EB mess

[Ryan]

One entity is a railroad, privately held and run. The other is our "government". Which one would you rather see running the show?

One is dedicated to making as much money for Warren Buffet as possible.

The other is supposedly for the benefit of all US citizens.

I know which way I would vote.

 

[RRUserious]

I'd lke to see separate shows. In most part of the country, private companies have no INTEREST in passenger traffic. So its not as if there's a choice. Oh, I think you could get a few short runs cherrypicked, with the result of what's left being even more heavily-subsidized. I'd just like to see the trains running on tracks not battered by freight traffic that doesn't require a smooth ride.

 

[EB_OBS]

Just my observation but, the broken rails have been much more frequent lately than derailments.

 

[Ispolkom]

btw-I saw images and specs of the first 5000 new tanker cars BNSF will be taking delivery of this spring. A major step up in the safety and durability. Glad to see this.

:-(

BNSF owns tanker cars?

 

[montana mike]

One entity is a railroad, privately held and run. The other is our "government". Which one would you rather see running the show?

One is dedicated to making as much money for Warren Buffet as possible.

The other is supposedly for the benefit of all US citizens.

I know which way I would vote.

Ah yes, one has the efficiency of the USPS and the customer service of the IRS and the other actually really does something productive.....

LOL

 

[montana mike]

btw-I saw images and specs of the first 5000 new tanker cars BNSF will be taking delivery of this spring. A major step up in the safety and durability. Glad to see this.

:-(

BNSF owns tanker cars?

Yes, and they are buying more. There are many leased cars, but BNSF is also buying thousands as well. Double walls, overlapping welds with a high grade of steel that resists punctures. Heavier than many of the current models, but exceeding the latest govt safety standards (which many of their "grandfathered" cars fail to meet btw)

 

[CHamilton]

There is a link to the news about BNSF buying tanker cars here.

 

[montana mike]

Looking at all of the very late Empire Builders today the weather and freight traffic appear to be really taking their toll on the schedule. #8 in ND is almost 10 hours behind. Yesterday's EB was about that late in CHI and the day before the EB was 14 hours late--ouch.....

 

[fairviewroad]

Northstar, Amtrak delays prompt legislative hearing Thursday

Minnesota state lawmakers are holding a hearing. I know, what good will a single hearing do? But at the very least

it's on their radar.

 

[montana mike]

The statement by the BNSF spokesperson is a joke: "it will take a few days to resolve the congestion". What planet is that person from??? The freight issue is systemwide from Washington state all the way into Wisconsin and will take years to resolve, not hours or days. Arrrrrrgh.

 

[RRUserious]

The local Fox channel did a special report on oil tankers that cross the Twin Cities. They said a derailment in Wayzata could take out a main part of downtown, could even wipe out the police and fire departments. They also said that one railroad actually got approval to DOUBLE their speed in the urban part of the metro. Smart. One guy had his office within sight of the BNSF tracks and said he saw maintenance out there working constantly on the tracks.

Random question. No way to engineer fire suppression into the trains? Yeh, I know its an expense, but so is explosions. In Formula 1, they re-engineered fuel tanks decades ago to make fire less of a danger.

 

[Ryan]

One entity is a railroad, privately held and run. The other is our "government". Which one would you rather see running the show?

One is dedicated to making as much money for Warren Buffet as possible.

The other is supposedly for the benefit of all US citizens.

I know which way I would vote.

Ah yes, one has the efficiency of the USPS and the customer service of the IRS and the other actually really does something productive.....LOL

This tangent certainly is out of scope for this thread (and would probably quickly run afoul of the "no politics" dictum), but government done poorly shouldn't mean that we just throw in the towel and throw our lot in with those whose mission it is in life to separate you and I from as much of our hard-earned money as possible in order to personally enrich themselves.

Instead, let's push for government to do things right and do their jobs for the sake of everyone. You know that whole "by the people, for the people" thing? I'm much more inclined to support that than "by Warren Buffet, for Warren Buffet", but maybe I'm just crazy like that.

 

[montana mike]

You are too much of an idealist. )))

I deal with the federal government on a daily basis with my business and their incredible lack of responsiveness and understanding of the "real world" is why we are talking about this. They are not beholden to anyone anymore and they let me and others know this on a regular basis when we work with them. When was the last time any federal bureaucrat was held fully accountable for their action or inaction and fired? And this comment is meant to cross the aisle.

I agree with you that it would be nice if we had such accountability, but sadly we don't. While my tongue was firmly in my cheek with the examples I gave about the USPS' great "efficiency" and the IRS' "customer service," these were real life examples of how our "government" no longer serves the people, but rather how we are under their thumbs.

The EB mess is mostly a BNSF SNAFU and they should be held accountable for this by all of us-especially including their freight customers, since it is costing them huge amounts of money in delays. Hopefully the long term problem will be resolved when BNSF really understands the magnitude of their own incompetence and lack of vision.

 

[Guest]

So according to the Amtrak service alert the detours of train 7/27 from Fargo to Minot will end tomorrow (Feb. 28). I wonder how train 7 will do on the regular route through Grand Forks, it actually seems to have slightly better running times on the surrey cutoff.

 

[Ispolkom]

btw-I saw images and specs of the first 5000 new tanker cars BNSF will be taking delivery of this spring. A major step up in the safety and durability. Glad to see this.

:-(

BNSF owns tanker cars?

Yes, and they are buying more. There are many leased cars, but BNSF is also buying thousands as well. Double walls, overlapping welds with a high grade of steel that resists punctures. Heavier than many of the current models, but exceeding the latest govt safety standards (which many of their "grandfathered" cars fail to meet btw)

Ignorance fought! If they are buying reinforced tanker cars, no wonder they advocate the elimination of competing, unreinforced cars. Greater safety, greater leasing profits. Works out great for everyone except the leasing companies that own older tanker cars, and shippers who have to pay higher rents to lease BNSF's improved tanker cars.

 

[Karl1459]

The local Fox channel did a special report on oil tankers that cross the Twin Cities. They said a derailment in Wayzata could take out a main part of downtown, could even wipe out the police and fire departments. They also said that one railroad actually got approval to DOUBLE their speed in the urban part of the metro. Smart. One guy had his office within sight of the BNSF tracks and said he saw maintenance out there working constantly on the tracks.

Random question. No way to engineer fire suppression into the trains? Yeh, I know its an expense, but so is explosions. In Formula 1, they re-engineered fuel tanks decades ago to make fire less of a danger.

Fire supression in trains? Beyond a handheld extinguisher which may or may not be effective for an incipiant fire this is not practical from several standpoints. First understand the primary strategy is prevention. Safe tracks, safe equipment and safe operating rules.

When prevention fails you have a catastrophic event. There are too many variables to engineer a system that might be effective for all or even most catastrophic events, Its far more cost and safety effective to engineer prevention for an event that can be envisioned as predictable enough for effective supression. The second is containment. This is where the new double wall tank cars come in, preventing or slowing release of product in the event of a derailment and damage to the container.

Even then the scope of a ruptured car with a significant amount of product spilled and on fire is well beyond the capabilities of even major urban fire departments to extinguish. Even if you wanted to extinguish the fire you have the problems of cleaning up the resulting spill. Allowing the spill to burn off is often the prefered option even if the fire could be supressed as the costs and damages from water/supression foam contaminated product would be greater than fire damage.

Are there improvements needed. Sure. The need to be made and will be made on the prevention side.

 

[fairviewroad]

So according to the Amtrak service alert the detours of train 7/27 from Fargo to Minot will end tomorrow (Feb. 28).

I wouldn't count on it. That date seems to be based on a promise made by BNSF, which for reasons that are painfully obvious, should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

That said, Amtrak.com is selling that segment as a bus for March 1, but starting March 2nd it's a train again. So perhaps Amtrak has reason to feel confident that 7/27 will be back on its regular route starting March 2nd.

 

[Ispolkom]

So according to the Amtrak service alert the detours of train 7/27 from Fargo to Minot will end tomorrow (Feb. 28).

I wouldn't count on it. That date seems to be based on a promise made by BNSF, which for reasons that are painfully obvious, should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

That said, Amtrak.com is selling that segment as a bus for March 1, but starting March 2nd it's a train again. So perhaps Amtrak has reason to feel confident that 7/27 will be back on its regular route starting March 2nd.

For what it's worth, I bought tickets last week to travel MSP-MOT at Easter, and was warned of the directional running for April 17-19.

 

[Tumbleweed]

For what it is worth, and that's probably not much, the Conductor on 7 a few weeks ago stated to me there is talk of establishing a stop at New Rockford....perhaps there is also consideration being given to running both 7 & 8 via that route, given the traffic and maintenance taking place on the high line....

 

[tim49424]

the Conductor on 7 a few weeks ago stated to me there is talk of establishing a stop at New Rockford....perhaps there is also consideration being given to running both 7 & 8 via that route, given the traffic and maintenance taking place on the high line....

I'm wondering if this would be instead of, or in addition to, the talk of establishing a stop at Culbertson that was discussed on AU back in December. I can't remember which thread it was on so I found the article that was quoted.

http://www.krtv.com/news/culbertson-working-with-amtrak-for-empire-builder-stop/

 

[Ispolkom]

So according to the Amtrak service alert the detours of train 7/27 from Fargo to Minot will end tomorrow (Feb. 28). I wonder how train 7 will do on the regular route through Grand Forks, it actually seems to have slightly better running times on the surrey cutoff.

"Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said Monday that he’s sure the notice that expires Saturday will be immediately replaced with another one." Article here

When BNSF was claiming that it wanted to abandon the Devils Lake subdivision, there was talk about a station at New Rockford, but I haven't heard anything since then.

 

[montana mike]

As this thread suggests---the EB Mess.............I note three of the EB's solidly behind by over 5 hours today again. Anyone contemplating traveling this route for the foreseeable future must understand they should expect at least a 4 hour delay in arriving at many destinations (especially after the EBs have run thru MT and ND) and there will be days where the EB pulls into CHI twice that late. Just the nature of the beast now.

 

[fairviewroad]

"Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said Monday that he’s sure the notice that expires Saturday will be immediately replaced with another one." Article here

To the extent that delays along the EB route will surely continue into the foreseeable future, then extending the advisory is logical. But

an advisory about delays does not necessarily equate to an advisory about directional running. Amtrak's issued an EB advisory in the

past when directional running was not in place. The directional running is really just a small part of the whole EB mess.

One bit of good news: When the directional running started, Amtrak pulled all ticket sales on 7/27 to/from Grand Forks, Devils Lake

and Rugby. The bus was only available to previously ticketed passengers, effectively making round-trip travel impossible to those

three communities. More recently, however, Amtrak has added back the option to buy tickets to/from those three cities on 7/27. It

shows up as Thruway bus 1007.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Hmmmm....if a scheduled thruway bus is established, that may be an indicator that there actually is some consideration for a routing thru New Rockford for both 7 & 8....

 

[RRUserious]

I'm always a big supporter of prevention. If it can be effective, it can be very very cheap compared to the alternatives. But what are the parameters of effectiveness. It seems a little bit like pie in the sky. A matter of "look, we're doing something". No promises at all are implied.