That beautiful stone Lacolle station is a harbinger of when the US and Canada had a friendly border, not the Turkey/Bulgaria experience it is today on a train. So is the St Jean Sur Richelieu depot on the CN.
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CN Rouses Point Track (Adirondack)
- Thread starter Oreius
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west point
Engineer
I checked the open railway map . I was zooming down to where CP overpasss CN near Rue Norman & Aurnue de la Verrene. How expensive would it be to install a 10 MPH connection downhill from CP to CN in the SE corner? That way Amtrak could serve Central station and all the connections. The speed up to Montreal would allow a possible connection to VIA's 1900 MTR - Halifax train. Did that once but connected somewhere east of MTR.
west bound from halifax not scheduled at MTR until 1000 would miss train to NYP.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/
west bound from halifax not scheduled at MTR until 1000 would miss train to NYP.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/
The looping around St Luc, handing off between CP and CN - it would be much quicker to send the train to Lucien L'Allier and hail a taxi for a few blocks to Gare Central.
or walk 13 minutes through underground walkways (useful in winter) via the Bell Centre.
If you remember during the final years of Empire Corridor operation into GCT, Amtrak contracted with Metro Apple Express (now defunct) to run a NYPS-GCT Shuttle multiple times a day. They used GMC Suburban Fishbowls. Common sense would set up a connecting van between the Adirondack at Lucien L'Allier and Central stations for those requiring its amenities, EXO, and VIA Rail services. Add $5 to the ticket to reserve.
There is also line that connects the ex-D&H just outside of the CP junction at Delson with Brossard on the CN. I have no idea what sort of shape it is in. Probably awful.
This has turned into quite a big discussion! A lot of interesting points.
Here’s what they (CN) should do. Allow the Adirondack to run on the Rouses Point track. First do a “bare minimum” rehabilitation to at least allow for a 25-30 mph operation. Then figure out the issue with the customs and Gare Centrale access later. Just restart the service. Heck, I wouldn’t mind going 15 mph on that track; I don’t mind extra time on the train and also the nostalgia feel would make for an even more fun trip!
Some of us ride the train for the fun, and we don’t care about times…
Here’s what they (CN) should do. Allow the Adirondack to run on the Rouses Point track. First do a “bare minimum” rehabilitation to at least allow for a 25-30 mph operation. Then figure out the issue with the customs and Gare Centrale access later. Just restart the service. Heck, I wouldn’t mind going 15 mph on that track; I don’t mind extra time on the train and also the nostalgia feel would make for an even more fun trip!
Some of us ride the train for the fun, and we don’t care about times…
I think Central Station is nicer than the new Moynihan NYP. Way nicer as well as far more functional.
CN isn't going to do crap unless somebody pays them to do it. They have a little used branch line that serves their purposes with minimal maintenance and they don't need anything more. They won't pay to upgrade a line to 25/30 mph standards themselves when 10 mph works fine for their purposes, and Amtrak cannot force their way onto it since it is in Canada.
Heck, it is probably more likely that CN embargoes it or even abandons it than voluntarily upgrading it on their own dime. From the discussion here, it sounds like they maybe move a couple cars a month on it south of Cantic to the Rouses Point interchange, if that.
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Hence the discussion on the CP and Lucien L'Allier. Hopefully Gardner explains the CN facts of life to Schumer / Gilligrand / Stefonik and the local C of C, that this is Canada, not the US, where Amtrak has few rights.
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fdaley
OBS Chief
Yeah, it sure looks like restoring service on the pre-pandemic route would require someone to pay whatever ransom CN sets. Given the Adirondack's history as a state-supported train, it seems logical that New York would have to come up with some of the cash, although likely aided through some source of federal funds, whether through Amtrak or not. So that's probably the scenario to get the state and federal lawmakers focused on.
But the Napierville routing is a pretty intriguing alternative and might be worth pursuing, especially if CN's demands become unreasonable. It's really a much better, faster route from the border into Montreal. It's the terminal there that's the problem. Another question is who'd service the train, and where, if Amtrak were to run into Lucien L'Allier. I assume EXO has some facility there for cleaning its trains, but none of those trains has food service. And the southbound surely would no longer have VIA's brown paper trash bags at every seat.
But the Napierville routing is a pretty intriguing alternative and might be worth pursuing, especially if CN's demands become unreasonable. It's really a much better, faster route from the border into Montreal. It's the terminal there that's the problem. Another question is who'd service the train, and where, if Amtrak were to run into Lucien L'Allier. I assume EXO has some facility there for cleaning its trains, but none of those trains has food service. And the southbound surely would no longer have VIA's brown paper trash bags at every seat.
Since most everything on the Adirondack is prepackaged, I wonder if they ever catered in Montreal. I've only done the southbound once, but IIRC everything was "Amtrak" as opposed to VIA - right down to Pepsi in the Pepsi days, when VIA featured Coke. I realize they could probably specify whatever they wanted, but would it really be worth the effort vs. loading up in New York for both directions? Airlines frequently "double-cater" when flying from a hub to a more remote airport with minimal services.
EXO's facility is at Montreal West. Food service is all Amtrak, stocked out of Sunnyside. They never call upon VIA Rail for that. FDA and Customs would never stand for cross-border food. All VIA does is clean the cars, possibly water them, maybe pump the toilets, and drop their little brown garbage bags on each seat like it were a VIA train.
Arrange for a lunch truck outside the depot, and don't buy any fruit, because Customs hates that - afraid of fruit flies.
The Lucien L'Allier depot has bare essentials of a small HVAC-equipped waiting room with seats, and a tiny EXO ticket office. It's the equivalent of the intercity bus terminal a few blocks away. Think of it as Metra's La Salle Street depot.
At least there are no stairs down to the platform to deal with. VIA is very stingy about use of Central's down escalators, generally used by seniors and people with needs from a separate waiting area. Most people walk down with their suitcases. That always pissed me off.
Arrange for a lunch truck outside the depot, and don't buy any fruit, because Customs hates that - afraid of fruit flies.
The Lucien L'Allier depot has bare essentials of a small HVAC-equipped waiting room with seats, and a tiny EXO ticket office. It's the equivalent of the intercity bus terminal a few blocks away. Think of it as Metra's La Salle Street depot.
At least there are no stairs down to the platform to deal with. VIA is very stingy about use of Central's down escalators, generally used by seniors and people with needs from a separate waiting area. Most people walk down with their suitcases. That always pissed me off.
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As @Amtrak25 pointed out, Amtrak trains aren't commissaried in Canada. The Cascades to Vancouver were commissaried out of Seattle for a round trip, the Adirondack out of Sunnyside for a round trip, and the Maple Leaf commissaried out of Sunnyside for a round trip to Niagara Falls. VIA provided cafe service Nigara Falls Toronto with its own attendant and stock as from NFS to TWO it is a VIA operation using Amtrak equipment. I'll be looking forward to seeing if VIA still provides that cafe service when I ride again in November. I can see them no longer doing it due to staffing issues everyone seems to having now.
I've ridden the Cascades to Vancouver more times than I can count. The cafe was open in Canada, but that train ran sealed in Canada, making no stops and the Canadian customs inspection was done at the Pacific Central Station terminus in Vancouver. That train was informally treated as US soil, even to the extent that liquor service was allowed once the wheels started rolling in Vancouver, despite the fact they did not have a BC liquor license. I rode the Adirondack a few times, but I don't recall if the cafe was open north of the US border. The Adirondack didn't run sealed, stopping in St. Lambert and border inspection was done at the border onboard.
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The Adirondack's cafe is open north of the border, just not when stopped for Customs or a half hour in advance. They make announcments that they have to close down around Plattsburgh and St Jean. They accept Canadian currency, but at Amtrak's exchange rate, not XE's.
CN has evidently maintained the track for 30 and 49 MPH in various places for decades for Amtrak even though the Rouses Pt sub was never very important to them, especially after they rid themsevles of the CV, a cobbled togther set of lines, one small section near Castle Gardens was once their interurban subsidiary Montreal and Southern Counties.
The only hope I see is CN would resume their "goodwill", put it back to 30 MPH since the train was merely suspended, and don't want to be the villains killing the international service, important to North Country's NY's Congressional delegation.
CN has evidently maintained the track for 30 and 49 MPH in various places for decades for Amtrak even though the Rouses Pt sub was never very important to them, especially after they rid themsevles of the CV, a cobbled togther set of lines, one small section near Castle Gardens was once their interurban subsidiary Montreal and Southern Counties.
The only hope I see is CN would resume their "goodwill", put it back to 30 MPH since the train was merely suspended, and don't want to be the villains killing the international service, important to North Country's NY's Congressional delegation.
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Thanks. The Cascades accepted Canadian currency, too, also at Amtrak's exchange rate. All change was given in US currency, though.
Northbound the cafe closed at the Fraser River Bridge. Southbound the cafe was open while the train was sitting in the station, since it opened for boarding when the US Immigration inspection started, which was 75-90 minutes before departure. You couldn't get a beer until the train started to move, though.
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Surpised. I figure the LSA would want rid of Canadian money so as not to deal with its bookkeeping. Amtrak must haul it off to their bank (Capital One, hah !). They probably make a tidy little profit on it.
fdaley
OBS Chief
I guess I knew that. I just wasn't sure if they had to store that stuff somewhere off the train or if they just left it in the cafe fridges while the train was parked overnight. Apparently the latter.
This whole situation is patently ridiculous. CN gets what they want out of the U.S. with mergers and objections to other mergers (see CP & KCS) and Canadian/American passengers get the shaft. There has been study after study about U.S. and Canadian customs clearance being done at Central Station in Montreal for years. Both the "Vermonter" and the "Adirondack" should terminate there. Yes, I realize that Canada's Via's status is pretty unclear too, but in the interest of both countries, and the city of Montreal, this must be solved.
I hope you're right, but I think CN may perceive that killing an ongoing, operating service would be a PR problem that restarting a service that had been gone for well over 2 years might not be.
Someone needs to get to the Quebec National Assembly members on this and treat it as an insult to the Francophone community. Then, the members will get with the P.M. and the squeaky wheel gets taken care of. Granted that CN has long since ceased being a "Crown Corporation", but there are still "ways" to get cooperation. I lived in Vermont for 16 years and Montreal was a second home to us. Heck Vermont and Quebec even have reciprocal traffic tickets, violations etc. I know I have paid more than a few Montreal parking violations in my time. Will someone serve the travelling public? New York State is not the problem here obviously.
Just speculating - some legal blackmail that could go on behind the scenes - CN says they'll upgrade the tracks if Senator Durbin and Amtrak back off about suing CN about OTP on the IC. Also depends if he doesn’t mind doing favors for Schumer and Gillibrand as much as they all despise Stefonik.
Quebec seems to be pre-occupied with a pre-clearance facility design - AGAIN - a useless effort if they don't fix this.
Reciprocal traffic tickets - New Jersey and Pennsylvania don't even do that. Plattsburgh and Burlington with Montreal are almost like Detroit with Windsor, the two Soo's, or the two Niagara Falls.
As it stands now, the NY Congressional delegation and the North Country Chamber don't seem to know a thing about CN track issues. Of course, they have also ignored the recent scrapping of the Port Kent - Burlington ferries, which Keeseville and Ausable Chasm are not happy about.
I am 300 miles south of this, and I know more than they do.
Look, Stefanik represents NY-21, the largest district in area in the state and this train runs right through it. I concur with "turning the screws" on CN for OTP for the "City of New Orleans" and the trains to Carbondale. Also, they are going to lose with their delay tactics with the CP/KCS merger. We also have an Ambassador in Ottawa that can bring this up as well.
Vermont and New York State do not have reciprocal tickets and violations either.
