Crescent operations and schedule performance

[Ryan]

That's a pipe dream with little chance of actually occurring.

Meanwhile, if you fix the root cause of the delays, you can make the train better for everyone. Looking at the year to date data:


This train's in bad shape in Alabama. Solve the problem there and everyone wins.

(incidentally, @acelafan, there's an issue with stations being in the correct order here - CVS and CLP have shifted a little further south )

 

[toddinde]

I understand that the reason for the later departure from NOL is due to mandatory crew rest after arrival the night before. That makes sense, but it’s not viable because the 11:30 departure from Atlanta northbound is already unreasonable. When it’s usually 1:30/2:00 am, the service is virtually useless. Perhaps it’s time to do a true overnight Atlanta to Washington/New York train, then have a Crescent/Star with NOL and DFW section. Atlanta is too important to have such poor service North.

 

[BlackDiamond]

That's a pipe dream with little chance of actually occurring.

Meanwhile, if you fix the root cause of the delays, you can make the train better for everyone. Looking at the year to date data:
View attachment 28776

This train's in bad shape in Alabama. Solve the problem there and everyone wins.

(incidentally, @acelafan, there's an issue with stations being in the correct order here - CVS and CLP have shifted a little further south )

Strange that for several of the NEC stops the arrival is about 20 min late and departure on the order of 60 min late. An average 40 min dwell time? Something doesn't make sense.

 

[acelafan]

That's a pipe dream with little chance of actually occurring.

Meanwhile, if you fix the root cause of the delays, you can make the train better for everyone. Looking at the year to date data:
View attachment 28776

This train's in bad shape in Alabama. Solve the problem there and everyone wins.

(incidentally, @acelafan, there's an issue with stations being in the correct order here - CVS and CLP have shifted a little further south )

@Ryan - Thank you for pointing out that error, there was a problem with the source data for Jan 2 2022, which has been corrected.

One note I should include....because the gathering routines for retreiving the train data have changed over the years, I do not always have both the arrival and departure times for each scheduled station stop. Sometimes a station does not report arrival, but reports departures and vice versa. I try to consolidate the data the best I can.

So for most of the runs it's best to look at the departure data for delay trends. Departure times show up more often than arrival times (exept for the last station, of course). I tried to make the graphs stand out for departure delays instead of arrival delays.



But yeah, the Crescent OTP is pretty abysmal!

 

[Cal]

I understand that the reason for the later departure from NOL is due to mandatory crew rest after arrival the night before.

Unless the conductors and engineers turn immediately then I'd disagree with this as OBS have no mandatory crew rest. I've never heard of operating crew turning with the train at the base, however I guess for the overnight it would make sense.

 

[GAT]

Unless the conductors and engineers turn immediately then I'd disagree with this as OBS have no mandatory crew rest. I've never heard of operating crew turning with the train at the base, however I guess for the overnight it would make sense.

Unless the conductors and engineers turn immediately then I'd disagree with this as OBS have no mandatory crew rest. I've never heard of operating crew turning with the train at the base, however I guess for the overnight it would make sense.

I'm not sure of this directly relates to your comment about turn-around operating crews, but my southbound departure Crescent out of Atlanta at the end of April was delayed a couple of hours as it sat in the station waiting for the operating crew, who had to rest a minimum certain number of hours because their northbound Crescent arrived so late the night before.

 

[Cal]

I'm not sure of this directly relates to your comment about turn-around operating crews, but my southbound departure Crescent out of Atlanta at the end of April was delayed a couple of hours as it sat in the station waiting for the operating crew, who had to rest a minimum certain number of hours because their northbound Crescent arrived so late the night before.

It does, thanks!

 

[west point]

Meridian , Ms covers both MEI <> NOL and MEI <> ATL, Both turns from MEI arrive one night and go out next morning. 19 scheduled into NOL at 2102. 9 hour layover 20 cannot leave before 0602. 20 scheduled to leave NOL at 0915. Therefore if 19 arrives NOL at 0016 or later departure is delay from NOL.

At ATL 19 scheduled to leave at 0908. if 20 arrives at 0008 or later departure has to be delayed.Its scheduled arrival is 2300. Not much time to play with.

IMO it is time for Amtrak to bite the bullet and change the NOL departure back to 0700 or better still 0600. That would enable 20's ATL departure to either 2015 or 2115. Now if the 55 minute schedule pad MEI <> BHM was reduced then arrivals at NOL and ATL would even be earlier. NOTE: 20 made up 54 minutes TCL - BHM leg today.

Amtrak needs to change the MEI <> NOL crew assignments. Extra day's layover in NOL would cost about $20,800 / month or ~~ $700.00 / day for T&E crew > OBS NOL based no change. Extra revenue from ATL -<> WASH and north would more than enough .. single coach fare $168 - 200, Room $600+. Note another coach needed now as had to go out week to find any fares. 5 extra coache passengers or just over 1 sleeper will make up crew extra costs.

Crescent desperately needs another coach. Would take 4 mpre but only 2 more if 2 could be cut off in ATL then just 2 more needed.

 

[JRR]

The timing and lateness of the Crescent at Greenville SC has made train travel totally impractical. Not only are departures at bad times but the arrivals wherever you are going are now also inconvenient!

The mess in Alabama needs to be cleaned up and the schedule revised so Atlanta and elsewhere can be at reasonable times. Until that happens, the Crescent will continue to decline.

 

[Amtrak25]

The inconvenient truth is the only way to fix the Crescent to be a meaningful means of transportation absent any change in NS's behavior is to kill it south of Atlanta and put it back on its former schedule.

 

[west point]

The inconvenient truth is the only way to fix the Crescent to be a meaningful means of transportation absent any change in NS's behavior is to kill it south of Atlanta and put it back on its former schedule.

As much as I would despise this proposal it may have merit. A big ""IF"" the Meridian <> DFW train comes about ione proposal was to have it to go to ATL only. If so it could be scheduled to arrive ATL about 1200. Have a stub train MEI <> NOL. The abysmal NS time keeping would allow for the DFW train to still connect to a Crescent reroute.

Change the Crescent to leave NOL at 0600 going by way of CSX Mobile - Montgomery - Lagrange , Ga. That could be a substitute of the one NOL <> Mobile proposed train. Crescent would arrive ATL about 1830 - 1900 and depart original times onward to NYP.

Prior to 1970 legacy time keeping for the 2 different routings of ATL <> NOL never were more than 30 minutes different. Now the CSX ATL - Montgomery West point route is a much higher speed route as compared to it before 1970. Before 1970 that route had no CTC and many manual switches and a few smash boards. 175 miles in 4:30 easily become 4:00 now.

 

[tricia]

The major, perhaps primary, ridership potential for New Orleans is tourists traveling from points north. A Crescent departure at 6AM isn't remotely tourist-friendly, especially if it's paired with a too-late-for-dinner arrival in NOL.

 

[Amtrak25]

A Meridien - DFW train is DOA.

I have zero confidence CSX would admit Amtrak to any route they do not now run on.

So we are back to Atlanta as a terminus if this route is to be anything but a joke that it is. Run a separate stub train Atlanta - New Orleans for local travel not connecting with the Crescent.

 

[tricia]

A Meridien - DFW train is DOA.

I have zero confidence CSX would admit Amtrak to any route they do not now run on.

So we are back to Atlanta as a terminus if this route is to be anything but a joke that it is. Run a separate stub train Atlanta - New Orleans for local travel not connecting with the Crescent.

NOL needs BETTER connectivity with Amtrak's national system, not worse. As it is, passengers need to build in an overnight in New Orleans to connect between any of the three trains that stop there. Adding an obligatory overnight in Atlanta for anyone heading to NOL for a weekend from NC, SC, VA, or DC makes that problem much worse.

 

[Amtrak25]

NOL needs BETTER connectivity with Amtrak's national system, not worse. As it is, passengers need to build in an overnight in New Orleans to connect between any of the three trains that stop there. Adding an obligatory overnight in Atlanta for anyone heading to NOL for a weekend from NC, SC, VA, or DC makes that problem much worse.

Then we will go on killing the much larger NEC - Atlanta market to preserve whatever little there is south of Atlanta. That is the hand we are dealt. There is also some turnover of riders in Atlanta.

 

[tricia]

Then we will go on killing the much larger NEC - Atlanta market to preserve whatever little there is south of Atlanta. That is the hand we are dealt. There is also some turnover of riders in Atlanta.

Perhaps "whatever little there is south of Atlanta" is so little because the schedule is awful and the OTP is so poor. In addition to poor connectivity with other trains in NOL.

 

[jis]

Perhaps "whatever little there is south of Atlanta" is so little because the schedule is awful and the OTP is so poor. In addition to poor connectivity with other trains in NOL.

Even before Amtrak operated this train, South of Atlanta was light enough that Southern Railway ran the service south of Atlanta only three times a week. So the imbalance of demand between North and South of Atlanta is nothing new.

 

[Amtrak25]

Daily or tri-weekly, the SOU Rwy through Tom Downs' Amtrak ran a much larger consist north of Atlanta than south. Not possible today with the switcher engine job abolished and a train yard ripped up. Either they terminate the whole train there on a siding or it all goes through. Bad station situation on a dysfunctional Class I RR. The Claytors would not approve and would have many heads roll.

 

[Jack Kittle]

How about an ATL-NOL night train with connections at NOL to Sunset and CONO? Then put the ATL-NYP section back on a reasonable early evening departure from ATL. Passengers connecting between the services would have a day to explore ATL.

 

[Amtrak25]

How about an ATL-NOL night train with connections at NOL to Sunset and CONO? Then put the ATL-NYP section back on a reasonable early evening departure from ATL. Passengers connecting between the services would have a day to explore ATL.

Not a bad idea, but then 2 trains would layup in Atlanta at a time. I don't know if they have room for that.

 

[west point]

Pre Amtrak both L&N and SOU early morning departures from NOL were daily and had heavy coach traffic. 13 hours L&N - West point route and 11 hours SOU. Now NS 13 hours.

 

[jis]

Pre Amtrak both L&N and SOU early morning departures from NOL were daily and had heavy coach traffic. 13 hours L&N - West point route and 11 hours SOU. Now NS 13 hours.

Of course if you go far enough back there were multiple frequencies.

 

[jimdex]

How about an ATL-NOL night train with connections at NOL to Sunset and CONO? Then put the ATL-NYP section back on a reasonable early evening departure from ATL. Passengers connecting between the services would have a day to explore ATL.

I would suggest putting the Crescent back on its traditional schedule between New York and New Orleans but extending the Crescent with an overnight segment between New Orleans and Houston, and turning the Sunset into a Houston-Los Angeles train. This would allow a same-day connection between the Crescent and the Sunset, and also give Crescent a larger terminating market.

 

[Amtrak25]

The whole problem is getting across Alabama. There is no going back to the traditional schedule unless it is truncated to Atlanta.

 

[Ryan]

The whole problem is getting across Alabama. There is no going back to the traditional schedule unless it is truncated to Atlanta.

...or the schedule problems in AL are resolved. That will hinge upon Amtrak getting a "big stick" with success further south in AL.