AlamoWye
Train Attendant
Is a sleeper for 2 still going to be based on one redemption per the total cost, or is it going to require 2 redemptions? The airlines, of course, don't have this situation.
Amtrak Guest Rewards 2.0 Coming January 2016
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printman2000
Engineer
I assume it is based on the total cost of what it would cost for two in a sleeper. So, no. They will still have to pay the railfare with points.
BCL
Engineer
It's going to be a single redemption based on the retail price. So there won't be anything like a flat rate redemption (based on room type) whether it's one or four. Each additional passenger will be assessed a transportation charge, although children will be eligible for a 50% discount.
No complaints from me so far.
Looking at just a few of the trips I want to take this year and next makes me wish the program was in effect right now so I could book them.
I was thinking of going to NOLA in Nov.
A roomette CHI-NOL on select days in Nov. would be less than 8,000 points with the new program - that's a big reduction from the 20K one zone redemption - I'll probably just wait.
Business class on my home train is approx. 600 points less - less than the original 1500 points just for coach.
A roomette on select days in March * CHI - SAF a little over 13,000 points * CHI - NYP a little over 16,000 * CHI-NOL a little under 11,000 * CHI-DAL right around 10,000
.
If there isn't an enormous fare increase in 2016, it looks like the new program is going to work to my benefit, especially since I don't travel during peak vacation times.
AmSnag is going to be even more valuable now, imo.
Looking at just a few of the trips I want to take this year and next makes me wish the program was in effect right now so I could book them.
I was thinking of going to NOLA in Nov.
A roomette CHI-NOL on select days in Nov. would be less than 8,000 points with the new program - that's a big reduction from the 20K one zone redemption - I'll probably just wait.
Business class on my home train is approx. 600 points less - less than the original 1500 points just for coach.
A roomette on select days in March * CHI - SAF a little over 13,000 points * CHI - NYP a little over 16,000 * CHI-NOL a little under 11,000 * CHI-DAL right around 10,000
.
If there isn't an enormous fare increase in 2016, it looks like the new program is going to work to my benefit, especially since I don't travel during peak vacation times.
AmSnag is going to be even more valuable now, imo.
Rail Freak
Engineer
Being from the Tampa bay area, I'm not thrilled ! The current system allows me a trip STP-DEN for 20k & the new system will cost me 35k pts. But I can see ( & understand ) Amtraks thinking. Now, with every price increase will also be an increase in point redemption!
I can't say I give up on Amtrak, but will sure be traveling with them a Hell of alot less!!!!
I can't say I give up on Amtrak, but will sure be traveling with them a Hell of alot less!!!!
BCL
Engineer
I'm wondering what will happen to point buying. I was always kind of amused that people would really want to buy points over several years just to save up for sleeper redemptions that would actually cost less in terms of dollars spent. It just seemed kind of odd to me. Now that they'll have a combination of points and dollars, it might make less sense to buy points ahead of time.
Overall, my reaction is very "meh" to the changes.
Pluses:
- Shorter redemptions are much cheaper. For example, the $19 coach tickets MSP - WIN are now 800 point redemptions (and the $26 SCD - WIN are about 900 points) versus 5,500 in the old system. This will be especially nice for new AGR members: a longer trip plus the sign-on bonus should get them a short redemption for free very quickly. Sleeper redemptions on shorter trips are also cheaper. Two people in a roomette SCD - CHI is now 8,660 points at low bucket (or so it looks) versus 15,000. (This is for two people.)
- Any activity keeps points active for an additional 36 months, even something as simple as buying a bar of soap through Walmart.com in the portal.
Minuses:
- Longer redemptions are not advantageous anymore. An ATL - SCD redemption is now 31,602 for (presumably) low bucket on the Crescent/Cap/Builder, and 39,951 on Crescent/Card/Builder. (Again, this is for two people in a roomette.) Under the current system it is 20,000 points. However, I'd often fly on this route anyways (though I have taken it by rail once) as it's a two night affair and I often don't have that much time to spare.
- The 100 point minimum is gone, which means any chance of me getting status in the near future is gone, at least from rail travel. Granted, I've never had status, so it's no loss there, but it was a nice way to top up the points balance some as well.
If I were to improve it, here would be my thoughts:
- Add a bonus for sleeper travel and the "flexible" coach fare. Maybe 25% bonus on those fares? I almost never see the need to buy the Value fare over the Flexible fare, so adding something to that value proposition may help to make it more appealing.
- Restore the 100 point minimum. Granted, being able to get 400 points from SPL - MSP roundtrip or WIN - SCD roundtrip (thanks to the 100 points and split ticketing on 7/8 and 27/28) was almost too good to be true, but it was nice and it would be one nice benefit to have back. (I suppose getting rid of the split ticket loophole would be fine if it would restore the 100 point minimum otherwise.
)
Pluses:
- Shorter redemptions are much cheaper. For example, the $19 coach tickets MSP - WIN are now 800 point redemptions (and the $26 SCD - WIN are about 900 points) versus 5,500 in the old system. This will be especially nice for new AGR members: a longer trip plus the sign-on bonus should get them a short redemption for free very quickly. Sleeper redemptions on shorter trips are also cheaper. Two people in a roomette SCD - CHI is now 8,660 points at low bucket (or so it looks) versus 15,000. (This is for two people.)
- Any activity keeps points active for an additional 36 months, even something as simple as buying a bar of soap through Walmart.com in the portal.
Minuses:
- Longer redemptions are not advantageous anymore. An ATL - SCD redemption is now 31,602 for (presumably) low bucket on the Crescent/Cap/Builder, and 39,951 on Crescent/Card/Builder. (Again, this is for two people in a roomette.) Under the current system it is 20,000 points. However, I'd often fly on this route anyways (though I have taken it by rail once) as it's a two night affair and I often don't have that much time to spare.
- The 100 point minimum is gone, which means any chance of me getting status in the near future is gone, at least from rail travel. Granted, I've never had status, so it's no loss there, but it was a nice way to top up the points balance some as well.
If I were to improve it, here would be my thoughts:
- Add a bonus for sleeper travel and the "flexible" coach fare. Maybe 25% bonus on those fares? I almost never see the need to buy the Value fare over the Flexible fare, so adding something to that value proposition may help to make it more appealing.
- Restore the 100 point minimum. Granted, being able to get 400 points from SPL - MSP roundtrip or WIN - SCD roundtrip (thanks to the 100 points and split ticketing on 7/8 and 27/28) was almost too good to be true, but it was nice and it would be one nice benefit to have back. (I suppose getting rid of the split ticket loophole would be fine if it would restore the 100 point minimum otherwise.
)
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jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Amsnag now needs to add a column for "Required AGR points"
One good thing out of all this is now there will be one less thing to worry about. Since the possibility of being even Select becomes progressively more remote, so one can just give up on it and reduce the number of spurious train trips.
I was thinking that when United went to revenue based stuff and changed their points accrual to revenue base, they did not change their elite qualification to be based on the revenue based points accrual, but still based on actual bis miles + class bonus, together with an explicit dollar base for each level. So for example Platinum takes 75,000 bis + bonus miles (which can have some fare class based bonuses added on) plus a spend of $9,000 ex-taxes on fares. That changes the dynamics considerably of the program from a pure revenue based tier qualification. If you have a pile of money to burn then a pure revenue based tier qualification is more time efficient. In what United did you cannot just buy into a tier with one humongously expensive trip. You actually have to spend at least some time traveling the requisite number of miles, though the class bonuses help out a little. For lifetime benefits which can be quite valuable you can't even use the class bonuses anymore.
Of course it is another matter that to spend $5000 on Amtrak you may have to spend more than a week traveling around to random places, or do a couple of weeks of regular round trips on Acelas or something like that.
One good thing out of all this is now there will be one less thing to worry about. Since the possibility of being even Select becomes progressively more remote, so one can just give up on it and reduce the number of spurious train trips.
I was thinking that when United went to revenue based stuff and changed their points accrual to revenue base, they did not change their elite qualification to be based on the revenue based points accrual, but still based on actual bis miles + class bonus, together with an explicit dollar base for each level. So for example Platinum takes 75,000 bis + bonus miles (which can have some fare class based bonuses added on) plus a spend of $9,000 ex-taxes on fares. That changes the dynamics considerably of the program from a pure revenue based tier qualification. If you have a pile of money to burn then a pure revenue based tier qualification is more time efficient. In what United did you cannot just buy into a tier with one humongously expensive trip. You actually have to spend at least some time traveling the requisite number of miles, though the class bonuses help out a little. For lifetime benefits which can be quite valuable you can't even use the class bonuses anymore.
Of course it is another matter that to spend $5000 on Amtrak you may have to spend more than a week traveling around to random places, or do a couple of weeks of regular round trips on Acelas or something like that.
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I'm still unclear as to how one will "calculate" how many points it would take on any given day, (I know the amount will vary based on sales on said date) to have TWO adults, occupy a roomette from CHI to WAS on the Cap?
Can someone 'splain it to me?
Can someone 'splain it to me?
I think it's just whatever the fare would be for two adults in that roomette calculated against the calculator on the "sneak peek" AGR website. (I would surmise that there will be an additional cost for the second person, just as there is now if paying with cash.)
Manny T
OBS Chief
^ Correct (I think). How much will their tickets cost? Plug that dollar amount into the points needed calculator. I'm sure when the new program kicks in and you are about to redeem an award, the calculator will be right there to show you the points needed.
Thank you MiRider I think you are exactly right. If you generalize and say "the new AGR stinks -- it's a devaluation and renders the program worthless," you can't possibly be right when (i) earnings remains the same (except the 100 point minimum goes away) and (ii) many award tickets will eat up fewer points (based on the ticket price).
The people who are complaining are probably heavy users who try to game the system right and left for every advantage, however slight. Some of this may go away. I think the average AGR member who travels "normally," earns an award "occasionally" and has the flexibility to research ticket prices in advance will find the new program is just fine for them.
Thank you MiRider I think you are exactly right. If you generalize and say "the new AGR stinks -- it's a devaluation and renders the program worthless," you can't possibly be right when (i) earnings remains the same (except the 100 point minimum goes away) and (ii) many award tickets will eat up fewer points (based on the ticket price).
The people who are complaining are probably heavy users who try to game the system right and left for every advantage, however slight. Some of this may go away. I think the average AGR member who travels "normally," earns an award "occasionally" and has the flexibility to research ticket prices in advance will find the new program is just fine for them.
That's what I'm thinking too..... and I've come up with less than 20K (16,800) for this sample too, but also came up with 23K
As has been said Sooooooooooooo many times on this board, and now it's more true than EVER: YMMV!
BCL
Engineer
It was rather sweet that I could work my points-earning into an actual commute to work. However, it also created an incentive to book single tickets and find every possible discount to make it worth my while.
However, I was thinking that during something like the Capitol Corridor 50% off weekend special, 25 days of RIC-EMY-SFC-EMY-RIC trips would have cost $300 to get to Select Plus, which is actually less than an annual membership for United Club. I did that occasionally, but not that often. However, it did seem kind of absurd that it would be possible to put in the time to do this. Yeah - I knew it was gaming the system to some extent, but the 100 point minimum was the great equalizer if you lived in one of these areas.
BCL
Engineer
I'd guess that means you might not be able to apply a discount that could be applied to cash fares.
BCL
Engineer
It might work for me if I can accumulate points under the old system while I can and then redeem under the new one. However, I never did do any of the redemption gaming.
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I have a pattern of taking trips to Lancaster and Harrisburg at low Keystone prices so the loss of the 100-point minimum, which got me chasing S+ when I moved to PA, will certainly dump me out of S+. I might drop to Select this year anyway, although may be close enough for extra runs to earn me a last hurrah at S+ in 2016.
http://twitter.com/jacorbett70/status/636991738821873664
Meanwhile I went on that site and tested redemption costs for a typical autumn time when I would likely travel. (Week of October 22)
It does cost more when the buckets go up. When they are low I am likely to pay instead of redeem. If I redeem low buckets, that would make S+ impossible and Select borderline. I'd check what I would get with Select nowadays maybe a limited number of Club Acela passes would make it worth it if i am hanging in the upper 4000s at the end of the year.
http://twitter.com/jacorbett70/status/636992165915324417
http://twitter.com/jacorbett70/status/636991738821873664
Meanwhile I went on that site and tested redemption costs for a typical autumn time when I would likely travel. (Week of October 22)
It does cost more when the buckets go up. When they are low I am likely to pay instead of redeem. If I redeem low buckets, that would make S+ impossible and Select borderline. I'd check what I would get with Select nowadays maybe a limited number of Club Acela passes would make it worth it if i am hanging in the upper 4000s at the end of the year.
http://twitter.com/jacorbett70/status/636992165915324417
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
This will certainly the last time I qualify for S+, which I will upon completing my AU Gathering trip. Next year I will be lucky to make Select. I guess I will just have to use my United Club Card to use the Club Acelas on the NEC. With the new club in Chicago I hope they get it associated with priority pass. I have written to them suggesting they do. Worst cas a BC ticket to somewhere close by would suffice to use the Met Club if absolutely necessary. Actually I mostly go to chicago by Sleeper anyway, so it might just be a non issue. Then again maybe I will go to Chicago less by train, though for just going from NYP or WAS it is point wise cheaper in many cases in AGR 2.0. Going there from Florida OTOH is a different matter, specially when I can get $350-$400 RT air tickets all the time. Sigh....
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
Amtrak's new motto of late?
Amtrak: Where we constantly strive to give you less for more!
Amtrak: Where we constantly strive to give you less for more!
George K
Conductor
I'm not seeing anything about the termination of points transfer from Chase Sapphire or Hilton Honors.
Am I missing something?
Am I missing something?
You know, one thing of particular note (and not in a good way) is that Anthony, in a Facebook post, directed everyone to post on FlyerTalk (and only made mention of FT). They may be little things, but they do create a bad rub.
As I told Charlie, I'm not to the point of burning the strip on my SE card but I'm (clearly) mad as hell and AGR just earned Virgin America a bunch of business from me courtesy of AGR. If I'm dead set on taking a train transcontinental, VIA just got an edge over Amtrak (where there's still variety in food, good drink, and I have top-tier status as well). This is more of the "last straw", but if I'm going to get screwed with redemption switch penalties alongside crap OTP...well, let's just say that I'm not thrilled.
And lastly, the marketing has me all out of sorts (this sorta wrecked the last 8 hours of my trip on the Ocean).
Edit: I may not be burning the strip on my SE card, but I'm going to seriously consider switching to a generic Chase UR card with 2x travel rewards so I can kick those rewards to Virgin Atlantic. Non-Amtrak use of my AGR card was already being held back; it may drop to zero at this point.
As I told Charlie, I'm not to the point of burning the strip on my SE card but I'm (clearly) mad as hell and AGR just earned Virgin America a bunch of business from me courtesy of AGR. If I'm dead set on taking a train transcontinental, VIA just got an edge over Amtrak (where there's still variety in food, good drink, and I have top-tier status as well). This is more of the "last straw", but if I'm going to get screwed with redemption switch penalties alongside crap OTP...well, let's just say that I'm not thrilled.
And lastly, the marketing has me all out of sorts (this sorta wrecked the last 8 hours of my trip on the Ocean).
Edit: I may not be burning the strip on my SE card, but I'm going to seriously consider switching to a generic Chase UR card with 2x travel rewards so I can kick those rewards to Virgin Atlantic. Non-Amtrak use of my AGR card was already being held back; it may drop to zero at this point.
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True this! Right out of the Old SP Playbook and copycatting the Airlines!
Carolina Special
Lead Service Attendant
An article over at Trains Magazine says that Amtrak won't comment on the Amtrak Guest Rewards card until 9/12. Points transfers can continue "until further notice".
Not clear what the further notice will be.
Not clear what the further notice will be.
amamba
Engineer
So for me, a couple of things.
I probably won't be taking LD sleeper trips anymore all the way cross country. I'm glad I was able to do my CZ, EB, and SWC trips already. I just priced out a trip that I normally take in March and for me to take the LSL to the CZ to the CS (BOS - SEA) is 52,000 in a ROOMETTE. Not happening.
On the other hand, I might have my H use up all his points on a monthly passes for commuting, so that's a nice addition. Plus a $49 saver fare from NYP - PVD on the regional is now a reasonable use of miles for redemption purposes.
I probably won't be taking LD sleeper trips anymore all the way cross country. I'm glad I was able to do my CZ, EB, and SWC trips already. I just priced out a trip that I normally take in March and for me to take the LSL to the CZ to the CS (BOS - SEA) is 52,000 in a ROOMETTE. Not happening.
On the other hand, I might have my H use up all his points on a monthly passes for commuting, so that's a nice addition. Plus a $49 saver fare from NYP - PVD on the regional is now a reasonable use of miles for redemption purposes.
