Amtrak Guest Rewards 2.0 Coming January 2016

[NorthShore]

Has anyone else gotten the "Warning, Will Robinson" error message with the points calculator?

The elimination of the 100 point minimum is definitely a disincentive to taking Amtrak over alternative bus or any available commuter rail options. I'll be going Greyhound (and saving money over Amtrak fares) on future trips to Milwaukee (and, likely, other Midwest/Chicago daytrip travel related sites.)

 

[City of Miami]

......and definitely using SWA......

For us 'bottom feeders', as Jis so delicately put it :hi: , Southwest Airlines has not offered many bargains for a long time. I can amost always find other options of cheaper and often shorter flights.

I had myself under the gun to make reservations by this weekend to avoid a possibly immediate devaluation. It's a relief to have a few more months to decide, especially since I want a trip next Aug which is not available yet.

For LD trips I have in mind it will be a davaluation of between ~17% and ~60%, depending on the price of the ticket when I pull the trigger. However going to Chicago from Charlottesville will now be about the cost of 1 zone insteand of 2 zone, again depending on when I purchase.

'Modification' of a reservation and the consequent 10% penalty in refund could include re-pricing due to Amtrak price reduction for the same ticket and could not AFAICT.

 

[willem]

My April trip to Portland and back from CHI (bedroom) is now 28K points more.

But to be fair, you would need to have made the calculation using the price in effect at the time you made the reservation.

If you have yet to make your reservation, do it before the new program and enjoy your 28,000 points!

 

[City of Miami]

Has anyone else gotten the "Warning, Will Robinson" error message with the points calculator?

Yes. I then changed from IE to Firefox and it was OK again.

 

[willem]

Has anyone else gotten the "Warning, Will Robinson" error message with the points calculator?

Yes. Once I got the error message, I got it for every calculation until I closed the tab and opened a new tab.

 

[Kat314159]

So much for me ever achieving status. I might make the run for S+ this year just so that when I don't make it in 2016 I show up on thier books as a lost member with status. With the removal of 100 points I wish they'd make it something like x tqp or x segments this year.

 

[HenryK]

For the hell of it, I priced a single fare adult roomette ticket on No. 5 from Chicago to Emeryville departing Feb. 3, 2016. That comes to $467, which I think is lowest bucket. The points calculator says that ride at that price would take 16,112 points . . . quite a bit fewer than the 20,000 required in the two-zone system.

 

[Manny T]

Folks, if earning points stays the same (with the elimination of the 100 point minimum), and redemption depends on ticket price, we travelers have some control over ticket price by choosing when to travel and how far in advance to make the reservation. In comparison with the current AGR program, net net under the new regime sometimes you will win, sometimes you will lose.

One example: Roomette CHI-East Coast -- current 2 zone redemption requires 20,000 points.

New AGR program:

If the ticket price is $400, you will need 13,800 points (less than before).

If the ticket price is $750, you will need 25,875 points (more than before).

So if there are some downsides to the new program rules, I would guess they could generally be overcome by shopping for low ticket prices.

 

[Paulus]

But jis, that only covers Business class and Acela.

Yep, and How fair is that? The most expensive tickets, Sleeping Cars, dont earn a Bonus!
Only the "desired" Corridor passengers that ride on Acela and in Business Class and have their tickets paid for by someone else!

Sounds like whoever planned this thinks civilization ends @ the Potomac!

Per passenger mile sleepers are cheaper than many corridors and much much cheaper than Acela. Average fares per passenger on the Acela are higher than average sleeper fares on several routes for that matter.

 

[Manny T]

Here's another comparison that involves the 100 point minimum:

Chicago-Milwaukee fare is $24. Current program you earn 100 points. "Special route" Hiawatha reward costs 1,500 points.

New AGR program: you will earn 48 points. Reward will cost 828 points (according to calculator).

To earn a free CHI-MKE ticket, under the current program you'd need 15 rides (15 x 100 = 1,500), at a cost of $360.

Under the new program, you'd need about 18 rides at a cost of $432.

 

[jis]

But jis, that only covers Business class and Acela.

Yep, and How fair is that? The most expensive tickets, Sleeping Cars, dont earn a Bonus!

Only the "desired" Corridor passengers that ride on Acela and in Business Class and have their tickets paid for by someone else!

Sounds like whoever planned this thinks civilization ends @ the Potomac!

I agree that Sleeping Class not getting a bonus is a bit odd. I'd expect it to get some bonus, perhaps at BC level.

OTOH, the comment about Potomac is just a bit of a rant, sorry to say. What is obvious is that corridor travel is being favored. There is plenty of BC service in corridors way beyond the Potomac, and as time progresses there are all sorts of opportunities to add First Class service elsewhere. OTOH If you want to argue fairness, how is it fare that the NEC Coach passenger pays through their nose on a per mile basis and gets no bonus. So stop whining.about Potomac.

Then interesting anomaly will be on the Starlight where the BC folks will get a bonus while Sleeper won't, should the BC experiment become permanent.

For the hell of it, I priced a single fare adult roomette ticket on No. 5 from Chicago to Emeryville departing Feb. 3, 2016. That comes to $467, which I think is lowest bucket. The points calculator says that ride at that price would take 16,112 points . . . quite a bit fewer than the 20,000 required in the two-zone system.

I have found that in many scenarios/itineraries the lowest bucket fares come out to be better than zone based points requirements, and of course you make it like a bandit if traveling from NYP or WAS to Chicago since that eats up two zones. OTOH, you get slightly screwed on Florida to Chicago (by 5000 to 15000 in roomette depending on which bucket you get). This is where the points and dollars thing might come in to help a bit. In general more often than not we in Florida are screwed if we wish to go anywhere into zone 2 and beyond.

 

[jebr]

In that particular corridor (CHI - MKE,) if speed isn't a major issue, Greyhound will offer a free trip after 16 trips (and a ticket on Greyhound is $7-$17 for later today, depending on which schedule and how restrictive of a fare you're wanting to book.)

Granted, I don't think there will be much "conversion" to Greyhound due to this, but there may be some (like NorthShore.)

 

[Manny T]

It seems to me that instead of rushing to use up or whittle down the points in your AGR account before Jan. 26, 2016, the right course would be to comparison shop--determine how many points your trip will cost NOW vs. one taken AFTER the new program kicks in. It may be that the later trip (reserved further in advance) will eat up fewer points (because the ticket price will be less). Hence points in my account NOW will actually be worth more applied against a future trip under the new rules.

 

[fairviewroad]

Then interesting anomaly will be on the Starlight where the BC folks will get a bonus while Sleeper won't.

Only if the BC pilot program is extended. It's currently set to expire September 30, unless I missed something.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Here is a map of my previous trips reachable by Amtrak...



Even though I live in the middle of the country the vast majority of my personal travel involves destinations that are near or along the coasts. Knowing I could reach virtually any location Amtrak served at a cost of exactly 20,000 points made such trips extremely practical and helped overshadow many of Amtrak's other failings and shortcomings. With the Chase Ultimate Rewards exchange process and AGR's generous top-up bonuses I was able to ride as much or as little as I desired without much effort and at a fairly reasonable cost.

Recently the points earning process has taken a hit with higher costs and lower overall value. In addition the connection to Chase appears to be ending.Adding to those devaluations these same trips I used to redeem for exactly 20,000 points are going to cost me 50,000 points or more each way based on previous pricing. Maybe Amtrak thinks with the new rate hike I'll happily earn the same number of points while traveling half as much or less, but what Amtrak doesn't seem to realize (or perhaps simply doesn't care) is that when costs rise this much in a single devaluation the whole equation becomes extremely dissuasive.

Where are my new sweet spots? Beats the heck out of me. So far as I can tell passengers in my situation are basically SOL once the new program comes into effect.

 

[jebr]

I guess it depends on what you consider a "sweet spot." There's no real "sweet spot" if all of your redemptions were used on longer trips (and cash paid for cheaper trips) but the cheaper trips are now also cheaper with AGR - for example, SAS - LAX is only 11,247 each way on low bucket vs. 20,000. SAS - CHI is also a bit cheaper on low bucket: 12,179 vs. 15,000.

 

[Kat314159]

With the Chase Ultimate Rewards exchange process and AGR's generous top-up bonuses I was able to ride as much or as little as I desired without much effort and at a fairly reasonable cost.

Have we heard anything official that they will discontinue ultimate rewards transfers alongside the AGR MC. I had just opened a Sapphire Preferred last month

 

[calwatch]

Gary Leff, one of the prominent airline bloggers, explains it here at http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/08/27/amtraks-new-revenue-based-program-details-revealed-heres-what-it-will-mean/comment-page-1/#comment-4210752

You're looking at an effective 5.8% rebate on Amtrak travel, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty poor (although that doubles if you use the AGR credit card to a respectable 11.6%). Southwest is at a 8.6%-12% redemption rate (dependent on fare bucket), Virgin America is at about 12%, and Delta and United are at about the 8% range (converting the 5 points per dollar earned at the basic level to 25,000 point round trip saver level redemptions which cost around $400 round trip). On the other hand, Amtrak offers double points days and similar promotions which airlines almost never have.

 

[Manny T]

^ Good read. This is what Gary Leff says, and I think he's right: "You’re going to be getting a fairly consistent redemption rate per point, which will make some awards (where ticket cost is low) cheaper and other awards (where ticket cost is high) more expensive."

 

[Anderson]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtrak-guest-rewards/1705720-introducing-next-stop-amtrak-guest-rewards-2.html#post25336479

The best thing I can say about my opinion would be to say nothing. That isn't happening. I can say that I wasn't terribly shocked by any of the changes, but it would have taken a lot to be shocked. My comments are in the link here since I don't want to say everything twice.

 

[Anderson]

Gary Leff, one of the prominent airline bloggers, explains it here at http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/08/27/amtraks-new-revenue-based-program-details-revealed-heres-what-it-will-mean/comment-page-1/#comment-4210752

You're looking at an effective 5.8% rebate on Amtrak travel, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty poor (although that doubles if you use the AGR credit card to a respectable 11.6%). Southwest is at a 8.6%-12% redemption rate (dependent on fare bucket), Virgin America is at about 12%, and Delta and United are at about the 8% range (converting the 5 points per dollar earned at the basic level to 25,000 point round trip saver level redemptions which cost around $400 round trip). On the other hand, Amtrak offers double points days and similar promotions which airlines almost never have.

My main points of reference are AGR and Virgin. AGR used to have the edge; Virgin now has it by a wide margin:

AGR gives you 2.9 cents per point, which translates into the following;

5.8 cents/dollar base

11.6 cents/dollar with the credit card or Select Executive

17.4 cents/dollar with the credit card and Select Executive

Virgin gives you 2.2 cents per point (ish, it is complicated). However, because of how the earnings work "over there" you get:

11 cents/dollar base

17.6 cents/dollar with the credit card

20.35 cents/dollar with the credit card and Silver status

28.6 cents/dollar with the credit card and Gold status

So AGR has just become a substantially worse program. I'm very undecided as to what I'll bother with for status next year.

 

[Manny T]

Can someone explain how the new AGR is a "devaluation" if some reward trips are going to cost fewer points? I can now go CHI-NYP in a roomette for 13,800 points (sometimes) instead of 20,000 points (always), plus my earnings remain the same. Should I be unhappy about this change? I just have to pick the right date to travel on a redemption.

 

[BCL]

Gary Leff, one of the prominent airline bloggers, explains it here at http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2015/08/27/amtraks-new-revenue-based-program-details-revealed-heres-what-it-will-mean/comment-page-1/#comment-4210752

You're looking at an effective 5.8% rebate on Amtrak travel, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty poor (although that doubles if you use the AGR credit card to a respectable 11.6%). Southwest is at a 8.6%-12% redemption rate (dependent on fare bucket), Virgin America is at about 12%, and Delta and United are at about the 8% range (converting the 5 points per dollar earned at the basic level to 25,000 point round trip saver level redemptions which cost around $400 round trip). On the other hand, Amtrak offers double points days and similar promotions which airlines almost never have.

Being able to bring together Double Days, the 50% S+ bonus, the 100 point minimum, and multi-city made for some crazy points earning. I remember I'd make a EMY-OKJ-GAC trip with the 25% Levi's Stadium promotion (which wasn't limited to game days) and I'd get 200 TQPs and 500 total points for a spend total of $13.50. With the new system it's 26 TQPs and 65 total points.

Honestly - I can't see myself spending $2500 just to get to Select. I'm not sure how much I spent last year to reach Select Plus, but it was probably less than $1500, and it was exclusively commuting to work. Right now I'm thinking I'll just opt for the soft landing to Select and call it a day. Or maybe go on a binge anyways to collect points while the 100 point minimum is still available.

The loss of the special route redemptions seems to be a wash though. It's going to be marginally more for some of the longer trips, but now maybe I can justify using points for a short trip. Also - I have a kid and now I can use points with the 50% discount. Before I was thinking of just using the full redemption.

 

[BCL]

Can someone explain how the new AGR is a "devaluation" if some reward trips are going to cost fewer points? I can now go CHI-NYP in a roomette for 13,800 points (sometimes) instead of 20,000 points (always), plus my earnings remain the same. Should I be unhappy about this change? I just have to pick the right date to travel on a redemption.

It's a devaluation for those who booked trips to maximize the use of the zone maps. I haven't booked a sleeper redemption, but I thought that one benefit was that there was no transportation charge for additional passengers.

I'm probably not going to benefit from this too much since the 100 point minimum is what allowed me to earn points. However, now I probably have an incentive to buy multi-ride tickets rather than try to book individual tickets to earn segments. I may not have wasted a whole lot of money on those trips, but they certainly took up a lot of my time.

 

[Anderson]

Can someone explain how the new AGR is a "devaluation" if some reward trips are going to cost fewer points? I can now go CHI-NYP in a roomette for 13,800 points (sometimes) instead of 20,000 points (always), plus my earnings remain the same. Should I be unhappy about this change? I just have to pick the right date to travel on a redemption.

It's a devaluation for those who booked trips to maximize the use of the zone maps. I haven't booked a sleeper redemption, but I thought that one benefit was that there was no transportation charge for additional passengers.

I'm probably not going to benefit from this too much since the 100 point minimum is what allowed me to earn points. However, now I probably have an incentive to buy multi-ride tickets rather than try to book individual tickets to earn segments. I may not have wasted a whole lot of money on those trips, but they certainly took up a lot of my time.

Honestly, I don't think booking WAS/RVR-DLD/ORL counts as "maximizing the map".