Amtrak announces Siemens as preferred bidder for new equipment

[AM_ROAD]

IF this was suppose to be posted elsewhere please remove.

https://media.amtrak.com/2021/04/amtrak-announces-siemens-as-preferred-bidder-for-new-equipment/
"
New Fleet will Improve Safety and Enhance Customer Experience

WASHINGTON – After a competitive procurement launched in January of 2019, Amtrak has identified California-based Siemens Mobility Inc. (Siemens) as the preferred bidder to manufacture a new fleet of 83 Intercity Trainsets (ICTs), which will provide dual power in many instances and modern rail amenities to better serve all Amtrak customers. The ICTs will operate on the Northeast Corridor, Palmetto and various state-supported routes and will replace the current Amfleet I, Metroliner cab and Cascades service fleets. Accompanying the contract to manufacture the trainsets will be a long-term service agreement for technical support, spares and material supply.

“This new state-of-the-art equipment will not only provide Amtrak customers with an enjoyable and efficient travel experience, it will also enable us to improve safety, increase passenger capacity and reduce carbon emissions,” said Amtrak CEO Bill Flynn.

Amtrak has targeted summer 2021 for contract execution and notice to proceed and will spend the time between now and then continuing negotiations with Siemens for this generational procurement.

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[Cal]

I thought the Cascades were getting the new Talgo 8s?


And I wonder, what will be the replacement for the California Cars on the CC and PS

 

[Tlcooper44]

Great news! The Amfleets on the NEC are, in my opinion, very tired, and in need of replacement. They did a decent job on the overhaul and making them comfortable, but they are way to old, and very outdated. It's always kind of funny seeing them at South Station alongside Acelas.

Personally, I would love to see something similar to the OBB Railjets on the NEC. Boy would that transform the travel experience. I may not even bother with Acela Avelias.

 

[zephyr17]

I thought the Cascades were getting the new Talgo 8s?


And I wonder, what will be the replacement for the California Cars on the CC and PS

No, the new Cascades replacement car order was never going to be Talgo 8s.

Washington DOT announced last year that their intention was to piggyback on the Amtrak corridor order, mainly for economics of scale and standardization of maintenance.

They appear to not want to do any further business with Talgo. The relationship between Talgo and WashDOT has definitely soured, perhaps something to do with Talgo's required maintenance contracts. In any case, WashDOT is pretty adamantly against further dealings with Talgo.

 

[Seaboard92]

I think this is really just a small amount to cover the services coming on or off the NEC. As it talks about having dual power. So I would expect to see these on the Virginia Regionals, the Carolinian, and the Palmetto. I would also expect North Carolina will grab them for the Piedmont as well.

So that will put them on the California Corridors, Cascades Corridor, Chicago Hub Corridors, Keystone, NEC Virginia, Springfield Regionals, the Carolinian, the Palmetto, and the Piedmont.

I could see the lower milage Amfleet Is staying on the Downeaster, and the Empire Service. You could probably redeploy these elsewhere too.

 

[Exvalley]

I think this is really just a small amount to cover the services coming on or off the NEC. As it talks about having dual power. So I would expect to see these on the Virginia Regionals, the Carolinian, and the Palmetto. I would also expect North Carolina will grab them for the Piedmont as well.

So that will put them on the California Corridors, Cascades Corridor, Chicago Hub Corridors, Keystone, NEC Virginia, Springfield Regionals, the Carolinian, the Palmetto, and the Piedmont.

I could see the lower milage Amfleet Is staying on the Downeaster, and the Empire Service. You could probably redeploy these elsewhere too.

That sounds about right. Nonetheless, I am very excited to hear this news. It is a step in the right direction, for sure.

 

[Ryan]

Yes, that's what it says: "The ICTs will operate on the Northeast Corridor, Palmetto and various state-supported routes and will replace the current Amfleet I, Metroliner cab and Cascades service fleets."

Excellent news. Let's get them built and on the road. Don't forget to get your pictures of the old stuff!

 

[jiml]

Good news. The term "trainsets" suggests an order for other single-level coaches and cafes is still to come, so Amfleets will be around for awhile on eastern long and mid-distance trains. It will be interesting to see what New York decides after this.

 

[Cal]

I am a bit unfamilar with it, so what will these cars look like?

 

[jiml]

I am a bit unfamilar with it, so what will these cars look like?

Except for the color scheme and added pantograph:

 

[Mailliw]

So obviously the length of the trainsets will vary depending on route, but a assuming an average of 7 cars per trainset that equals 581 cars!

 

[Chris I]

No, the new Cascades replacement car order was never going to be Talgo 8s.

Washington DOT announced last year that their intention was to piggyback on the Amtrak corridor order, mainly for economics of scale and standardization of maintenance.

They appear to not want to do any further business with Talgo. The relationship between Talgo and WashDOT has definitely soured, perhaps something to do with Talgo's required maintenance contracts. In any case, WashDOT is pretty adamantly against further dealings with Talgo.

I think the relationship definitely soured after WSDOT tried to deflect blame for their derailment onto Talgo. So I guess we keep our (2) Talgo VIII trainsets and a bunch of old Horizons for the next few years while we wait for non-tilting Venture cars. Oh, and they still have no estimate for the Point Defiance Bypass opening...

 

[Cal]

Except for the color scheme and added pantograph:

View attachment 21808

Ah okay, so the Venture Coaches.

They will definitely look weird with the ACS64s pulling them

 

[chrsjrcj]

I think they look fine

 

[rickycourtney]

I think the relationship definitely soured after WSDOT tried to deflect blame for their derailment onto Talgo. So I guess we keep our (2) Talgo VIII trainsets and a bunch of old Horizons for the next few years while we wait for non-tilting Venture cars. Oh, and they still have no estimate for the Point Defiance Bypass opening...

Right, and the two Talgo 8 trainsets are owned by ODOT, not WSDOT.

Ah okay, so the Venture Coaches.

They will definitely look weird with the ACS64s pulling them

It's not 100% sure going to the Venture coaches. It could be the Venture, it could be a new car based on the Venture, a new car based on a existing design (probably from Europe), or an all-new "clean sheet" design.

Also, I'm unsure from this announcement that these trainsets will be pulled by the ACS-64s -- the announcement says the trainsets "which will provide dual power in many instances" -- so some of the trainsets could be self-powered.

 

[jis]

Good news. The term "trainsets" suggests an order for other single-level coaches and cafes is still to come, so Amfleets will be around for awhile on eastern long and mid-distance trains. It will be interesting to see what New York decides after this.

New York has been paying for Amfleet I replacement cars (after resolving a huge flap over it several years back) in their payment to Amtrak for Empire Service. Why would they not use these train sets and let that money buy cars for only others? I would be really surprised if New York chooses to do something else. The dual power theya re talking of are really replacements for the P32ACDMs and they will be similar to the ones that MTA has been developing with Siemens in the background.

Remember the entire staff for handling Empire Service at NSDOT in Albany consists of 2.5 people mostly experts in managing contracts. They are not going to set up their own equipment procurement operation. MTA has nothing to do with Empire Service, nor can it, since it is a compact of counties.

It is quite likely that that there will be an option for rail cars attached to this to cover the entire Amfleet II fleet of course furnished differently. I don't see Amtrak going through a completely new procurement for those, specially when they can freeze in a lower price as part of a larger contract.

 

[jiml]

Unless they're planning to run catenary up the Hudson, does NYS need to pay for electric locomotives? That requirement would seem to inflate the cost of each trainset, so wondered if they'd wait for whatever is the separate coach purchase.

 

[Mailliw]

I doubt it will be anything other than Venture Coaches. The product is already safety tested & FRA approved as well as already being in revenue service in the US. Plus Amtrak already ordered them for CA and the Midwest.

 

[jis]

Unless they're planning to run catenary up the Hudson, does NYS need to pay for electric locomotives? That requirement would seem to inflate the cost of each trainset, so wondered if they'd wait for whatever is the separate coach purchase.

What do you think those dual modes mentioned are for? They are third rail dual modes similar to the MNRR and LIRR ones that have been in the design works for a while now.

 

[jiml]

What do you think those dual modes mentioned are for? They are third rail dual modes similar to the MNRR and LIRR ones that have been in the design works for a while now.

From the bulk of the discussion since the announcement, I assumed the dual-mode reference was for services into Virginia - i.e diesel + catenary. I'm well aware of the Empire requirements, but nowhere did I see these being indicated for those routes.

 

[jiml]

Ah okay, so the Venture Coaches.

They will definitely look weird with the ACS64s pulling them

Why would ACS64's be needed?

 

[jis]

From the bulk of the discussion since the announcement, I assumed the dual-mode reference was for services into Virginia - i.e diesel + catenary. I'm well aware of the Empire requirements, but nowhere did I see these being indicated for those routes.

What is your interpretation of the phrase "state supported routes" then? Why do you think New York would be specially not considered a "state supported route"?

What railfans discussed is hardly a basis for interpreting a document from Amtrak Maybe there will also be catenary dual modes, but there will certainly be third rail dual modes.

 

[jiml]

What is your interpretation of the phrase "state supported routes" then? Why do you think New York would be specially not considered a "state supported route"?

What railfans discussed is hardly a basis for interpreting a document from Amtrak Maybe there will also be catenary dual modes, but there will certainly be third rail dual modes.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but wondering if there are enough in this order to cover all NER and state-supported routes like Pennsylvania and south of Washington, before even considering a separate type for New York.

 

[jis]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but wondering if there are enough in this order to cover all NER and state-supported routes like Pennsylvania and south of Washington, before even considering a separate type for New York.

I don't understand why you give New York State this special dispensation. They are a standard Amtrak State contract. Amtrak owns and leases their entire equipment pool which is a subpool of the NEC pool. They are no different from any of the other NEC related state contracts. Yes they need dual modes, it is actually also possible that they'd simply use catenary dual mode, coming to think of it. So we'll just have to wait and see what the details are.

 

[nullptr]

From the bulk of the discussion since the announcement, I assumed the dual-mode reference was for services into Virginia - i.e diesel + catenary. I'm well aware of the Empire requirements, but nowhere did I see these being indicated for those routes.

Why would ACS64's be needed?

It says dual power, not dual-mode, for what it's worth. I think this still could end up being a charger on one end and a ACS64 on the other.