Empire Builder discussion 2023 Q4 - 2024

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I'm curious. When the EB builder or any of the other LD trains is rerouted such as this was, does another engineer need to ride along or does the original engineer know the alternate routes as well?
Yes. Normally the host railroad will provide an Engineer to accompany the Amtrak Engineer in the cab. Sometimes the host railroad also may provide a locomotive if any special PTC interfaces are required on the route that is peculiar to the host railroad and not available on an Amtrak loco.
 
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I'm curious. When the EB builder or any of the other LD trains is rerouted such as this was, does another engineer need to ride along or does the original engineer know the alternate routes as well?
Crews are qualified on a few detours that are relatively common, but those are pretty uncommon. The only one that comes to mind is I understand Amtrak crews may maintain qualification on the former SP between Roseville, CA and Marysville, CA in addition to the Starlight's normal route between Sacramento and Marysville on the former WP.

Also certainly for this one through Willmar a BNSF pilot engineer qualified on the route was required.
 
"Has anyone been on the Builder #28 out of Portland recently? I can't find the 28 dinner menu on Amtrak's website any more. What were the choices, and are they any good?"

Thanks for asking that question and I would be interested in the current situation as well. Based on my limited experience as a sleeping car passenger on the Portland section (breakfast only) I would certainly be tempted to carry aboard No. 28 a hearty sandwich and treat some or all of the Amtrak fare as sort of a dessert.
I'm booked in the 2830 sleeper Portland to Sandpoint (0220, oh my!) EB in October, and I plan to hit a deli for some food to take onboard. Not counting on Amtrak much. A couple of days later I get back on at Sandpoint into the 0831 (0220, oh my!) for the rest of the trip back to Chicago, and will hopefully wake up to a traditional breakfast in the diner. This is part of a longer trip (over 10,000 miles/ 24 days) which I will report on in the trip reports.
 
What site is this where you're pulling the info? I'd love to follow this on my trip in September.
When you're on the train usually Amtrak will send you the same alerts shown in the photo, the notices that are about your train.
 
Moorhead, MN to Wahpeton, ND - BNSF Moorhead Subdivision
Wahpeton, ND to Breckenridge, MN - Red River Valley & Western First Subdivision
Breckenridge, MN to Willmar, MN - BNSF Morris Subdivision
Willmar, MN to Minneapolis, MN - BNSF Wayzata Subdivision
The stations that were bypassed - St. Cloud - Staples - Detroit Lakes
The BNSF Willmar sub was used for the reroute rejoining the original routing at Fargo
 
EB’s regular route is the BNSF ex-GN Northern Transcon.
The Amtrak Empire Builder hasn’t used its full former pre-Amtrak regular route since Amtrak took it over.
The biggest change was the move to the former Milwaukee Road between Chicago and St. Paul, but other changes were the mentioned re-routes between Minneapolis and Fargo, as well as between Spokane and Seattle for a period (now back), plus one more…between Fargo and Minot originally via the Cutoff instead of Grand Forks.

The Empire Builder is just one of many Amtrak trains that have had some alterations in its route from its Amtrak beginning. Maybe discuss those in another thread?
 
I'm booked in the 2830 sleeper Portland to Sandpoint (0220, oh my!) EB in October, and I plan to hit a deli for some food to take onboard. Not counting on Amtrak much. A couple of days later I get back on at Sandpoint into the 0831 (0220, oh my!) for the rest of the trip back to Chicago, and will hopefully wake up to a traditional breakfast in the diner. This is part of a longer trip (over 10,000 miles/ 24 days) which I will report on in the trip reports.
The Portland section of the Empire Builder serves a cold dinner to sleeper passengers leaving from Portland. I've heard that it's supposed to be actually pretty good, so anything from a deli might not be much better. For the rest of the trip to Chicago, the Builder has traditional dining in the dining car, so you should be fine.
 
The Portland section of the Empire Builder serves a cold dinner to sleeper passengers leaving from Portland. I've heard that it's supposed to be actually pretty good, so anything from a deli might not be much better.
My experience earlier this month is that it’s serviceable if you get something you’re alright with, but I was glad I had something more substantial at Deschutes before getting on the train.
 
The Portland section of the Empire Builder serves a cold dinner to sleeper passengers leaving from Portland. I've heard that it's supposed to be actually pretty good, so anything from a deli might not be much better. For the rest of the trip to Chicago, the Builder has traditional dining in the dining car, so you should be fine.
Amtrak changed Suppliers for the Boxed Meals in Portland a few years back, and they are no longer very good.( the Breakfast loaded in Spokane has never been anything to write Home about)

Portland has plenty of good places to eat, so having a late Lunch/early Supper is a good idea.
 
To me it's very encouraging that this particular Empire Builder was detoured. I think Amtrak has become far too quick to switch to buses when things to wrong, though admittedly the freight railroads have been short of personnel and hard-put to provide pilots since the pandemic.
It is also great that existing alternate routes are still available - - -
There once were 4 different ways to travel between MSP and Chicago town - - -
And more than 3 ways to travel from MSP to the Pacific Northwest - - -
Bustituition disrupts the whole train -
Skipping bypassing a few cities only affects those cities bypassed -
 
The Portland section of the Empire Builder serves a cold dinner to sleeper passengers leaving from Portland. I've heard that it's supposed to be actually pretty good, so anything from a deli might not be much better. For the rest of the trip to Chicago, the Builder has traditional dining in the dining car, so you should be fine.
I can't compare the cold dinner to cold dinners in the past, but when we took the Portland Builder earlier this summer, we both had the steak salad and found it more than acceptable. The steak was cooked medium, and nicely trimmed and tender. The only issue I had was that the lettuce was cut into rather large pieces, and the plastic cutlery used with it was not quite up to cutting it into bite-sized bits. But because we were eating in our room, we had our own, good quality wine to drink with the dinner--quite civilized!
 
It is also great that existing alternate routes are still available - - -
There once were 4 different ways to travel between MSP and Chicago town - - -
And more than 3 ways to travel from MSP to the Pacific Northwest - - -
Bustituition disrupts the whole train -
Skipping bypassing a few cities only affects those cities bypassed -
We still have two routes between Spokane and Seattle, not counting the long way around through Vancouver, Washington. But I believe the ex-NP Stampede Pass route is still without block signaling except to indicate switch positions at CTC sidings. It also doesn't have PTC. I'm not sure what the status of the Willmar line is in that regard. I understand BNSF finally restored the Stampede Tunnel's ventilation system, with was designed into the Stampede Pass reopening in 1996 but not completed at the time. I've not seen them detour an Empire Builder over Stampede in many years.
 
We still have two routes between Spokane and Seattle, not counting the long way around through Vancouver, Washington. But I believe the ex-NP Stampede Pass route is still without block signaling except to indicate switch positions at CTC sidings. It also doesn't have PTC. I'm not sure what the status of the Willmar line is in that regard. I understand BNSF finally restored the Stampede Tunnel's ventilation system, with was designed into the Stampede Pass reopening in 1996 but not completed at the time. I've not seen them detour an Empire Builder over Stampede in many years.
They decommissioned the ABS over Stampede when they rebuilt it and put it back into service. Lack of wayside signals doesn't prevent revenue passenger movements, it just restricts passenger speed to 59 mph.

PTC is another issue, there is probably enough traffic to require PTC to host passenger movements.
 
I think it's something like eight trains a day on Stampede Pass, mostly eastbound coal and oil empties that came west on the old SP&S. When Stampede was reopened, I think BNSF figured they could run 11 or 12 trains-a-day on it before block signaling would be necessary.
 
I think it's something like eight trains a day on Stampede Pass, mostly eastbound coal and oil empties that came west on the old SP&S. When Stampede was reopened, I think BNSF figured they could run 11 or 12 trains-a-day on it before block signaling would be necessary.
Eight trains a day is more than enough to require PTC to host passenger trains on the line.

PTC would not be optional the way wayside signals are. It's mandatory. Since BNSF isn't running traffic that requires it, they could demand that Amtrak/WSDOT pay the entire cost of PTC in order to run passenger trains over the line. BTW, WSDOT isn't planning any cross state trains at this time, their planning is still concentrating on Seattle-Portland service.
 
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There was, but I believe that was not long after the BNSF merger. BNSF wanted to move the Empire Builder back to the Stampede Pass line to make more room for an intermodal rush that was expected. That's why the test train was run. But the intermodal rush never materialized. I understand WSDOT wishes that the Empire Builder had never been rerouted through Wenatchee in October of 1981. I agree. Political and ridership support for Amtrak was on the south line. But Washington voters made the mistake of retiring the aging Senator Warren Magnuson one term early in 1980 and after he was gone, Amtrak could do what it wanted, which was to serve its own operational convenience regardless of service, cost or revenue considerations. We suffer even more from that today with the current unrealistically-fast equipment turn in Seattle, which is once again failing as I write this. Magnuson would have stopped that. Unlike Amtrak, he understood our markets out here.

I hadn't notice the video when I wrote what I just wrote. But I don't remember anything about an Amtrak test train in 2011 All Aboard Washington would have heard about it, and it would have been vocally unhappy, as it was when it heard of the test train in about 1997 or 8. I wonder if this wasn't some other kind of Amtrak special move. That first test train was much shorter, by the way, three or four cars as I remember, with only one Superliner in the consist to make sure the tight clearances in Stampede Tunnel were still OK, as engineering information said they were. Some Amtrak people who were on that train told me they just rolled through the tunnel with no restrictions.
 
According to Trains News Wire, the Empire Builder will be losing its second Seattle coach August 1 "during the height of the summer tourism season."

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...pprpVMNQNZZ9n2A4hg_aem_34FeNj8Na8O9wP8WZdOxdg
I again state that Amtrak management is at fault for not getting ALL of the equipment in top notch status during Covid. Now we have small trains that are full, prices that are out of sight and overnight trains still not operating with full dining car service.
 
I again state that Amtrak management is at fault for not getting ALL of the equipment in top notch status during Covid. Now we have small trains that are full, prices that are out of sight and overnight trains still not operating with full dining car service.
Yikes-and we're taking the Empire Builder to WI Dells on the 7th.
 
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