Derailment of Cascades #501, DuPont WA, 2017-12-18

[norfolkwesternhenry]

Trump is saying that it is due to an aging overpass crumpling apart?

Wasn't the cutoff just constructed, or is this part of the old line.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

It is part of an old line that was upgraded.

Ah thank you, was it modified in anyway, such as superelevating?
Sent from my SM-G930P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[Mark P]

Overhead photos:

https://imgur.com/a/mCttO

https://i.imgur.com/pHGyhbj.jpg

 

[jis]

Trump is saying that it is due to an aging overpass crumpling apart?

Wasn't the cutoff just constructed, or is this part of the old line.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

It is part of an old line that was upgraded.

Ah thank you, was it modified in anyway, such as superelevating?
Sent from my SM-G930P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

The track was essentially re-laid for higher speed. that would probably involve adjusting both superelevation and curve spirals.

 

[Bob Dylan]

CNN just had a Retired NTSB ""Expert" say that the PTC was NOT Activated!???

 

[jis]

Why would anyone assume that PTC was active in that area beats me. A safe default assumption at present is that PTC is not active, unless one has specific information that it is.

 

[Bierboy]

Some close-up photos of damage -- https://twitter.com/PierceSheriff/status/942804212701806594/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-us-canada-42401707

 

[Bierboy]

Washington State DOT statement --

 

[PRR 60]

Discussion and speculation as to what happened out there is permitted.

 

[PRR 60]

Why would anyone assume that PCT was active in that area beats me. A safe default assumption at present is that PTC is not active, unless one has specific information that it is.

Amtrak CEO reportedly confirmed that PTC was not active. It was slated to go live next year.

 

[jis]

Discussion and speculation as to what happened out there is permitted.

Thank you!

 

[Agent]

Something I haven't noticed before: Google has added the location of the derailment to Google Maps.

 

[KmH]

Discussion and speculation as to what happened out there is permitted.

Thank you!

Having now seen where the various parts of the train came to rest and the Google Maps overhead of the tracks, it's pretty obvious to me after doing some basic math, that the train was going to fast to make the curve.

Emergency Stop may have been initiated, but way to late.

Why the train was going to fast is what we won't know for some time.

 

[KmH]

Like a Jacobs Bogie?

 

[Lonestar648]

It was reported that the train was traveling 81.1 MPH by Amtrak tracking close to where the accident occurred with a speed limit of 79. Not sure how accurate the tracking info is.

 

[George K]

It was reported that the train was traveling 81.1 MPH by Amtrak tracking close to where the accident occurred with a speed limit of 79. Not sure how accurate the tracking info is.

So the obvious question is....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Like a Jacobs Bogie?

Yes and no. The wheel set spans two cars, but it is a single axial pair, not a tandem, and the interior of the carbody finds itself between the wheels, which is the main point of the design, or at least one of them. Also, the way they are set up, the car pendularly moves against the turn, like a running person.

 

[jis]

From Amtrak news conference ...

The trailing P42 was not under power. The train was entirely powered by the SC-44 at the head end.

The track owned by Sound Transit dispatched by BNSF.

Like a Jacobs Bogie?

Not quite. This is a very different design from the Jacobs bogies as seen on TGVs.

There are a few other possibly coincidental similarities with the derailment of 188 on the NEC. The most striking to me is that both trains were being powered by a new more capable locomotive that the operators are newly getting used to. I have no idea whether this is a factor in any way.

 

[caravanman]

Sad news indeed. I heard that local folk were not happy about Amtrak using this new route? If the train did hit something...?

I guess simple overspeeding, possibly due to driver distraction by other folk in the cab. Just a guess on my part.

Ed.

 

[jackal]

I think the train would have to emergency brake to have any hope of slowing down from 80 to 30 in that distance.

Wouldn't it have to be a sizable truck to derail the train? In other words a pickup truck is not likely to derail a train.

I think over speed for the curve is still the most likely cause.

Time will add clarity to what actually happened.

On an inaugural run with VIPs aboard, how likely is it the engineer was alone in the cab? Granted, they'd been running tests for weeks, but still, it seems that early on in its use and with VIPs aboard, chances were there were two or three people (at least two of whom were qualified on the territory) in the locomotive cab...which seems to me to make an overspeed error unlikely.

How sure are we the curve is a 30mph curve? It seems to just be speculation based on something said on Twitter.

Edit: here's the link to the specific tweet in question. I had clicked the link in post #56 before but it was just to the account, not to the specific tweet, so I didn't see the actual tweet. It clearly does show T-30/P-30: https://twitter.com/AlexRozierK5/status/942821880775327744

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Just because a curve is an F30 does not mean its a P30, let alone a T30.

 

[jebr]

I recall seeing on one of the local news live streams the sign for the curve showing it was a P-30. There was one other speed limit as well, not sure if it was T-30 or F-30.

 

[bretton88]

Just because a curve is an F30 does not mean its a P30, let alone a T30.

The curve is T-30 and P-30. No F listed at all.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well, if it really was going 81.1 in a T-30, than that would be an overspeed. But we also don't know for sure that Amtrak's sensors are completely accurate.

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that the engineer on this inaugural run of a route would be able to be that distracted.

 

[JoeBas]

I find it exceedingly hard to believe that the engineer on this inaugural run of a route would be able to be that distracted.

IMO, depends on if there were interlopers in the cab, and how distracting they were being.

 

[keelhauled]

Several years ago a Via train derailed with three people in the cab. No one caught the misaligned switch I think it was. Although I don't think anyone has said whether there were multiple people in the cab in 501.