Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[jis]

Tri Rail will continue to serve its current route even after they start serving the FEC route.

The point about connecting service is that no through ticketing will be allowed. Of course anyone can connect to whatever they want, however they manage to pull it off.

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[jphjaxfl]

When will Tri-Rail start service on the Florida East Coast line? I haven't noticed any infrastructure changes except for AAF.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

There are going to be downtown stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. Orlando's station will be in a new terminal with parking garage and other amenities at the Airport. Under AAF's agreement, they will not be able to connect with Amtrak. No through tickets can be sold.

Delta and AA dont sell tickets on each others flights but they still share airports, thats what I mean.

 

[jis]

There are going to be downtown stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. Orlando's station will be in a new terminal with parking garage and other amenities at the Airport. Under AAF's agreement, they will not be able to connect with Amtrak. No through tickets can be sold.

Delta and AA dont sell tickets on each others flights but they still share airports, thats what I mean.

But it is possible to get through ticketing on the same itinerary involving those two airlines. This is not going to be allowed involving AAF and Amtrak as a result of the agreement that AAF has with the STB.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

You are thinking too much I am just asking if Amtrak can share the train facility, not service.

Any public transit connection there anyway? Bus or even better rapid transit?

 

[MattW]

The Miami AAF station will be adjacent, if not directly connected to, Miami's Metrorail and Metromover system. I believe bus bays are also planned. The Orlando station will have whatever service already serves the airport.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

Then surely Amtrak would be better off here than next to the airport.

Or they could split and have Meteor terminate at airport and Star terminate in downtown

 

[jis]

Then surely Amtrak would be better off here than next to the airport.

Or they could split and have Meteor terminate at airport and Star terminate in downtown

Amtrak is not going to be using the Miami AAF station. There are absolutely no plans to do so, partly because Amtrak's maintenance facility is at Hialeah which is not exactly easy to get to from the new AAF station. Whether we like it or not Amtrak will be at the Airport station for the foreseeable future, that is if it does manage to get there from its current home.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Siemens it is.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/239439114/All-Aboard-Florida-Selects-Siemens-as-Train-Manufacturer

 

[Brian_tampa]

Siemens has been selected as the train set manufacturer. Press release from Siemens website and Palm Beach post.

 

[afigg]

Link to the Siemens press release.

Further link to Siemens press video and photos from the Sacramento plant which show ACS-64 frames being built (but no Amtrak markings)

Excerpt:

The initial five trainset purchase to serve the Miami to West Palm Beach segment will consist of two diesel-electric locomotives, one on each end of four passenger coaches. These diesel-electric locomotives will meet the highest emissions standards set by the federal government. All Aboard Florida and Siemens plan to expand the initial trainsets to seven coaches, and purchase an additional five trainsets, concurrent with environmental approvals and additional financing for the segment from West Palm Beach to the Orlando International Airport.

The stainless steel passenger coaches, the first to be manufactured by Siemens in the United States, will be state-of-the-art, ADA compliant and designed for comfort, featuring special ergonomic seating and Wi-Fi. The trainsets will also be level boarding, which allows for the ease of boarding without steps and provides easier access for bikes, walkers, strollers and wheelchairs. The locomotives will meet the latest federal rail safety regulations, including enhanced carbody structure safety with crash energy management components.

For environmental green points, try this for the Siemens Sacramento plant along with where the equipment will be serviced

Siemens Sacramento plant, which has been in operation for almost 30 years, is up to 80 percent powered by two megawatts of solar energy and currently employs more than 800 people. The trains will be maintained and serviced in West Palm Beach and the Orlando International Airport ensuring full-time employment for more than 120 people.

 

[jis]

What did I tell you? Well actually I cheated a bit.... it was more than just an unfounded guess, but I was not at liberty to disclose that back then ...... but whatever.

 

[afigg]

Then surely Amtrak would be better off here than next to the airport.

Or they could split and have Meteor terminate at airport and Star terminate in downtown

Amtrak will be stopping at the Miami Central Station (MCS) which is part of the Miami Intermodal Center megaproject. MCS will be shared with TriRail, have direct access to Miami Metrorail, the airport car rental facility and lots of parking. So it is not as if Amtrak will be stuck at an isolated airport station.

If AAF is able to follow through on their plans, Miami will have 2 major train stations, which will be directly connected by Metrorail. Will be interesting to see how much the addition of 2 train stations with connections to the Metrorail system serve as a catalyst for restarting or resurrecting the expansion plans for the Miami heavy rail metro system. From what I have seen in the news, the current focus is on building a light rail line from downtown Miami to Miami Beach. But that could be followed by extending the heavy rail system which is also back in the public conversation.

 

[frequentflyer]

So the coaches will be new, something not seen in the states before. Single level too, or did they say?

For some reason, the link to Siemens web page will not post here, but go to their mobility site and one can see Siemens sell non DMU passenger cars

 

[afigg]

So the coaches will be new, something not seen in the states before. Single level too, or did they say?

For some reason, the link to Siemens web page will not post here, but go to their mobility site and one can see Siemens sell non DMU passenger cars

Yes, the cars will be single level. On the Siemens AAF announcement page, there are links to:

Intercity Passenger Coach Data Sheet (1 page PDF)

Charger Diesel-Electric Locomotive Data Sheet (2 page PDF)

The coach car will seat 66, first class car 50 seats. The car floor height is 51", car length 85', width 10'6", height 14'. So the passenger cars will match high level platforms in use on the NEC and are presumably compliant with the NEC clearance envelope. Also fully compliant with FRA requirements and Buy America rules. The basic specs match the Next Gen Single Level coach car dimensions, which I think we can all agree is not an accident. Siemens is after bigger game than just the AAF order.

 

[Brian_tampa]

I remember seeing a Siemens job announcement back in January for a "Commercial Project Manager" at their Sacramento facility to work on a "All Aboard Florida" project. That's when I knew that Siemens had been selected. Heck, AAF has been saying for almost the past year they have been working with a manufacturer on the design of the train cars. I think Siemens has had this order for quite a while now. I would not be surprised if the Charger locomotive announcement last December was associated with the AAF order. Its very possible that AAF will be the initial customer for this new class of locomotive, and not the government consortium that will get 32 of the same units.

 

[jis]

So the coaches will be new, something not seen in the states before. Single level too, or did they say?

Yes. Single level and also high platform I believe.

For some reason, the link to Siemens web page will not post here, but go to their mobility site and one can see Siemens sell non DMU passenger cars

Of course.
And yes, Siemens and AAF have been working on this for almost a year now, though the actual order was placed recently, as I understand it.

 

[frequentflyer]

Which means Siemens has its eyes on the mythical NEC Amfleet replacement order. AAF hopes Amtrak picks Siemens rail cars too, lower the cost of parts.

Siemens have in short order become the defacto go to OEM for rail passenger equipment and locomotive power. GE is probably wandering how that happened.

 

[cirdan]

Yes. Single level and also high platform I believe.

I wonder if high platform will turn out to be a good idea if they want to share tracks with Tri Rail.

 

[afigg]

I remember seeing a Siemens job announcement back in January for a "Commercial Project Manager" at their Sacramento facility to work on a "All Aboard Florida" project. That's when I knew that Siemens had been selected. Heck, AAF has been saying for almost the past year they have been working with a manufacturer on the design of the train cars. I think Siemens has had this order for quite a while now. I would not be surprised if the Charger locomotive announcement last December was associated with the AAF order. Its very possible that AAF will be the initial customer for this new class of locomotive, and not the government consortium that will get 32 of the same units.

The 32 to 35 Charger locomotives for the contract with the FRA and the states are scheduled to be delivered by the summer of 2017. That contract also has options for 235 additional locomotives, so it is a far bigger contract than AAF which will be purchasing a total of 20 locomotives for 10 trainsets plus how many spares AAF needs. Given the number of grade crossings on the AAF FEC route, they will need spare locomotives so they can swap them out for major repair or hold for insurance review after a serious grade crossing collision.

Given the tight schedule for the Midwest, CA, and WA order, I expect the first Chargers will enter testing and service for the government order.

 

[Brian_tampa]

I remember seeing a Siemens job announcement back in January for a "Commercial Project Manager" at their Sacramento facility to work on a "All Aboard Florida" project. That's when I knew that Siemens had been selected. Heck, AAF has been saying for almost the past year they have been working with a manufacturer on the design of the train cars. I think Siemens has had this order for quite a while now. I would not be surprised if the Charger locomotive announcement last December was associated with the AAF order. Its very possible that AAF will be the initial customer for this new class of locomotive, and not the government consortium that will get 32 of the same units.

The 32 to 35 Charger locomotives for the contract with the FRA and the states are scheduled to be delivered by the summer of 2017. That contract also has options for 235 additional locomotives, so it is a far bigger contract than AAF which will be purchasing a total of 20 locomotives for 10 trainsets plus how many spares AAF needs. Given the number of grade crossings on the AAF FEC route, they will need spare locomotives so they can swap them out for major repair or hold for insurance review after a serious grade crossing collision.
Given the tight schedule for the Midwest, CA, and WA order, I expect the first Chargers will enter testing and service for the government order.

I enjoy your sarcasm about accidents, but I would say that AAF has stated that they plan on a late 2016 start date. This would imply that their order would be completed first. I don't disagree that the government order is larger (32 vs 20), but I would be willing to surmise that AAF has offered compensation or other deals to make their order go first. I would not be surprised if AAF will go with a build, maintain, operate contract with Siemens. Without the details, everything is speculation at this point

 

[cirdan]

I remember seeing a Siemens job announcement back in January for a "Commercial Project Manager" at their Sacramento facility to work on a "All Aboard Florida" project. That's when I knew that Siemens had been selected. Heck, AAF has been saying for almost the past year they have been working with a manufacturer on the design of the train cars. I think Siemens has had this order for quite a while now. I would not be surprised if the Charger locomotive announcement last December was associated with the AAF order. Its very possible that AAF will be the initial customer for this new class of locomotive, and not the government consortium that will get 32 of the same units.

The 32 to 35 Charger locomotives for the contract with the FRA and the states are scheduled to be delivered by the summer of 2017. That contract also has options for 235 additional locomotives, so it is a far bigger contract than AAF which will be purchasing a total of 20 locomotives for 10 trainsets plus how many spares AAF needs. Given the number of grade crossings on the AAF FEC route, they will need spare locomotives so they can swap them out for major repair or hold for insurance review after a serious grade crossing collision.
Given the tight schedule for the Midwest, CA, and WA order, I expect the first Chargers will enter testing and service for the government order.

I enjoy your sarcasm about accidents, but I would say that AAF has stated that they plan on a late 2016 start date. This would imply that their order would be completed first. I don't disagree that the government order is larger (32 vs 20), but I would be willing to surmise that AAF has offered compensation or other deals to make their order go first. I would not be surprised if AAF will go with a build, maintain, operate contract with Siemens. Without the details, everything is speculation at this point

There is no reason one order should receive absolute priority. An interleaving of deliveries would be a possibility, especially if the locomotives are to be identical in all respects other than paint livery.

AAF service may start in late 2016, but we don't know whether they wish to operate a full schedule from day one or may be able to make do with a reduced fleet initially.

Siemens is still purusing the Acela II project, so a flawless deliveryto Amtrak is very much in their interest. AAF is, I guess, very much small fry on the balance sheet.

 

[jis]

I wonder if high platform will turn out to be a good idea if they want to share tracks with Tri Rail.

FEC and Tri-Rail plan to share tracks, but not platforms. THE HSR station is going to be separate from the commuter station with separate platforms for each.
From what i understand the joint planning between AAF and Siemens pre-dates the FRA order for Chargers. So the schedules and resources and timelines for delivering at least part of the AAF order before the FRA order is already accounted for. For just running the Miami - West Palm service AAF does not need the full complement of ten consists. Basically they could start hourly service easily with 4 consists perhaps with one additional spare - so 8 to 10 locos is all that they would need by 2016. The rest is going to be needed most likely after 2017.

Besides it is not like Siemens is capable of producing only one locomotive at a time serially.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Four coach sets? I knew they weren't serious. I'm sad to see the confirmation though.

 

[Paulus]

Four coach sets? I knew they weren't serious. I'm sad to see the confirmation though.

Four cars on the initial runs to West Palm Beach, 7 when they're extended to Orlando with its completion. It's not a sign of lack of seriousness.