Acela II RFP information announcement

[Ryan]

Once more for possible penetration...

Seeing that they have not chosen to challenge the selection either they are not interested or not capable of meeting the requirements, which would make this discussion of theoretical interest.

 

[jis]

The other thing about Rotem is that they have a pretty miserable track record both on timeliness and quality of product delivered in the US so far. I bet so far they have not made a single penny from the passenger railcar venture in the US. We have no idea what price point they bid in their response. Just because something is available in Korea for some price does not mean diddly-squat about what the price point will be in the US.

 

[internationalpirate]

The other thing about Rotem is that they have a pretty miserable track record both on timeliness and quality of product delivered in the US so far.

Rotem's standard EMUs and KTX-II models and their export derivatives are fine, the KTX-II is run like a subway with hundreds of departures per day yet everything runs smoothly.

We have no idea what price point they bid in their response.

Rotem typical bid at 70% of its European rivals. The difference maybe greater this time because while Alstom is trying to resurrect a discontinued model(AGV), while the KTX-II is in full production, so a cool $1 billion bid price difference is entirely possible.

 

[jis]

But all of this is a bit irrelevant if they have not been selected for whatever reason.

 

[Hal]

The other thing about Rotem is that they have a pretty miserable track record both on timeliness and quality of product delivered in the US so far.

Rotem's standard EMUs and KTX-II models and their export derivatives are fine, the KTX-II is run like a subway with hundreds of departures per day yet everything runs smoothly.

We have no idea what price point they bid in their response.

Rotem typical bid at 70% of its European rivals. The difference maybe greater this time because while Alstom is trying to resurrect a discontinued model(AGV), while the KTX-II is in full production, so a cool $1 billion bid price difference is entirely possible.

But you don't know what Rotem bid. You don't know the difference in bids if any. You have no point at this point.

 

[Ryan]

You have no point at this point.

This may give "solution in search of a problem" a run for the money for Official AU Motto.

 

[Andrew]

It is possible for Sandy's left-over salt in the Hudson Tunnels to damage the new train-sets?

 

[keelhauled]

It is possible for Sandy's left-over salt in the Hudson Tunnels to damage the new train-sets?

No.

 

[jis]

It is possible for Sandy's left-over salt in the Hudson Tunnels to damage the new train-sets?

Really? LOL!

 

[internationalpirate]

It is possible for Sandy's left-over salt in the Hudson Tunnels to damage the new train-sets?

No, but the tunnel could collapse under corrosion and destroy the train set.

 

[jis]

It is possible for Sandy's left-over salt in the Hudson Tunnels to damage the new train-sets?

No, but the tunnel could collapse under corrosion and destroy the train set.

Not if the inspectors, who are actually pretty good, are doing their job. The tunnels will be shut down way before they collapse, or even significant chunks of concrete start falling off the lining. From the reports I have seen, there is no problem with the integrity of the casing. The problem is with the integrity of the concrete lining the inside of the casing, and the conduits that carry the cables and such.

 

[Andrew]

Are you saying that a tunnel closure is very likely before the new train-sets enter revenue service?

 

[jis]

No.

 

[west point]

IMO there are too many variables to know when the first of the north river bores need to be closed. We can easily think of 10 - 20 items that might happen to cause a closure. + The closure might be just for 1 week , 1 Month, 1 year or longer. Do we even know what the tunnel engineers think? It may be 10 tunnel engineers might have 10 different opinions.

 

[jis]

It is one thing to say that the risk of a closure is increasing. It is an entirely different thing to say that something will happen before something else. The only serious person I have seriously spoken to about the state of the tunnel is the guy who owns the problem. His take is that the risks are increasing with passing time. And parenthetically, it is not just the tunnel. It is the Portal bridge. it is the Sawtooth bridge and half a dozen other facilities that have similar issue of increasing risk of failure.leading to closure for a non trivial amount of time to patch it back up. Nothing is about to collapse into a heap of metal and concrete though.

 

[neroden]

People tend to forget Newark Bay, the Passaic and Hackensack Rivers, and the associated swamps. There's a huge amount of infrastructure associated with crossing those, though not as much as crossing the Palisades or the Hudson.

 

[west point]

Everything from including the new tunnel bores to Newark Penn station is supposed to be part of the Gateway project,

 

[Andrew]

A link on Tunnel Repairs: http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/11/repairs_to_sandy-ravaged_rail_tunnels_wont_start_until_end_of_decade.html

And if you look on the bright side, NJ Transit is looking at completing an environmental review for the Hudson Tunnel Project by September 2018: http://www.njtransit.com/AdminTemp/board_agenda_10-14-2015_final.pdf

 

[seat38a]

Thank god they aren't going with KTX ll. Having been on both KTX l imported from France and KTX ll trains, the KTX ll runs much rougher. The inside is much wider and nicer than the KTX l but much bumpier on the same segment of HSR.

KTX ll

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KTX l

P1030062 by

 

Whatever Alstom comes up with, its going to have to be wider than their TGV based train if Amtrak is going to sell coach as "Business Class." When I was on KTX l, I was not too thrilled with the seat width or the aisle width. Everyone that passed by I got bumped by.

 

[Andrew]

I really do hope that Amtrak can finalize the contract with Alstom before the end of the year!

I also have not heard about the option to eliminate first class and replace it with business class in order to increase seating capacity (2 x 2 seating).

 

[Acela150]

Eliminating First Class would be an interesting option. But I don't see it happening.

 

[Fan Railer]

Doesn't first class sell out on certain trains on a regular basis?

 

[MikefromCrete]

Since first class is an extremely profitable niche for Amtrak, I highly doubt if it would be eliminated. And where did that come from anyway? I didn't see any other mention of eliminating first class,other than Andrew's post.

 

[afigg]

I really do hope that Amtrak can finalize the contract with Alstom before the end of the year!

I also have not heard about the option to eliminate first class and replace it with business class in order to increase seating capacity (2 x 2 seating).

What option to eliminate first class service? We have people posting speculative posts about the pending order for 28 HSR trainsets, vendors, possible equipment, and contract costs with little information available on what Amtrak is negotiating for. The original RFP spells out First Class with 2x1 seating with a seat pitch of 1067 mm (42 inches). The new trainsets who ever Amtrak buys them from will have first class seats.

 

[PRR 60]

Since first class is an extremely profitable niche for Amtrak, I highly doubt if it would be eliminated. And where did that come from anyway? I didn't see any other mention of eliminating first class,other than Andrew's post.

I wonder if Acela First is really that profitable for Amtrak. The First Class car has 45 seats. A Business Car has about 65 seats. By airline standards, the up charge for First is pretty modest - about $120 or so NYP-WAS or NYP-BOS. Is the up charge for First enough to compensate for the fewer available revenue seats and the food, beverage and staffing cost of the First Class car?