Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[jis]

First the Beach Line Toll Authority will have to be beaten into submission to change the silly agreement they forced on AAF disallowing any stations between West Palm Beach and Orlando without consulting them. Some from Brevard County are already working on it.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Miami Today article with some more downtown Miami station details:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2014/08/19/aboard-florida-unveils-station-details/

 

[cirdan]

Miami Today article with some more downtown Miami station details:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2014/08/19/aboard-florida-unveils-station-details/

All Aboard Florida is seeking administrative approval only for the station part of its downtown terminal. The project is to also include four buildings, including a 70-story mixed use tower. Review of the buildings is to come later. Overall, the entire project will cover about 9 acres and run from Northwest Eighth Street south to First Street. The station, however, stops at about Northwest Third Street.

Checking that out on Google Maps, it seems that of the seven blocks that the original station covered, only five will be available for trains, with the bottom two being used for other purposes.

I hope AAF isn't shooting itself in the foot with regard to preventing future expansion should they wish to run longer trains.

 

[Paulus]

It's good to see that they'll be going with only the minimum required parking (337 spaces) and a good hefty bit of TOD.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

First the Beach Line Toll Authority will have to be beaten into submission to change the silly agreement they forced on AAF disallowing any stations between West Palm Beach and Orlando without consulting them. Some from Brevard County are already working on it.

Being an entrenched bureaucracy it will take a good beating to get them to do the right thing. I'm sure there are those in Indian River and St. Lucie (as well as possibly Martin?) Counties who would like to see the beast tamed as well. One of the sad aspects of this is that having stations in St. Pierce, Vero Beach, Cocoa and Melbourne would likely help to counter some of the NIMBY noise.

jis - Do you know if there is any sort of multi-county group working on this together? Obviously the more resources to fight The Beach, the better.

Hmmm. If there is not, what is needed is someone who is recently retired, and who is knowledgeable and passionate about rail passenger service to coordinate this effort.... Hmmm, I wonder who would fit those criteria? :unsure:

Hmmm.... I wonder...

 

[CHamilton]

While rail projects often seem to speed down a clear partisan line — left in favor, right against — this is not the case in Florida.

High-Speed Rail Muddies Florida Governor’s Race

 

[jis]

Don't look at me. I am not retired. Far from it. Actually it looks like I will be spending even more time at work. An exciting new opportunity/project just cranking up.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[jis]

While rail projects often seem to speed down a clear partisan line — left in favor, right against — this is not the case in Florida.

High-Speed Rail Muddies Florida Governor’s Race

Incidentally, left in favor right opposed, is not necessarily true in NJ either. For example, the River Line and MOM have both been opposed vigorously by the Democratic establishment. The River Line was pushed through almost entirely by the Republicans during a Republican regime. Then when Corzine came to power, his DOT spent a lot of time criticizing the project.
The Middlesex County Democrats with some side action help from one who is proclaimed to be a rail advocate, have so far successfully scuppered MOM.

It all depends on whose back yard is being gored.

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[Green Maned Lion]

Now now Jishnu, don't speak ill of the dead.

 

[chrsjrcj]

I think Scott sees this as an alternative to the high speed rail funds he rejected, while Crist is still bitter about what Scott did. Patrick Murphy (D) represents the Stuart/Jupiter area that has been most vocal against this project, which explains why he seems to be opposed. Murphy was actually a shock win against the heavyweight Republican Alan West in a Republican leaning district. With election season in full swing, I think that might be a factor as to why Murphy is opposed (though he might be in for a bit of a cakewalk this year with plenty of cash and very weak Republican opponents).

I imagine a lot of the opposition from politicians will die down after November 4th.

 

[jis]

Now now Jishnu, don't speak ill of the dead.

Ill? Who's speaking ill? Just the truth.
Another project that has gotten stuck in limbo partly because of the same champion is the Lackawanna Cutoff beyond Andover. This time some ramshackle freight house is involved apparently instead of a whole friggin' battlefield.

 

[Anderson]

*fumes*

Did Charlie Crist get kicked in the head? There's no money available for Orlampa right now. Moreover, if he's so hot to trot about that connection, I don't see why it wouldn't make more sense to find some way to do a deal to extend the existing plan to Tampa and work out some sort of revenue split like innumerable railroads did for decades.

And...good grief, for the price of the original Tampa-Orlando-Miami project he could throw in full electrification of the FEC gratis, convert the project to Acela IIs (so you could have 160 MPH operation Tampa-Cocoa and cover passenger service to Jacksonville) and have a few billion left over.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Work begins — finally — on Miami-to-Orlando fast train

Preliminary work has begun for construction of a $2.5 billion express passenger train between Miami and Orlando.

In preparation for the project, 35,000 linear feet of new steel rails have been laid on the ground alongside existing freight train tracks at two sites in Palm Beach County just west of North Dixie Highway in Boca Raton.

Parking lots that for years were packed with vehicles next to the Miami-Dade County Hall building and Metrorail tracks in downtown Miami are now empty, closed for coming construction of the train’s Miami station.

Well, hopefully it's actually rails for the project, and not the FEC replacing rails. Though, AAF did post the article on their Facebook page.

 

[cirdan]

Will AAF actually have dedicated tracks? My understanding was they are just upgrading existing tracks for higher speeds.

In the latter case you can't really say the rails are for AAF and not FEC.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Apparently, in order to get construction started before the end of the year the FEC loaned how some of their MOW crews to AAF. I saw some work being done on the SE of the Hypuluxo siding (near Boynton Beach), yesterday afternoon.

 

[chrsjrcj]

The FEC is already Class IV track (60 mph freight, 80 mph passenger).

 

[jis]

Basically for adding AAF service what is now single track in that area will be double tracked, and eventually for Tri-Rail service along FEC between Miami and West Palm, at least in some segments a third track will be added.

 

[afigg]

The Miami Herald article, BTW, also had this about the pending AAF equipment order:

In a recent interview at his Coral Gables office, Reininger said the company has selected the type of train it will run on the Miami-Orlando track, but wouldn’t reveal specifics.

“We can hint at it by saying that with certainty it is going to be a state-of-the-art train that will be the most technologically advanced train of its type,” Reininger said. “It will be made in the USA and it will have the newest and highest emission standards built into the technology of the train as well.”

Setting aside the hype of "most technologically advanced train of its type", any guesses on the source of the coach cars? If it is not DMU, the locomotive options would be EMD F125 or the Siemens Charger I expect.

 

[jis]

My guess is it will not be DMU. My money is on Siemens Chargers (two per consist, one at each end facing the right way ) and possibly Valero derived trailer cars.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

How good is your money this time, JIS?

 

[cirdan]

My guess is it will not be DMU. My money is on Siemens Chargers (two per consist, one at each end facing the right way ) and possibly Valero derived trailer cars.

I guess you mean Velaro?

That is at least what the website has been showing, though of course that could just be a stock photograph used by a web designer without any input from real decison takers.

This opinion is strengthened by the photograph in question being of one of the older generation, not the type presently being manufactured.

 

[jis]

Yes of course. Velaro. I seem to always type it the other way round. Don;t know why.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Semi related topic which I didnt want to start new thread for,

Is there going to be a new downtown train station for this? Can Amtrak move in to that station?

 

[jphjaxfl]

There are going to be downtown stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. Orlando's station will be in a new terminal with parking garage and other amenities at the Airport. Under AAF's agreement, they will not be able to connect with Amtrak. No through tickets can be sold.

 

[cirdan]

There are going to be downtown stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. Orlando's station will be in a new terminal with parking garage and other amenities at the Airport. Under AAF's agreement, they will not be able to connect with Amtrak. No through tickets can be sold.

Although Tri-rail will serve Miami's AAF station (although AFAIK it's not clear whether this means they will be serving both stations, or will transfer all Miami service to the FEC line). There is also a distinct possibility that Sunrail could connect to Orlando airport. So interchange between AAF and Amtrak will be possible by intermediary of these systems.