Crescent operations and schedule performance

[dadonatrain]

I can’t offer any statistics other than for a data sample of one, that being my own experience and attitudes!

When the Crescent left—or at least aimed to leave—Clemson and Greenville (the only stations anywhere near sensible for me to use, living between them as I do) around 11 pm or so, it was not unacceptable for me to get on and ride northbound. But now that the plan is not to even try to arrive there till about 0-dark-thirty in the middle of the night, IF they’re even close to on time, I am almost totally uninterested in staying up most of the night to take the train. Trouble is, no matter when I want to go on Amtrak, I have to start and end with the Crescent!

 

[jis]

According to the Host Railroad Reports (found at Amtrak Reports & Documents under "Host Railroad Reports") the Crescent OTP has not changed much over the last 12 months. But then again NS appears to be the least scheduled of the so called Precision Scheduled Railroad too. Mr. Moorman initiated Auto-Dispatcher apparently does everything but precision schedule operation.

 

[tricia]

According to the Host Railroad Reports (found at Amtrak Reports & Documents under "Host Railroad Reports") the Crescent OTP has not changed much over the last 12 months. But then again NS appears to be the least scheduled of the so called Precision Scheduled Railroad too. Mr. Moorman initiated Auto-Dispatcher apparently does everything but precision schedule operation.

So the crappy new schedule was supposed to be a trade-off for more reliable OTP---and instead, we now have BOTH a crappy schedule AND unreliable OTP.

 

[TheCrescent]

It has been now nearly a one year (June 2021) since the Crescent changed its northbound schedule to an afternoon rather than morning arrival into WAS. I am wondering are there any real valid statistics on passengers who have abandoned this train due to its significantly later times north of ATL?? If no real statistics perhaps someone on the forum has some unofficial data. I, myself, don't have a problem with the departure time at ATN, but the later arrival in WAS for me has become unacceptable.

Since the change, southbound ridership at Greenville is negligible; I have never seen any other sleeping car passenger get off or on there. I would expect that most people would take the same mode of travel round trip, and that this would indicate reduced northbound ridership, but I don’t know.

Compare this to even the late 1960s, when there was a set-out sleeper and multiple daily trains with sleeping cars there.

 

[Trogdor]

So the crappy new schedule was supposed to be a trade-off for more reliable OTP---and instead, we now have BOTH a crappy schedule AND unreliable OTP.

Of course. Give them more time and it just gives them more wiggle room to play, and they will use it up.

I guess it's part of the "brain drain" that hit Amtrak in the last few years. A decade ago, there was essentially no willingness to add time to LD schedules because they knew reliability wouldn't really get better and the time would never come back out.

 

[mp492_5]

We always liked going to New Orleans once a year on the Crescent from Greenville but now it doesn’t get back to Greenville until 3-5 in the AM so our days of having fun in New Orleans is over. Before the schedule change on the last trip we had didn’t arrive in NOL until midnight and the bars had even quit serving food for the night. Now I just use Amtrak to wake me up at 5:42 in the morning, I am done with them.

 

[west point]

IMO the stupid departure time from NOL is to allow the Meridian crew to get required rest to return to MEI next morning. The loss in revenue from this late departure would more than be made up by returning to the 0700 departure or even 0630. One idea for the departure would be for the Crescent and 1st mobile train to leave NOL at the same time nose to tail to allow for one less Amtrak eastbound over NS in the morning.

 

[GaSteve]

IMO the stupid departure time from NOL is to allow the Meridian crew to get required rest to return to MEI next morning. The loss in revenue from this late departure would more than be made up by returning to the 0700 departure or even 0630. One idea for the departure would be for the Crescent and 1st mobile train to leave NOL at the same time nose to tail to allow for one less Amtrak eastbound over NS in the morning.

I imagine you are correct regarding the NOL departure time and crew rest.

 

[Palmland]

I was filing old Trains magazines and came across this ad from 1961. About the only thing that's better 60 years later is the bedrooms have showers and the upper berth has a window. This ad was apparently aimed at the business traveler, a customer that went away a long time ago as has the "fine dining and lounge facilities for all passengers".

 

[Amtrak709]

Palmland: Thanks for posting that news ad clip. As I have noted in the past, W. Graham Claytor Jr (my railroad icon idol) is probably sad like me to see what has happened to "his" train. I am also sad--due to the Crescent's change in northbound schedule and continuing on time inconsistencies --that I have had to seek alternate transportation for the 205 roundtrip sleeper trips I have made over the last five or six years ATN-WAS-ATN just prior to COVID in March, 2020. A railfan's dream: gets a weekly sleeper train trip and someone else also pays for it. My association with the Crescent has been most of my entire life (I am 74 years old). P.S: I would not mind seeing the return of Heritage roomettes . I loved them!!

 

[TheCrescent]

The northbound Crescent's delays, particularly between Georgia and the Carolinas, are still atrocious, with the train frequently hours late.

I see that Virginia is working with Norfolk Southern to increase the number of Amtrak trains in the state. Why is timekeeping on Norfolk Southern lines in Virginia (and an expansion of service there) not a problem, but the Crescent around Atlanta is a mess?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The northbound Crescent's delays, particularly between Georgia and the Carolinas, are still atrocious, with the train frequently hours late.

I see that Virginia is working with Norfolk Southern to increase the number of Amtrak trains in the state. Why is timekeeping on Norfolk Southern lines in Virginia (and an expansion of service there) not a problem, but the Crescent around Atlanta is a mess?

Is GA interested in improving timekeeping?

 

[jis]

The northbound Crescent's delays, particularly between Georgia and the Carolinas, are still atrocious, with the train frequently hours late.

I see that Virginia is working with Norfolk Southern to increase the number of Amtrak trains in the state. Why is timekeeping on Norfolk Southern lines in Virginia (and an expansion of service there) not a problem, but the Crescent around Atlanta is a mess?

It may have something to do with the fact that Virginia is negotiating and bringing cash to the table while Georgia is not even talking.

 

[TheVig]

Is GA interested in improving timekeeping?

Only if they had a interest in passenger rail.

I've struck up conversations with riders who live in Atlanta. Passenger rail advocacy or simply fighting for better doesn't seem to click for some. Many have told me they are simply happy to have a cheap option, other than Greyhound, since they can't afford to fly.

 

[TheVig]

It may have something to do with the fact that Virginia is negotiating and bringing cash to the table while Georgia is not even talking.

Same goes for SC.

 

[tricia]

I understand that this is beyond Amtrak's control, but ... Isn't it idiotic NATIONAL policy to have the timekeeping and connectivity of our NATIONAL passenger train network effectively held hostage by individual states?

 

[TheCrescent]

I understand that this is beyond Amtrak's control, but ... Isn't it idiotic NATIONAL policy to have the timekeeping and connectivity of our NATIONAL passenger train network effectively held hostage by individual states?

No because (1) some trains are not national trains; they are state-supported, and (2) a national administrator could be like GA or SC, hostile to passenger rail.

 

[zephyr17]

I understand that this is beyond Amtrak's control, but ... Isn't it idiotic NATIONAL policy to have the timekeeping and connectivity of our NATIONAL passenger train network effectively held hostage by individual states?

Up to the states to decide whether they want to fund rail infrastructure improvements or not. States that have state supported services, like Virginia, Illinois, Washington, Oregon, etc tend to fund rail infrastructure improvements, those that don't fund rail passenger services generally don't.

 

[west point]

The northbound Crescent's delays, particularly between Georgia and the Carolinas, are still atrocious, with the train frequently hours late.

I see that Virginia is working with Norfolk Southern to increase the number of Amtrak trains in the state. Why is timekeeping on Norfolk Southern lines in Virginia (and an expansion of service there) not a problem, but the Crescent around Atlanta is a mess?

You are really focusing on the wrong part of the route. 20/2 late out of ATL on time out of CLT all way to Baltimore so far. #20 /01 lost 2-1/2 hours NOL to Slidell . It never stopped but ran very slow behind freight that it finally passed at Slidell. Roday's #20 starting toloose time north of Laurell.
#19/02 on time out of ATL today but loosing time between several stations. The big Crescent problems are betweenNOL and ATL both ways. Never unually happens same place 2 days in a row.

 

[TheCrescent]

You are really focusing on the wrong part of the route. 20/2 late out of ATL on time out of CLT all way to Baltimore so far. #20 /01 lost 2-1/2 hours NOL to Slidell . It never stopped but ran very slow behind freight that it finally passed at Slidell. Roday's #20 starting toloose time north of Laurell.
#19/02 on time out of ATL today but loosing time between several stations. The big Crescent problems are betweenNOL and ATL both ways. Never unually happens same place 2 days in a row.

No, I’m not focusing on the wrong part of the route.

If you look at historical on-time performance information, the northbound Crescent out of Atlanta and Greenville is often hours and hours late. The scheduled 11pm departure from Atlanta often ends up being much later, making the Crescent useless for a major metropolitan area, and useless for Greenville, which has a metropolitan area of about a million people yet negligible ridership (in part due to this atrocious timekeeping).

 

[Ryan]

His point sailed over your head. You’re focused on delays at Atlanta and points north. The cause of those delays are on the other side of Atlanta. It’s not like the train arrives on time in Atlanta and then sits there for hours.

 

[TheCrescent]

His point sailed over your head. You’re focused on delays at Atlanta and points north. The cause of those delays are on the other side of Atlanta. It’s not like the train arrives on time in Atlanta and then sits there for hours.

Yes, the delays do start south of Atlanta but ridership has historically been high in Atlanta and north of Atlanta so my concern is impact on ridership. Maybe a separate train originating in Atlanta would be the solution.

 

[GAT]

Yes, the delays do start south of Atlanta but ridership has historically been high in Atlanta and north of Atlanta so my concern is impact on ridership. Maybe a separate train originating in Atlanta would be the solution.

That might help northbound passengers boarding at Atlanta and points north, but it would do the opposite for passengers from points south wanting to go beyond Atlanta. Unless, of course, your proposed train is in addition to the Crescent.

 

[TheCrescent]

That might help northbound passengers boarding at Atlanta and points north, but it would do the opposite for passengers from points south wanting to go beyond Atlanta. Unless, of course, your proposed train is in addition to the Crescent.

Good point. There ought to be a new additional train that originates in Atlanta and heads north.

 

[Cal]

That might help northbound passengers boarding at Atlanta and points north, but it would do the opposite for passengers from points south wanting to go beyond Atlanta. Unless, of course, your proposed train is in addition to the Crescent.

Good point. There ought to be a new additional train that originates in Atlanta and heads north.

Just pointing out that in post #47 @TheCrescent did indeed say a separate train.