EB mess

[guest]

Yes, but is the moratorium still on? Was there a second avalanche?

 

[RalphCT]

Yes, but is the moratorium still on? Was there a second avalanche?

the avalanche was around midnight Sunday night Mountain Time. Still 9 1/3 hours more before the 48 hour period is over. I don't know, however, if the track has passed inspection for passenger travel.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[montana mike]

According to BNSF in WFH both tracks are clear and freights are moving on this line. With the forecast for rain below 6000 feet over the next several days and temperatures above freezing during this time this could cause additional issues, but one never knows at this time of the year. The snowpack is above normal and avalanches can occur for a couple more months yet.

 

[tim49424]

Looks like both 8 left Seattle and 7 left Chicago on time tonight, so I'm assuming the derailment is cleaned up? However 28 hasn't departed PDX yet.

 

[CHamilton]

Apparently the last avalanche/snowslide near Glacier Park was on Monday, so the 48-hour moratorium should have expired sometime today (Wed. 3/5) unless there has been another event since then.

 

[tim49424]

I'd momentarily forgotten about the avalanche near Whitefish.....the derailment seemed to be just about resolved when the avalanche happened. Well, it looks like full trains headed in each direction.

 

[CHamilton]

Amtrak Busing Passengers Over Marias Pass Amid Avalanche Threat
Passengers will ride motor coaches between Whitefish and Shelby until Saturday
By Justin Franz, 03-05-14
Amtrak is busing its passengers between Whitefish and Shelby until at least Saturday amid the persistent threat of avalanches on Marias Pass, company officials said.
According to Amtrak [sic, should be BNSF] spokesperson Marc Magliari, passengers will board buses at either Whitefish or Shelby for the trip over Marias Pass. Meanwhile, the empty passenger train will continue over the mountain. According to Magliari, BNSF rules require that loaded passenger trains not run if there has been a recent slide.

 

[JoeBas]

LOL can you leave your roomette "Set up" while being bussed? Might be nice to travel "light" if having to ride the bu...

 

[anir dendroica]

Looks like there was another avalanche this morning.

http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-consumer/CBDA4A726231112B86257C9300536A7C?Open

 

[RRUserious]

Thanks, Mother Nature! You're BFF of the train traveler!

 

[fairviewroad]

Wow, what a pain. Wonder if the buses are making station stops along the way? One would think so, since the most logical highway route would basically take you right past all of the missed stops.

To be most efficient, time-wise, you'd have at least three buses. One to pick up passengers at skipped stations that would be timed to meet the train at the opposite end, one to drop off passengers at skipped stations, and one (or more) express buses. But I'd guess there's not the passenger load at the skipped stations to merit both a "pick-up" and a "drop-off" bus.

 

[CHamilton]

And from the NW Mudslide Season thread, the wonderful news that EB passengers will also be bussed between Everett and

Seattle until Saturday morning, thanks to a mudslide at Mukilteo.

 

[CHamilton]

Avalanches again block rail lines

For the second time in a week, BNSF Railway’s main line across Northwest Montana is closed after several avalanches came down on the tracks between Essex and Marias Pass....

The slides have stopped all rail traffic in the area due to the threat of continued avalanches in the area south of Glacier National Park.

Jones said the railroad is asking park officials for permission to conduct avalanche control on park lands above the tracks....

Jones says it’s unclear how long the rail line will be blocked. As of noon Thursday, track clearing efforts were yet to begin.

Beginning late Sunday, the tracks were closed for about 12 hours while a slide covered the tracks with nearly 7 feet of snow and debris.

Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari says the railroad continues to bus passengers between stations in Shelby and Whitefish.

Amtrak trains had been running without passengers along the Middle Fork corridor because of the avalanche risk.

 

[RalphCT]

The problem with avalanche mitigation was brought up and discussed between BNSF and Glacier National park several years ago. A study was done and recommendations made. How many of those recommendations did BNSF implement? None.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[PRR 60]

The problem with avalanche mitigation was brought up and discussed between BNSF and Glacier National park several years ago. A study was done and recommendations made. How many of those recommendations did BNSF implement? None.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

What kind of recommendations were made?

 

[Carey]

Ok guys. I travel from Seattle on Sunday 3/9. Any idea if I will go of not? This is my one time a year train trip

 

[CHamilton]

The weather forecast for the Seattle area calls for continuing rain and wind, which means that there could be additional mudslides between Seattle and Everett. If slides happen, train 8 will not be allowed to travel with passengers between those two points for 48 hours after the time of the slide. But you would likely be bussed from Seattle, and would start your train journey in Everett.

BNSF is also following the 48-hour rule in Montana, so if additional slides occur near Glacier Park, you could also be bussed in that area. But our Montana members can tell us how likely that is.

In any event, Amtrak will get you there. The worst-case scenario (depending on how far you are going) seems to be a bus, then a train, then another bus, then another train. Not a great situation, but better than nothing.

 

[Ispolkom]

Well on the bright side, BNSF is now attacking avalanche-prone slopes between Essex and Marias Pass with helicopter-dropped explosives. I'm sure that will work out well...

 

[RalphCT]

The National Park Service supported building more snow sheds. There is at least one missing snow shed becase that one burned some years ago and was never replaced. Other snow sheds are too short for the avalanche chutes they are in. And numerous avalanche chutes run down to the tracks where there are no snow sheds. I don't have the actual study in hand but there was a cost analysis that indicated the construction of on ore snow sheds would, in the long term be offset by savings from continuously running freight trains during periods of high avalanche danger.

The BNSF favored using more explosive release the snow and bring it down. One big negative to this is that trains would be halted when avalanche danger was high, then explosives would release the snow and have to be removed from the tracks before train traffic could resume. But BNSF was adamant that explosive were the way to go.

In the meantime, for this period of high avalanche danger Glacier National Park, which borders the BNSF main line through the Steven Canyon west of Marias Pass, has permitted the use of explosives to bring down unstable snow slopes.the story was reported by the Missoulian. A link is here:

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/avalanche-blocks-rail-line-between-essex-and-marias-pass/article_8cae2bd2-a569-11e3-83c9-001a4bcf887a.html

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[CHamilton]

Great Falls Tribune
Whoa! Randall Powell sent us this photo of the avalanche between Essex and Marias Pass that blocked train traffic for the second time this week: http://gftrib.com/1f3iB70

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Well on the bright side, BNSF is now attacking avalanche-prone slopes between Essex and Marias Pass with helicopter-dropped explosives. I'm sure that will work out well...

Wait, if they have helicopters... instead of dropping expensive, dangerous, and time-consuming explosives, just use them to carry the passengers over the avalanche! No buses needed, problem solved!

 

[CHamilton]

Passengers Wait Hours For Empire Builder, America's Least Reliable Train

Northwest News Network | March 6, 2014 6:04 p.m.

The worst train in America is right here in the Northwest: the famed Empire Builder.

It’s been around since the early 20th century and takes passengers from Seattle or Portland past vistas in Glacier National Park and the Rockies, all the way to Chicago.

But the sudden rise in freight traffic in and out of North Dakota’s oil fields has made the Empire Builder the country’s most unreliable train.

“There was a time when you could set your clock, as they say, by the Empire Builder,” says Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari.

Clearly, that time has passed. The Empire Builder’s on-time performance rating is the worst in the country: 31 percent for the last year. In December, it dipped to 15 percent.

Magliari says passengers have seen eight, 10, even 12-hour delays....

The Empire builder is Amtrak’s most popular overnight train with 500,000 passengers per year. But lately ridership has declined.

Amtrak is in talks with BNSF, which actually owns the tracks and decides which trains go and which trains wait. Some of the snags are temporary, like weather and track closures. But the longer-term problem facing passengers is that the Empire Builder uses the very same set of tracks the booming oil industry needs to transport long, slow-moving freight cars — and that shows little sign of letting up.

 

[montana mike]

Well, at least Amtrak is finally admitting they have problem! The avalanche danger will get worse before it gets better. The Spring rains at higher levels in the Mountains, especially Glacier National Park, often create conditions for the snowpack that cause avalanches. This year the snow depths are above average and we are now experiencing mild temperatures which is raising the snow level to sometimes above 6000 feet (meanwhile the snowpack doesn't reach maximum depth at the highest levels in the Park until early April), which is a recipe for very unstable snow. I have seen major avalanches occur into late April and early May, when the snowpack has been deep, so no rest for the weary I am afraid until we get substantial melting and warmer temperatures

 

[jis]

Alaska Rail Road has its own Mortar brigade to shoot at avalanche prone slopes and bring the snow down more predictably. It was talked about a lot in the "Railroad Alaska" series on the "Destination America" cable channel.

I found this very interesting paper titled: Evolution of Avalanche Risk Reduction on the Alaska Railroad (PDF).

 

[CHamilton]

From Facebook:

Tonight will be one of those nights where #7 and #8 may be at Midway Station in St. Paul at the same time....get those cameras ready.

When life gives you lemons, make foam