring of machinists and welders will be a bit easier for the factories.

 

[Andrew]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

 

[jis]

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

 

[Acela150]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

The Acela sets and HHP's were a Joint venture.. And nothing short of a bad one..

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

Oh come on Jishnu, with the good record that ACS' have right now.. Their is no reason not to go with Siemens.. Wild guess or not. Why wouldn't you pick a builder that has a reliable product on your rails right now. Just because Chuck Schumer opened his mouth last year about such a thing.. Isn't a justified reason to not go with Siemens, or anyone else.

 

[Andrew]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

The Acela sets and HHP's were a Joint venture.. And nothing short of a bad one..

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

Oh come on Jishnu, with the good record that ACS' have right now.. Their is no reason not to go with Siemens.. Wild guess or not. Why wouldn't you pick a builder that has a reliable product on your rails right now. Just because Chuck Schumer opened his mouth last year about such a thing.. Isn't a justified reason to not go with Siemens, or anyone else.

Amtrak and Alstom are about to sign off on the contract. From:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160503/NEWS/160509930

 

[jis]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

The Acela sets and HHP's were a Joint venture.. And nothing short of a bad one..

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

Oh come on Jishnu, with the good record that ACS' have right now.. Their is no reason not to go with Siemens.. Wild guess or not. Why wouldn't you pick a builder that has a reliable product on your rails right now. Just because Chuck Schumer opened his mouth last year about such a thing.. Isn't a justified reason to not go with Siemens, or anyone else.

All that I am saying is you know nothing more than anyone else does here. You are just speculating based on your railfan idea on how contracts are arrived at, which may or may not have anything to do with reality. That is called a SWAG in my book.
I know you work for a railroad and all that, but how many purchase contracts have you negotiated so far to know precisely what logic is used to arrive at a choice?

I am just happy to see the contract put in place and would be happy with either possibility.

 

[Hal]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

The Acela sets and HHP's were a Joint venture.. And nothing short of a bad one..

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

Oh come on Jishnu, with the good record that ACS' have right now.. Their is no reason not to go with Siemens.. Wild guess or not. Why wouldn't you pick a builder that has a reliable product on your rails right now. Just because Chuck Schumer opened his mouth last year about such a thing.. Isn't a justified reason to not go with Siemens, or anyone else.

Some might not agree with you about the record of the ACS-64 being all that good.

As for who they pick. I don't think you understand how the builder will be picked.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract [soon]

from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160503/alstom-amtrak-deal-on-track

That first link seems messed up.

A good story by Jason Jordan, writing in The Evening Tribune of Hornell, NY, the local paper for the factory slated to build the Acela IIs if Alstom wins the contract.

CongressCritter and the Mayor seem to expect the deal to be signed by the end of June, maybe much sooner.

“There’s no reason not to be optimistic,” Mayor Shawn Hogan said. “I’m told that everything is moving along as anticipated and they’re getting the details worked out.”

 

[jis]

Yet another article on the subject that surfaced yesterday....

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160503/NEWS/160509930

 

[Andrew]

The contract should be completed either later this month or in early June!

I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have, and, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

 

[Hal]

The contract should be completed either later this month or in early June!

I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have, and, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

I wonder how some here come up with wonders and questions like the above.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

... I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have, and, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

I wonder how some here come up with wonders and questions like the above.

Sort of like asking, "Are we there yet?"

 

[Hal]

... I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have, and, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

I wonder how some here come up with wonders and questions like the above.

Sort of like asking, "Are we there yet?"

Or "putting the cart before the horse".

 

[west point]

New coaches will not be Amfleet. The FY budget request and 5 year plan seems to imply that design will either be very similar or actual design ( Amtrak owned ) of present V-2s. The budget request on page 28 states more single level cars to be delivered in 2019 so that might give an indication of when contract will be awarded.

 

[jis]

Or more like in an ideal world when they wish to be able to acquire them. That does not mean it will happen anytime around then. I have heard from a very reliable source that the current speculation is that the Amfleet Is and IIs will go through another round of rebuilding before any real new single level cars will materialize. Which suggests that the 2019 date is a fantasy that everyone wishes would come true, but no one is counting on.

 

[keelhauled]

Even if they were ordered tomorrow I wouldn't believe we'd see them delivered in 2019.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have?

And, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

I'm sure you can find into on the seating capacity of the Acela IIs by using Google.

Amtrak won't ask anybody to build anything. Amtrak follows the rules of the federal government. All major purchases are put out to bid, and a lowest or best bid is chosen. Closest to asking anyone to build is that sometimes Amtrak can send a nice letter to various manufacturers, with a set of the specs attached, and "invite" them to bid along with the others.

Siemens will bid to build the single-level cars, I'm sure. Right now they are building cars for Brightline that reportedly meet the Next Gen specs that will apply to any Amtrak order. So they have a head start in the race. But another car builder could be hungrier and put in a lower bid to win the contract.

The last thing close to a joint venture was for the Acelas they have now. It didn't turn out well. Amtrak has no reason to go down that road again. So, No.

And we aren't there yet. But continue to watch this space for any developments.

 

[afigg]

I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have?

And, if they prove extremely reliable--and popular-- that Amtrak will ask Alstom to build the new Amfleet coaches in the future.

Does anyone predict that a joint venture will get the contract for new Amfleet coaches?

I'm sure you can find into on the seating capacity of the Acela IIs by using Google.

Unless the sealed bids from Alstom or the details of what Alstom is offering have been made public or someone has talked out of school, we don't know the proposed exact seating capacity of what Alstom is offering. Amtrak requested a nominal number of seats in the RFP, up to the bidders to propose how seats could fit in their trainsets. Possible seating capacity numbers have been discussed in this thread after all.

As for a large single level car order to replace the Amfleets, that is not going to happen until Amtrak has the funds to do so. But what Amtrak buys will not be entirely up to Amtrak, the east coast state DOTs that pay for the equipment outside of the NEC will have their say along with the US DOT/FRA. They may overrule Amtrak on sticking to a Viewliner 2 design, opting instead for an "off the shelf" model. And as noted, Amtrak will have to issue an open RFP and the contract will go to whoever wins the bid. But the single level coach car replacement order has little to do with the HSR trainset contract.

Last year, the stated plan was to award the contract by the end of the year, in December. If the contract is finally signed off on in June, that is 6 months of delay primarily due to the bureaucratic process of approving the RRIF loan, FRA regulatory approvals, and hammering out the contract. Pushes out the earliest the new trainsets might enter service by 6 months. Oh well.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I wonder how many seats the new train-sets will have?

… you can find info on the seating capacity of the Acela IIs by using Google.

Last year, the stated plan was to award the contract by the end of the year, in December. If the contract is finally signed off on in June, that is 6 months of delay primarily due to the bureaucratic process of approving the RRIF loan, FRA regulatory approvals, and hammering out the contract. Pushes out the earliest the new trainsets might enter service by 6 months. Oh well.

Since Senator Schumer tooted the horn, Alstom has had good reason to believe it will get the contract. Didn't Nippon Sharyo whine that they couldn't find domestic suppliers to meet the 100% Made in America requirement? Now Alstom has had six months to work on that problem.

 

[PerRock]

Has anyone tried FOIA-ing the RFP results from Amtrak? It wouldn't say who won the bid, but would probably give a good indication.

peter

 

[jis]

I bet they will dilly dally responding to the FOIA until the RFP process is completed. They don't have to produce every document if they can find a reason, even a flimsy one, and then leave you to challenge their decision which can take years to resolve. We have played this game with NJT and even Amtrak at times, and at least in one case they have successfully blocked supplying anything for over ten years leaving the only recourse to take them to court, for which no one involved had the financial fortitude.

 

[Chaz]

Running into a brick wall with your FOIA request? Take it public (May 4 '16)

http://www.poynter.org/2016/running-into-a-brick-wall-with-your-foia-request-take-it-public/409958/

Poynter.org supports news reporting & education etc.

They report that ProPublica immediate response got to an online post after 10 months of emailing back & forth w. NYC Dept of Ed.

Don't know if AU can replicate it tho (lol)

 

[PVD]

JIS is right about FOIA. Not only is there quite a bit of delaying by various agencies, remember that quite a bit of material is "FOIA Exempt" and gov't agencies find lots of reasons (excuses) to place items in that category.

 

[jis]

Running into a brick wall with your FOIA request? Take it public (May 4 '16)

http://www.poynter.org/2016/running-into-a-brick-wall-with-your-foia-request-take-it-public/409958/

Poynter.org supports news reporting & education etc.

They report that ProPublica immediate response got to an online post after 10 months of emailing back & forth w. NYC Dept of Ed.

Don't know if AU can replicate it tho (lol)

You really think you are bringing new ideas to deal with FOIA eh? We at NARP and NJ-ARP (and half a dozen other passenger rail advocacy groups) have been at it for at least 20 years now AU is not organized to do such things. it is a web hosting service running a forum. Some issues have appeared repeatedly in public places including such places as NY Times and WSJ, and several US Congressmen have had a go at one of those too. When they want to block, they really know how to do it. Anything that was resolved by ProPublica was probably not something they wanted to invest much in blocking anyway. There is a lot of kneejerk blocking that is done, which gets lifted rather quickly when pressed. And then finally even if you get a document sometimes it has more dark black strikeouts than there is readable text on it, inviting you to go for round three. Been there and done that several times collectively (not me personally).

However, something that involves competitive bidding will not be released until the results of the process are firmly in place. you can rest assured about that. It is sitting firmly in the Exempt category. Only those that have standing to challenge an award can open up the process, not just some random person, unless there is immense proof of malafide I suppose, which puts the whole thing in a different ballpark, and then you have to trace the money and see who might help and who might block and play accordingly.

 

[mrpresident1776]

It is my understanding that Alstom is expected to get the contract for the 28 new Acela Train-sets, unless, of course, there ends up being some kind of joint venture? (Someone said maybe Siemens would get the contract). Read the last paragraph from the link:

http://www.eveningtribune.com/article/20160330/NEWS/160339951

The Acela sets and HHP's were a Joint venture.. And nothing short of a bad one..

Someone who is talking about Siemens is just making a SWAG* which I doubt is based in any concrete inside knowledge.

*SWAG - Simple Wild As*ed Guess

Oh come on Jishnu, with the good record that ACS' have right now.. Their is no reason not to go with Siemens.. Wild guess or not. Why wouldn't you pick a builder that has a reliable product on your rails right now. Just because Chuck Schumer opened his mouth last year about such a thing.. Isn't a justified reason to not go with Siemens, or anyone else.

I think someone already mentioned that Talgo was the other bidder. While Siemens probably bid or looked at bidding, they would have needed a tilting train to achieve the RFP specs. Siemens hasn't made a tilting train for a while now and the ones they did make were not reliable, see ICE DMU, or fast enough as the ICE-T topped out at 140mph. Furthermore, Siemens used the Pendolino tilt system which has since been acquired by Alstom. While Amtrak did not specify tilt as a requirement, they did require a 1h51m travel time between Boston and New Haven, 2h21m between New York and Washington and 6h8m from Boston to Washington. Those times would only be achievable by a tilt train. Alstom makes the great New Pendolino trainsets and the AGV. While the AGV does not tilt, I believe they have design plans for a tilting version. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/bidders-line-up-in-high-speed-race.html