Adirondack discussion

[railiner]

Does the cafe car remain open and serving after the train crosses the border. The arrival time is 8:16 PM, so should I make sure to eat something before Rouse's Point?

That’s a good question. Unlike the Maple Leaf, where it becomes a VIA Rail operation after entering Canada, Amtrak operates it (as they do on the Cascades), all the way to the end. So there’s no reason to shut down at the border, unless there is some licensing issue with Canada, or the Province. Maybe a tax issue or maybe on alcohol…not sure…

 

[zephyr17]

That’s a good question. Unlike the Maple Leaf, where it becomes a VIA Rail operation after entering Canada, Amtrak operates it (as they do on the Cascades), all the way to the end. So there’s no reason to shut down at the border, unless there is some licensing issue with Canada, or the Province. Maybe a tax issue or maybe on alcohol…not sure…

The Cascades is a wholly Amtrak service that VIA has nothing to do with, other than provide station services in Vancouver. The only joint Amtrak/VIA operation is the Maple Leaf, VIA 97-98/Amtrak 63-64.

The cafe service on the cross border services varies a lot, and I don't think you can project one onto another. On the Maple Leaf, the cafe service is provided by VIA with a VIA attendant and a VIA menu. The get on and off in Niagara Falls, ON and usually open/close around St. Catherines. On the Cascades, it is a wholly Amtrak operation. The cafe closes briefly northbound at Bellingham so the conductors can do one last ID check, and southbound at Blaine for CBP Customs inspection. They provide full service. One idiosyncrasy is there is an (apparently somewhat informal) deal with the BC Liquor board that as long as they're enroute, the train is kind of considered American and the Liquor agency ignores its presence. But, while the cafe is open during boarding at Vancouver, they do not sell any alchoholic beverages. As soon as the wheels start rolling, alcohol is for sale.

I ride the Cascades a lot and the Maple Leaf at least annually and am quite familiar with current practices on both. The last time I rode the Adirondack, though, was several years before COVID. I seem to have a dim memory that the cafe wasn't open southbound out of Montreal until after the US border, but I am really unsure and in any case it was a long time ago.

 

[John Santos]

If the Vermonter ever gets extended to Montreal (even if by Rouse's Point), the one thing that is almost certain is the rules and procedures would be different than the Adirondack, the Maple Leaf and the Cascades. It's Amtrak (and VIA and the US and Canadian governments), Jake.

 

[MARC Rider]

The Cascades is a wholly Amtrak service that VIA has nothing to do with, other than provide station services in Vancouver. The only joint Amtrak/VIA operation is the Maple Leaf, VIA 97-98/Amtrak 63-64.

The cafe service on the cross border services varies a lot, and I don't think you can project one onto another. On the Maple Leaf, the cafe service is provided by VIA with a VIA attendant and a VIA menu. The get on and off in Niagara Falls, ON and usually open/close around St. Catherines. On the Cascades, it is a wholly Amtrak operation. The cafe closes briefly northbound at Bellingham so the conductors can do one last ID check, and southbound at Blaine for CBP Customs inspection. They provide full service. One idiosyncrasy is there is an (apparently somewhat informal) deal with the BC Liquor board that as long as they're enroute, the train is kind of considered American and the Liquor agency ignores its presence. But, while the cafe is open during boarding at Vancouver, they do not sell any alchoholic beverages. As soon as the wheels start rolling, alcohol is for sale.

I ride the Cascades a lot and the Maple Leaf at least annually and am quite familiar with current practices on both. The last time I rode the Adirondack, though, was several years before COVID. I seem to have a dim memory that the cafe wasn't open southbound out of Montreal until after the US border, but I am really unsure and in any case it was a long time ago.

Hmm, might be pretty hungry when I get into Montreal. Might have to look for some smoked meat or poutine somewhere near the station.

 

[Amtrak25]

A print out of the pdf e-ticket is sufficient, which comes with your -email. As long as they have something offical to play with for their stamp pad and stickers.

The QuickTrack machine may give you a hard time and won't do it, saying a Passport is required.

Shoreline East tickets are done by an Amtrak agent in New London. They give you hard tickets on Amtrak ticket stock the old fashioned way. Don't tear off the receipt portion until the conductor punches it. Yes punches it, There is no QR or Bar code.

Get food at Legacy Penn Sation, such as a sandwich at Chick-pea, or whatever it is called and bring a good stainless thermos for your coffee. Cheaper than Amtrak's junk. From what I have read, most eateries in Moynihan are hispter-focused cliip joints. Then go to Moynihan to pay a visit to the Gate Dragons while they impersonate CBSA.

 

[TomPittsfieldMA]

The cafe attendant on the Adirondack can tell you whether he/she will be open in Canada. But food selection can be limited toward the end of a run. I always have something with me on a trip like this.

 

[zephyr17]

Hmm, might be pretty hungry when I get into Montreal. Might have to look for some smoked meat or poutine somewhere near the station.

Don't take my word as gospel, it's been a long time and I am really not very sure.

Gare Central has a good food court, but not sure how late things are open.

If the Vermonter ever gets extended to Montreal (even if by Rouse's Point), the one thing that is almost certain is the rules and procedures would be different than the Adirondack, the Maple Leaf and the Cascades. It's Amtrak (and VIA and the US and Canadian governments), Jake.

Yes, both CBP and CBSA are strongly opposed to onboard inspections and will not support a new one. The much talked about Port of Entry/Preclearance facility at Gare Central will be a precondition of a Vermonter/Montrealer. Neither agency will support anything else. So that facility will have to get unstalled somehow for more Amtrak service to Montreal to become a serious proposal. If it ever does come to pass, the Adirondack would use it, too, and the St. Lambert stop eliminated.

It would be very similar to the current practice at Vancouver for the Cascades. Though it would almost certainly be full Preclearance including US Customs inspection instead of the current "Preclearance-Lite" CBP process at Vancouver that is only a US Immigration inspection. Customs is still done on US soil in Blaine, WA with a walk through by CBP. It's pretty quick and much, much faster than the interminable inspections at Rouses Point.

 

[Amtrak25]

Tim Horton's at Gare Central didn't survive Covid. Just as well. Some Canadian Reddit boards have said TH's have gone downhill very much so over the last few years.

Most Vermont advocates want more frequeines to Montreal obviously. Not just a Vermonter, but an extended Ethan Allen, and overnight Montrealer and know a Preclearance facility in Montreal is required for any of that.

They have not thought through the operational details. 4 trains cannot be accomodated on Track 23 within 3 hours of each other going whichever way while Customs dithers over each train load for a 90 minutes or two hours. There will be a bottleneck with Amtrak trains backed up to the Lachine Canal, possibly impacting VIA's Corridor. So It will not happen.

If they really want these trains, then lobby the Quebec government, Ottawa federal government, and Congess to legislate Customs on both sides right back onto the train, preferebably while moving and end this 9/11 nonsense. Let them kick and scream or they can self-transfer to the southern border. Failing that, be happy with an extended Vermonter and forget the rest.

That’s a good question. Unlike the Maple Leaf, where it becomes a VIA Rail operation after entering Canada, Amtrak operates it (as they do on the Cascades), all the way to the end. So there’s no reason to shut down at the border, unless there is some licensing issue with Canada, or the Province. Maybe a tax issue or maybe on alcohol…not sure…

They close the cafe before the border stop and open thereafter, in each direction.

Best to use the restroom before the border as some of them are paranoid schizophrenics and don't want anyone moving around. They also require use of the dinette car for "interviews" and purchasing of Visas. All too many New Zealanders and Australians don't realize there is a need for that when visting both the US and Canada. CBSA may even haul someone off to the trailer via the cafe car for a strip search.

 

[jis]

Don't take my word as gospel, it's been a long time and I am really not very sure.

Gare Central has a good food court, but not sure how late things are open.

Worst case fallback is the McDonalds which is open quite late well after everything else is shut down for the day. Having used it once or twice, I'd say that, leaving the food aside, it was not a very pleasant place late at night AFAIR.

They close the cafe before the border stop and open thereafter, in each direction.

Keep in mind no alcoholic beverages after crossing into Canada. They have to lock up the booze while in Canada due to Customs rules.

 

[Amtrak25]

Montreal is like Manhattan - you can't walk a block or two in any direction without finding something to eat. Whatever fast food is in Gare Centrale is not that important.

If EXO kills all commuter rail operations from Gare Centrale (St Hilaire and Macouche), leaving only REM, expect more retail closures. Amtrak patron volume doesn't amount to much.