EB mess

[CHamilton]

Train 8(20) sat outside Leavenworth for a couple of hours, and got to Wenatchee just over four hours late. Not arrived in Spokane yet.

 

[fairviewroad]

In a rare bit of good news, 7 arrived in SEA just 21 minutes late today, and 27 didn't do much worse, arriving in PDX 67 minutes late.

However, that's not likely to repeat itself anytime soon, based on the positions of the Builders currently on the loose.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

What is there to stop BNSF from allowing this situation to go on indefinitely or even get worse to the point that Amtrak has to cancel the EB on a regular basis? Anything?

At some point, Amtrak would probably end up taking them to court. We're not there...not even close...but I could see Amtrak going to court for a breach of contract.

If several months of this nonsense isn't even close then I guess we're talking years from now?

 

[Tumbleweed]

What is there to stop BNSF from allowing this situation to go on indefinitely or even get worse to the point that Amtrak has to cancel the EB on a regular basis? Anything?

At some point, Amtrak would probably end up taking them to court. We're not there...not even close...but I could see Amtrak going to court for a breach of contract.

If several months of this nonsense isn't even close then I guess we're talking years from now?

If BNSF is paying penalties for delaying them, AMTRAK probably wouldn't have much luck with a lawsuit as long as BNSF is fulfilling the contract by paying the penalties...

 

[George Harris]

The on-line delays may belong to BNSF, but for getting the train out on time, Amtrak needs to look in the mirror to find the culprit. If it means getting their hands on an additional trainset and getting extra crews, again, that is their business, not that of BNSF. They can hardly claim by now that the weather and high volume of trains on the line are catching them by surprise.

If BNSF can show they are making a reasonable effort to provide for the train, a lawsuit would simply be a waste of time and money. Knowing what I see of them running up and down the Central Valley, I would expect they can show they are doing that, and more likely show that they are going the second mile to try to make it run right.

 

[Ispolkom]

If BNSF can show they are making a reasonable effort to provide for the train, a lawsuit would simply be a waste of time and money. Knowing what I see of them running up and down the Central Valley, I would expect they can show they are doing that, and more likely show that they are going the second mile to try to make it run right.

That's my thought. It isn't as though BNSF hot shot freights are blasting through on time, and Amtrak is left in a siding. I'd be surprised if BNSF can't show that they are making a good faith effort, and that all traffic is delayed. Not that I know what the terms of the contract are, of course.

WRT not spending more money earlier, I'd say that BNSF had reason to be skeptical of Baaken oil loads. Shippers apparently weren't willing to put their money where their claims of loads were. In this article, we find that "Two other North Dakota pipeline projects have fallen apart because shippers wouldn’t commit." Sure, they were telling BNSF that the loads would be there, but not willing to pony up money.

Not that this makes it any more pleasant to be late into Minot to visit my ailing mother, of course.

 

[Nathanael]

If several months of this nonsense isn't even close then I guess we're talking years from now?

How long did it take before Amtrak went after CN, which was pulling blatant and obvious stunts to disadvantage Amtrak, including passing slow same-direction bulk freights in front of Amtrak while putting Amtrak in a siding? I think it was about 10 years before Amtrak filed complaints?

Before that, how long did it take Amtrak to go after UP for similar stunts? Definitely years.

BNSF seems to be making much more of an effort than in either of those cases.

 

[tim49424]

Looks like both #7 and #8 have had service disruptions declared out west....what happened?

 

[RalphCT]

Today's 7 (2/23) arrived in Minot about 2-3 hours late and left almost 6 1/2 hours late according to Amtrak.

8 arrived late in Havre and as of now there's no departure info.

Both trains show service disruption. Not sure what happened.

I'm presently in Columbus 2/23) waiting for 7 which arrived in MKE early.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[tim49424]

I'm presently in Columbus 2/23) waiting for 7 which arrived in MKE early.

Looks like you guys are doing pretty well....a rare on-time departure from CHI. Good luck the rest of the way!

 

[tim49424]

Looks like both #7 and #8 have had service disruptions declared out west....what happened?

Just found out, a BNSF derailment in Montana.

 

[RalphCT]

10 cars of a BBSF train derailed near Saco Montana. No injuries. Not sure how long the line will be impacted.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[RalphCT]

KRTV in Great Falls, MT reports the train derailed at 8:45 Sunday morning and was carrying autos. No word on the cause or how long the cleanup will take.

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[yarrow]

is what seem to be quite a few derailments on the hi-line lately a function of increased traffic, deteriorating infrastructure or is it not actually greater than usual?

 

[Nathanael]

is what seem to be quite a few derailments on the hi-line lately a function of increased traffic, deteriorating infrastructure or is it not actually greater than usual?

By all accounts, some increased traffic and some deteriorating infrastructure; the rate really is somewhat greater than usual. Apparently BNSF has been a little light on maintenance in the last couple of years, and the unusually severe weather deteriorates the infrastructure faster than normal, and there's been vastly increased traffic which also wears out the infrastructure faster. Derailments cost a lot of money and a lot of reputation, so you can expect BNSF will try to address the deterioration ASAP, though it's hard to do very much until the ground melts out.

 

[anir dendroica]

is what seem to be quite a few derailments on the hi-line lately a function of increased traffic, deteriorating infrastructure or is it not actually greater than usual?

By all accounts, some increased traffic and some deteriorating infrastructure; the rate really is somewhat greater than usual. Apparently BNSF has been a little light on maintenance in the last couple of years, and the unusually severe weather deteriorates the infrastructure faster than normal, and there's been vastly increased traffic which also wears out the infrastructure faster. Derailments cost a lot of money and a lot of reputation, so you can expect BNSF will try to address the deterioration ASAP, though it's hard to do very much until the ground melts out.

BNSF has been very heavy on maintenance in Montana for the last two summers at least; hence all of the summer delays. They may have been neglecting maintenance prior to that point, as they are still playing catch-up to some degree.

 

[montana mike]

Never a dull moment on the Hi-Line! I may be wrong, but I don't think that specific area has been "improved" lately. Most of the work has been done further to the east. The trackage around Malta, MT is still a wee bit on the bumpy side. But in either case I think it is indeed an all of the above situation-very cold temps and more traffic, which means more maintenance is needed and the likelihood of a derailment naturally goes up.

 

[mkeroad]

I have a ticket for the whole run in a couple weeks. Am I wrong to think if the percentage of freight derailments is way up that it's only a matter of time before a passenger train hurts a lot of people

What are the consequences for such an event?

Just the thought of being in coach for 16 extra hours and having my wife drive an hour at 4am instead of at 1pm to pick me up is enough to take a different route

 

[montana mike]

Overall rail travel is still safer than driving. The derailments are a concern, but can be greatly minimized by proper maintenance and due diligence by both Amtrak and BNSF. The delays are caused by many things. This week is a mess partly due to the latest derailment (although BNSF was able to quickly fix that one), both Empire Builders that were effected were well over 12 hours late at their final destinations. The long term, chronic delays are indeed being caused by too much traffic trying to fit into not enough trackage. That is not going to disappear soon. It should get a a little better as winter releases its grip on the Hi-Line (thus eliminating all of the ills that are caused by the bitterly cold temps and snow), but then construction and flood season starts, which add more challenges to the mix.

The trip on the EB's is a special one, seeing a beautiful and special part of America from ground level instead of 35,000 feet. Hopefully, someday it will become more reliable and thus more enjoyable. I would just try to build into your personal schedule some extra time for whatever connections you may need.

 

[mkeroad]

MT, I've decided to do just that. It would be a mess to change my plans now because this is on a rail pass and I have all the big segments already. I've always wanted to take the EB and you have talked me back into it. I am retired and maybe my wife will miss me enough to take the drive whenever?

 

[andersone]

The EB has a special place in my hear, one of the reasons I relish the opportunity to ride it to Glacier this summer after a long hiatus. There is something about the Mighty M then all that flat,,, then the stark beauty of the Rockies but I shall miss the leg to the coast. . Somebody had a grand plan when they laid all of this out for us to enjoy.

I have found, at least here, She Who Must Be Obeyed is often assuaged by a good meal and a well meant peck on the cheek.

 

[RRUserious]

Saw an interesting comment in the news. It was about the Keystone pipeline, the "solution" to Empire Builder miseries. They pointed out that recent years have been rather mild for hurricanes. I was thinking "Yeh, they'll complete the Keystone, oil will flow to the gulf, and then monster hurricanes will idle the ports and refineries. Climate change, it's all about ADVENTURE". :giggle:

 

[montana mike]

Whoever wrote that article is not familiar with the big picture. While the pipeline might help lessen the severity of the current mess, it is so much more than just the additional tanker cars. The Hi-Line has been the "poor step-child" of BNSF for years now. All of the BNSF employees I have spoken to in the past 5 years here in MT say the same thing-BNSF has been pushing and pushing more and more freight onto the system and not expanded the necessary infrastructure to properly handle the increases. I am not privy to internal correspondence, but it has been shared with me that the "railroad" people had alerted the corporate "suits" of this need at least three or four years ago to no avail. Now they are paying the price for their lack of good management and vision. Just observing the big increases in intermodal, coal, grain, vehicle and general freight going thru Whitefish is something to behold.

A footnote to the refineries in the Gulf region. I have spent time in both LA and TX and at some of these refineries over the past 10 years. Most are really not on or close to the actual Gulf of Mexico (anywhere from 10 to 50 miles inland). In low areas to be sure and flooding is always a possibility, but they were built to withstand major flooding (and still operate btw) and the cracking towers supposedly can withstand 150 mph winds, so it is more of a shipping issue than one with the refineries.

 

[RRUserious]

Well, let me cncede this. If the BNSF loses the gold mine of oil traffic, that hardly makes it more likely to renew its rail system. And since that is what determines what EB can do, Keystone isn't going to perform a miracle for EB. So long as we don't have any rails in that area purely for passengers, I'm afraid the foreseeable future is not good for Amtrak. And given the amazing resistance to even fixing our highways and bridges, how in the world will Amtrak get any love?

 

[montana mike]

One entity is a railroad, privately held and run. The other is our "government". Which one would you rather see running the show? I need not say more.

I agree with RRU, any improvements for the EB's will be purely because BNSF MUST make things better for their freight customers. btw-I saw images and specs of the first 5000 new tanker cars BNSF will be taking delivery of this spring. A major step up in the safety and durability. Glad to see this.

:-(