Amtrak Guest Rewards 2.0 Coming January 2016

[Notelvis]

Thumbnail Quick Check -

I redeemed 15,000 points a few days ago for a March 2016 roomette from Atlanta to Philadelphia.

Per the point estimator, this trip would be 17,388 points under the new program.

In the coming days I'll comparison shop some other trips and decide whether or not I want to book another trip or two before January 24.

 

[seat38a]

They should have at least kept the 100 point minimum for Business Class system wide. If fare x 2.25 is < 100 then give the minimum 100. This still discourages points run system wide but if your willing to pay the premium for BC, I'm thinking reward them NOT punish them.

 

[rtabern]

I cant believe that many people were doing "point runs" that it was such a problem to eliminate the 100 point minimum. Maybe many of us on here were, but not your typical passengers. My conductor friends on the Hiawatha said I was about one of four people who would do such runs. Oh well... instead of spending $700 and contirbuting 100-200 ridership stats to the Hiawatha... I will use that money to buy United Club status. Guess Amtrak doest want my money and stats anymore. Thats fine...

 

[jis]

If the Acela 500/750 minimums are gone then it stands to reason that all minimums are gone. Not that I like it mind you, but at least there is logic to simplifying the system to be purely revenue based. BC already gets a bonus. It is just revenue based.

Except for corner cases, United Club membership has always been easier to purchase than to obtain it via countless hours spent on points runs and what no to get to S+, unless in ones daily life one does that kind of Amtrak travel anyway, which I can see could be the case for you. Yeah it just became relatively even easier to lean towards just purchasing UC membership. And now that you are set free, you can actually do comparison shopping and select an airline club or something like Priority Pass which might work better for your situation if you are not married to a single airline.

Since I actually do fly a lot, and that too by United for various reasons, I never depended on Amtrak S+ for getting access to United Club. For that I just used an appropriate United credit cards whereby you get a discount on the club membership and get to collect a bunch of united points, which again for me have always been way more useful than Amtrak points. As is said it depends on ones situation and YMMV.

Ironically, it looks like now I will have to use my United Club membership to get access to Club Acelas! I already did this many times earlier this year when AGR forgot to send me my S+ credentials.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Since redemptions will be Fare Based, will discounted fares ( Senior, AAA etc) be the basis for the number of required points, or will they be a flat current Bucket rate when booked for everyone?

Booking up to 11 months in advance right now is usually High Bucket, so the number of points will be the max.Then, if the Fare goes down, as they do, you will lose points to make modifications due to the new penalty policy!

And as was said, the Draconian Cancellation and Modification penalties of 10-20% of the points isn't anything to make members happy either!

This can really cost members heavily if something happens that requires a cancellation of an expensive trip!

Stuff happens, AGR used to work with us on this! Amtrak should be happy if a cancellation of a point trip opens up a High Bucket room for a paying passenger! What would be wrong with a flat 14 day Before departure penalty, not the proposed 10 and 20% Draconian measure?

 

[rrdude]

For what it's worth.

On Nov 3rd of this year, under the EXISTING AGR, a roomette from DC to Chicago would cost you 20,000 points. Under the NEW AGR, that exact same roomette will only cost 8,901. THAT is a *HUGE* difference. Hell, you could do the trip TWICE, with points left over under the NEW AGR plan..... Now, that's because the price for the Cap Ltd, at THAT time of year is so low. It's conceivable that during PEAK travel periods, it could cost MORE than 20,000. YMMV. (Pretty much the same ration for a Bedroom 17K for NEW, vs. 40K for OLD)

Granted, WAS to CHI, using points for a sleeper, not the most beneficial two-zone redemption, but, it shows the program changes swing both ways.

 

[seat38a]

I cant believe that many people were doing "point runs" that it was such a problem to eliminate the 100 point minimum. Maybe many of us on here were, but not your typical passengers. My conductor friends on the Hiawatha said I was about one of four people who would do such runs. Oh well... instead of spending $700 and contirbuting 100-200 ridership stats to the Hiawatha... I will use that money to buy United Club status. Guess Amtrak doest want my money and stats anymore. Thats fine...

If anything, they should have eliminated the bus connection garnering the 100 point minimum. So if your going from Socal to Norcal, and it involved two bus connection and 2 trains, you ended up getting 400 points for that day.

Ex:

Fullerton to LAX via Surfliner

Bus to Bakersfield

Bakersfield to Emeryville

Emeryville to San Francisco Bus Stops

 

[seat38a]

If the Acela 500/750 minimums are gone then it stands to reason that all minimums are gone. Not that I like it mind you, but at least there is logic to simplifying the system to be purely revenue based. BC already gets a bonus. It is just revenue based.

Except for corner cases, United Club membership has always been easier to purchase than to obtain it via countless hours spent on points runs and what no to get to S+, unless in ones daily life one does that kind of Amtrak travel anyway, which I can see could be the case for you. Yeah it just became relatively even easier to lean towards just purchasing UC membership. And now that you are set free, you can actually do comparison shopping and select an airline club or something like Priority Pass which might work better for your situation if you are not married to a single airline.

Since I actually do fly a lot, and that too by United for various reasons, I never depended on Amtrak S+ for getting access to United Club. For that I just used an appropriate United credit cards whereby you get a discount on the club membership and get to collect a bunch of united points, which again for me have always been way more useful than Amtrak points. As is said it depends on ones situation and YMMV.

Ironically, it looks like now I will have to use my United Club membership to get access to Club Acelas! I already did this many times earlier this year when AGR forgot to send me my S+ credentials.

Oh wow, they updated the calculator over night. It still calculated the minimums for Acela yesterday when I played with it.

 

[siberianmo]

G'day Rail Travelers,

What I am posting is for the information of those interested in a point of view that is mine regarding the announcement of forthcoming changes to Amtrak's Guest Reward program.

As one will see within my submission, my travels aboard Amtrak are frequent for long-distance travel and always in bedrooms. My comments to Amtrak's Guest Reward have to do with not only the changes to a program that has worked quite well for my wife and I over the years; notwithstanding the "jump" in 2012 for point redemptions - but some travel input thrown in (i.e.: rant).

It is my hope that my submission will add to the discussion, rather than detract from it. I should add that I am a dyed-in-the-wool passenger train addict; not necessarily a "fan" of Amtrak, who happens to be the only "game" in town.

Since these comments are mine and mine alone, I have no desire to defend any of them. Of course points of view are like noses, we all have one!

Now to the point of this thread, which are Email's regarding this issue:

===================================================



--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxxx
Date: 8/27/2015 11:41:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Tell us what you think

Source: Member Web Member Number: xxxxxxxxx Name: xxxxxxxxx Respond Via Email: Yes Subject: Tell us what you think Comments: I travel by train for pleasure with and without my wife. A check of my history (xxxxxxxxx) will reveal extensive personal travel, mostly on long-distance routes, and always in bedrooms.

Unless I have missed something with regard to your new points program being implemented in January 2016:

Those of us in the Select Plus category will be redeeming MORE points than in the past.

For example, I book travel aboard #5 at least annually. Those trips from Chicago to Sacramento are in bedroom accommodations. Currently, I redeem 40k points for that trip (which not that long ago was far fewer!) and it appears that far more will be required for future bookings. If so, shame on Amtrak for destroying what perhaps was the finest points program in the travel industry.

I think you are patterning your program after the airlines, which of course has deteriorated to the bottom of the barrel.

As Amtrak continues to offer Spartan amenities in the bedrooms and sleeping cars, fewer choices in the dining car, less than well maintained equipment along with a ridiculous on-time-arrival record for many routes, my travel will definitely decrease as a result of this change.

Why in the world Amtrak seems bent on chasing travelers away as opposed to enticing them is beyond comprehension.

My wife and I have recently traveled aboard the Coast Starlight - a train that once was perhaps the premier of them all. On our last trip in April of this year, it was just another trip; nothing special aside from the Pacific Parlour Car - which is outstanding providing one is fortunate enough to get a motivated attendant.

We have traveled aboard the Empire Builder on three occasions this year, pretty much with the same "blah" feeling. No more wine & cheese events for bedroom passengers; no more trivial pursuit; shorter stops at places that used to be at least 20 minutes to a half hour; refueling BEFORE letting passengers off, etc.

Our journeys aboard the eastbound Southwest Chief were disastrous in terms of making connections in Kansas City from Los Angeles. Now one has to wait until 4 PM for the next train to St. Louis where in the recent past one could book the 8:15 AM train. No more.

I absolutely believe no one at the boardroom level gives a damn - but I do and it is after all, my money!



Re: Tell us what you think [#xxxxxxxxx]

From: AGR Customer Service <[email protected]>



To:xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2015 07:53 PM

Thank you for your email regarding our redemption changes.

It's always a hard decision to make when modifying rates, however, since redemption rates for Amtrak travel have not changed since January 2012 (some have not changed since we launched in 2001) we had to bring the redemption rates in line with today's costs.

The program also continues to offer frequent promotions to members to help them earn points quickly and easily. We do appreciate your business and value you as an Amtrak Guest Rewards member.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxxxx
Amtrak Guest Rewards Service Center

 

[Bob Dylan]

Boilerplate, computer generated form letter! Blah,Blah, Yada, Yada!!!!

The Bean Counters and political appeasers and hacks have taken over Amtrak Management.

The good people such as the front line, day to day workers that actually do the work and face the customers, have no say in any of the changes @ Amtrak and neither do the Customers!

Give us your money and shut up is the new Motto! If you don't like it, someone else will take your room.or seat, no matter how much we downgrade service and amenities and raise prices!

The race to the bottom with the Airlines and Busess is on, and we're the ones who lose!

 

[tonys96]

For what it's worth.

On Nov 3rd of this year, under the EXISTING AGR, a roomette from DC to Chicago would cost you 20,000 points. Under the NEW AGR, that exact same roomette will only cost 8,901. THAT is a *HUGE* difference. Hell, you could do the trip TWICE, with points left over under the NEW AGR plan..... Now, that's because the price for the Cap Ltd, at THAT time of year is so low. It's conceivable that during PEAK travel periods, it could cost MORE than 20,000. YMMV. (Pretty much the same ration for a Bedroom 17K for NEW, vs. 40K for OLD)

Granted, WAS to CHI, using points for a sleeper, not the most beneficial two-zone redemption, but, it shows the program changes swing both ways.

Using current AGR, DAL to WAS in February is 20000 points in sleeper for two. Under new estimator it is 37000. Nearly double.

 

[BCL]

Except for corner cases, United Club membership has always been easier to purchase than to obtain it via countless hours spent on points runs and what no to get to S+, unless in ones daily life one does that kind of Amtrak travel anyway, which I can see could be the case for you. Yeah it just became relatively even easier to lean towards just purchasing UC membership. And now that you are set free, you can actually do comparison shopping and select an airline club or something like Priority Pass which might work better for your situation if you are not married to a single airline.

Well - I did waste many an hour chasing Select Plus. I also spent a bit more. However, it was for my commute, so it wasn't as if all the time was just being wasted away chasing the dream of sitting in a United Club location (which I've done a grand total of once).

However, my numbers worked out differently. I was calculating how much it might cost in terms of TQPs. The minimum points became the great equalizer. Granted - I've gotten the 100 points for a segment that was listed in my transactions as a $1 ticket price, but that's unusual (promotional price plus it was a bus). But for my commute ride it was a matter of how much it would cost and whether or not the marginal price was worth it. For example, I could get a 10-ride ticket for maybe $106 for my regular ride, which would yield 212 points, and still will. However, I would split up my mornings into a multi-city and take a straight shot home for a promotional discount price of $13.50. So five round trips cost $135, but yielded 1500 TQPs. I do that a little less than 7 times I've made Select Plus. 7 of those 10-ride tickets and I haven't even made it a third of the way to Select. 33 round trips plus one more segment and I'm there for just over $900, and I've spent that time commuting to/from work. 7 10-ride tickets cost me $742, and maybe I have enough points for a special route.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, YMMV!

How fair is that? We out here in flyover country, and where there are few to no trains, are not benefitting from this!

As has been said, the days of the Loooong Amtrak trips are over for most of us! ( cost prohibitive/harder to earn points).

What a shame, copying the Airlines and using the SP Playbook! Is this any way tonrun a railroad?

 

[rtabern]

So, let's say I get the United Airlines CC with the $495 annual fee... that lets you have access to their lounges. Does this also get me into all Amtrak lounges? Would I be allowed to bring a guest into the lounges (both UA and Amtrak)?

If the Acela 500/750 minimums are gone then it stands to reason that all minimums are gone. Not that I like it mind you, but at least there is logic to simplifying the system to be purely revenue based. BC already gets a bonus. It is just revenue based.

Except for corner cases, United Club membership has always been easier to purchase than to obtain it via countless hours spent on points runs and what no to get to S+, unless in ones daily life one does that kind of Amtrak travel anyway, which I can see could be the case for you. Yeah it just became relatively even easier to lean towards just purchasing UC membership. And now that you are set free, you can actually do comparison shopping and select an airline club or something like Priority Pass which might work better for your situation if you are not married to a single airline.

Since I actually do fly a lot, and that too by United for various reasons, I never depended on Amtrak S+ for getting access to United Club. For that I just used an appropriate United credit cards whereby you get a discount on the club membership and get to collect a bunch of united points, which again for me have always been way more useful than Amtrak points. As is said it depends on ones situation and YMMV.

Ironically, it looks like now I will have to use my United Club membership to get access to Club Acelas! I already did this many times earlier this year when AGR forgot to send me my S+ credentials.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Unless you're going to fly alot Rob, you'd probably be better off just joining the new Lounge in the Great Hall!

As much as you go to CHI it would be cheaper! This is why I dropped my AMEX Card when I retired, didn't fly anymore or use fancy Hotels and the annual fee was too high!

Id wait and check out the offers on the new BOA AGR Cards coming next month!

 

[jis]

So, let's say I get the United Airlines CC with the $495 annual fee... that lets you have access to their lounges. Does this also get me into all Amtrak lounges? Would I be allowed to bring a guest into the lounges (both UA and Amtrak)?

United Club members only get into Club Acelas. Not into any other lounges run by Amtrak.

For what it's worth.

On Nov 3rd of this year, under the EXISTING AGR, a roomette from DC to Chicago would cost you 20,000 points. Under the NEW AGR, that exact same roomette will only cost 8,901. THAT is a *HUGE* difference. Hell, you could do the trip TWICE, with points left over under the NEW AGR plan..... Now, that's because the price for the Cap Ltd, at THAT time of year is so low. It's conceivable that during PEAK travel periods, it could cost MORE than 20,000. YMMV. (Pretty much the same ration for a Bedroom 17K for NEW, vs. 40K for OLD)

Granted, WAS to CHI, using points for a sleeper, not the most beneficial two-zone redemption, but, it shows the program changes swing both ways.

Using current AGR, DAL to WAS in February is 20000 points in sleeper for two. Under new estimator it is 37000. Nearly double.

How are you computing your fare and what number are you using. Just curious. In Feb I can find a TE/Cap combo for about 27000 points for 2 in roomette. Of course you can go much much higher depending on the bucket and routing.

In general anything that requires two legs on a Sleeper for 2 zones seems to come out worse than current. If there is one leg on sleeper covering 2 zones, it tends to come out better. That is why Florida to anywhere in the midwest tends to be worse than current while New York or Washington to Chicago tends to be better. DAL to CHI is probably better.

 

[rtabern]

So, let me get this right... (an example of how horrible the new AGR redemption process will be)

Let's use November 24, 2015 as an example...

If I wanted a roomette from Chicago to Portland, OR (via LAX using #3 and #14) -- it would cost me 20,000 points under the old system.

If I wanted a roomette from Chicago to Portland, OR (via LAX using #3 and #14) -- it would cost $1397.00 -- which according to the calculator on the new AGR page -- would be 48,197 points under the new system.

So, 20,000 points OLD system and 48,197 points NEW system? WTF?????? That is more than a 100% de-valuation!!!

I can't believe there isn't more of an out-cry over this. Again, I know I am burning through my points and might not even use AGR anymore after 2/28/17 when my S+ status will expire.

My real beef, as stated earlier, was the 100 point minimum going away. There is no way I am going to spend $5,000 a year on Amtrak travel that will be required now to maintain Select Plus. Honestly --- If I am going to spend that much on a train trip it will be something much nice than Amtrak (VIA or private rail charter). Access to Amtrak lounges and United lounges was worth the $1000 or so a year doing "point runs"... not $5,000. Congrats to Anthony for all his hard work... he is a good guy and one of my good friends... but of course, all of the changes he made benefit Amtrak and not really me. So while Amtrak has to do what it has to do... and so do I. I don't see AGR being something I will wish to be involved with past 2/28/17. I wonder how many people will drop off the Select Plus rosters now. Maybe that was the goal though afterall --- maybe too many people had S+ and lounge access --- and they were looking to trim that down a little??!? Still, I guess that $1,000 I would spend on point runs and the 100-200 stats to the Hiawatha I would do -- can go somewhere else... probably United Club.

 

[jis]

Yep. It *is* ticket price based as has been *loudly* advertised. And the natural consequence is that if you take a roundabout route, you get to pay accordingly.

If you go straight on the EB in a roomette it is less than 15,000 points. Via LAX on the same date is ~29,000 points (just a random date like Feb 15th 2016)

Somehow raising a hue and cry about being unable to go to PDX from CHI via LAX for an acceptable point cost seems like something that may not be very convincing to anyone other than the died in the wool AGR gamer. I am sure it could be even more spectacularly expensive to go via DAL and LAX to PDX.

 

[SteveSFL]

Anyone thought about Auto Train redemptions? Low bucket seems to be about $595 for two people and a vehicle, which would be just over 20k points, a savings of almost 10k. Most of the savings is in the vehicle add-on which would be 8245 points instead of the current 15k.

Of course vehicle add-on might be one of those "not all fares will qualify for points redemptions".

 

[tonys96]

So, let's say I get the United Airlines CC with the $495 annual fee... that lets you have access to their lounges. Does this also get me into all Amtrak lounges? Would I be allowed to bring a guest into the lounges (both UA and Amtrak)?

United Club members only get into Club Acelas. Not into any other lounges run by Amtrak.

For what it's worth.

On Nov 3rd of this year, under the EXISTING AGR, a roomette from DC to Chicago would cost you 20,000 points. Under the NEW AGR, that exact same roomette will only cost 8,901. THAT is a *HUGE* difference. Hell, you could do the trip TWICE, with points left over under the NEW AGR plan..... Now, that's because the price for the Cap Ltd, at THAT time of year is so low. It's conceivable that during PEAK travel periods, it could cost MORE than 20,000. YMMV. (Pretty much the same ration for a Bedroom 17K for NEW, vs. 40K for OLD)

Granted, WAS to CHI, using points for a sleeper, not the most beneficial two-zone redemption, but, it shows the program changes swing both ways.

Using current AGR, DAL to WAS in February is 20000 points in sleeper for two. Under new estimator it is 37000. Nearly double.

How are you computing your fare and what number are you using. Just curious. In Feb I can find a TE/Cap combo for about 27000 points for 2 in roomette. Of course you can go much much higher depending on the bucket and routing.
In general anything that requires two legs on a Sleeper for 2 zones seems to come out worse than current. If there is one leg on sleeper covering 2 zones, it tends to come out better. That is why Florida to anywhere in the midwest tends to be worse than current while New York or Washington to Chicago tends to be better. DAL to CHI is probably better.

Looked up fare for two on a day in feb on TE/ Card and put that fare in the estimator. There was a fare using a bus, too, but that would not be what I would use points for.

 

[rtabern]

Well, 48,197 points is a lot more than just "greater than 29,000"... LOL

If you go straight on the EB in a roomette it is less than 15,000 points. Via LAX on the same date is ~29,000 points (just a random date like Feb 15th 2016)

 

[Bob Dylan]

SteveSTX raises a good point about the AUTO Train which is a Cash Cow for Amtrak!

There are LOTS of details unexplained and the new system is bound to be Full of bugs, contradictions etc.

Not to mention training the AGR Agents who have a hard time now understanding a, IMO, simpiler system

And still to come is the new AGR Card rollout, its already generating lots of talk all over the net! I predict another similar typhon to hit AGR and BOA and (Chase)when this occurs next month!

 

[Ryan]

The Tuesday of Thanksgiving week? I'm wildly unsurprised that the tickets are going to be priced out of this world.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Can we say that jis and Rob are both right? I feel strongly both ways!

 

[PRR 60]

The Tuesday of Thanksgiving week? I'm wildly unsurprised that the tickets are going to be priced out of this world.

Not to mention that 11/24/15 is an AGR blackout date, so a 20,000 point, two-zone roomette redemption CHI-PDX is not permitted under the present program.