Fare Buckets - and when do they increase/decrease?

[zephyr17]

All of this would make a lot more sense if there weren’t so many sleepers running empty. Demand is apparently not as high as Amtrak likes to think it is. Others in this thread have mentioned that it’s as if Amtrak wants sales to be poor with the end results being no sleepers in the future. I’m not sure what the purpose of that would be, other than cutting crew positions so you only have coach attendants and cafe car service, and I don’t know how much savings that would bring, but the only other explanation is that it’s in the hands of someone who failed that Econ 101 class you mention.

As I have said in other posts, there is some anecdotal evidence in posts here that Amtrak is using yield management techniques either incompetently or malevolently to drive off passengers. Also, I have said in other posts that I have no problem with yield management done properly even if results in fares I won't pay. If done incompetently or especially malevolently, I have a big problem with it.

Unfortunately, the evidence is anecdotal at this point and good yield management ought to result in a few rooms going out empty over time. I am usually inclined to give the benefit of the doubt in intentions, but Amtrak management's track record in recent years, ranging from flex dining to equipment management, invites skepticism at the very least. The COVID excuse being used for staffing and equipment issues is wearing very thin at this point.

 

[Sidney]

I mentioned in an earlier post I was on an EB two years ago from Chi to Pdx and all but two bedrooms remained empty the entire trip, As I have said isn’t some revenue better than no revenue?

Again,if Amtrak knows it is running empty sleepers on a train a day before,why can’t conductors sell them at low bucket on the train instead of going through the web site? Why can’t conductors announce to Coach pax there are empty sleepers on this trip and if you would like to purchase one…,

This seems so basic. Maybe I am missing something but in my years of riding I have noticed empty sleepers the entire trip.If I was in Coach I would jump at the chance as would so many other passengers.

 

[jis]

Maybe they should more aggressively present the bid upgrade thing. That already operates kinda outside the bucket system and there are some really good deal to be had. Additionally they could incorporate some of the paid upgrade techniques that are used by the airlines when the actual departure gets near.

I think it should not be done completely outside the compterized reservation system since that would be a formula for adding to the chaos that already exists because the current IT system does not have a "single source of truth" in near real time as it is. The airlines are able to do some of this stuff because their systems generally have that.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Pricing is all over the place.

Yesterday morning I purchased a one-way BAL-NOL roomette since I had a some vouchers to use. The price for the room was $612. A few hours later, I saw on the website that I could actually do NYP-NOL for around $30 less. So I switched the routing. More train time for less money. It seems like they just opened up one room at that lower fare, since now it’s back to the higher bucket.

 

[zephyr17]

Pricing is all over the place.

Yesterday morning I purchased a one-way BAL-NOL roomette since I had a some vouchers to use. The price for the room was $612. A few hours later, I saw on the website that I could actually do NYP-NOL for around $30 less. So I switched the routing. More train time for less money. It seems like they just opened up one room at that lower fare, since now it’s back to the higher bucket.

Yeah, the typically seem to allocate only one or two rooms to the lowest open bucket. So that doesn't sound at all unusual.

 

[IAlam]

Yeah, the typically seem to allocate only one or two rooms to the lowest open bucket. So that doesn't sound at all unusual.

If that's true how do we figure out when they come out? I'm looking as far out as the system lets me and the Cardinal is at the mid bucket and the LSL is at the high bucket.

 

[zephyr17]

If that's true how do we figure out when they come out? I'm looking as far out as the system lets me and the Cardinal is at the mid bucket and the LSL is at the high bucket.

View attachment 31981

You don't, pretty much. "As far out" as the system allows now tends to have inventory entirely allocated in the higher buckets. I am a bit surprised you found a mid-bucket at 11 months.

My guess is that if you run a dummy reservation with more than one or two rooms on that mid-bucket, you'll see a price jump.

Yield management is dynamic. Note I said lowest open bucket. They can reallocate at any time, although my own experience is they tend to do at 4-6 months, and may do it more later. When they do reallocate, they tend to put minimum inventory in the lowest bucket assigned inventory.

They do not routinely allocate inventory to low bucket when inventory is released for sale 11 months in advance as they did several years ago.

 

[IAlam]

You don't, pretty much. "As far out" as the system allows now tends to have inventory entirely allocated in the higher buckets. I am a bit surprised you found a mid-bucket at 11 months.

My guess is that if you run a dummy reservation with more than one or two rooms on that mid-bucket, you'll see a price jump.

Yield management is dynamic. Note I said lowest open bucket. They can reallocate at any time, although my own experience is they tend to do at 4-6 months, and may do it more later. When they do reallocate, they tend to put minimum inventory in the lowest bucket assigned inventory.

They do not routinely allocate inventory to low bucket when inventory is released for sale 11 months in advance as they did several years ago.

Welp at this point it's so tricky to get a low bucket fare it might as well be a profession.

It's too bad we don't have a Google trains to track prices.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Welp at this point it's so tricky to get a low bucket fare it might as well be a profession.

It's too bad we don't have a Google trains to track prices.

There is a site called rail for less that sort of does this. It is not the best (and it can take some time to load) but it does work...

https://railforless.us/
https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-interface-for-searching-amtrak-travel.84128/

 

[Sidney]

There is a site called rail for less that sort of does this. It is not the best (and it can take some time to load) but it does work...

https://railforless.us/
https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-interface-for-searching-amtrak-travel.84128/

I tried Rail for Less for a Mid May trip from Elizabethtown Pa to BWI. Came back with an $87 fare. I used senior discount and booked Elt -Phl for $27 and Phl-BWI for $14, considerably less.

 

[Trollopian]

There is a site called rail for less that sort of does this. It is not the best (and it can take some time to load) but it does work...

https://railforless.us/

Thanks, trimetbus, for this info about a successor to the late and much-mourned Amsnag!

I already tried the site and I have a newbie question: it automatically searches for the first departure of the day. Thus when I looked for "DC to Chicago" nonstop in early October it gave me a set of Capitol Limited fares. (All identical, for a $643 roomette anyway. Some days already unavailable.) But I want to try the Cardinal which I've never ridden. Is there a way to trick railforless.us into showing that?

 

[IAlam]

There is a site called rail for less that sort of does this. It is not the best (and it can take some time to load) but it does work...

https://railforless.us/
https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-interface-for-searching-amtrak-travel.84128/

It's a good tool and I'm grateful it exists but it's too minimal for how I search for trips. Often it's faster for me to use the site since I can look only 11 days or something from the start date. But usually, I'm spanning months at a time and I can't check every weekend for the next month on a whim.

 

[trimetbusfan]

It's a good tool and I'm grateful it exists but it's too minimal for how I search for trips. Often it's faster for me to use the site since I can look only 11 days or something from the start date. But usually, I'm spanning months at a time and I can't check every weekend for the next month on a whim.

Like I have said to others, I find the Amtrak app to be the best way to quickly check fares for multiple dates. Unlike the web version of the site, it does not limit the number of searches you can do at one time. This makes it very easy to cycle through several dates very fast.

I try not to book on the app, through, unless it small/relatively simple reservation. If it is a larger reservation I will use the website or call in.

 

[IAlam]

Like I have said to others, I find the Amtrak app to be the best way to quickly check fares for multiple dates. Unlike the web version of the site, it does not limit the number of searches you can do at one time. This makes it very easy to cycle through several dates very fast.

I try not to book on the app, through, unless it small/relatively simple reservation. If it is a larger reservation I will use the website or call in.

Now that you've mentioned it I've never had any issues with the app. But yeah aside from NER reservations I usually booked everything online. Dropping a couple hundred or a grand on apple pay seems odd to me.

 

[dlagrua]

I have no problem with a true bucket system. It seems to raise fare a bit but when we travel and see quite a few empty sleepers Amtrak could do better with the fare algorithim used on their system. IMO they would be better served by running a contrant comparison of sales related to the fares. They could set a date where they would want full capacity and then adjust the fares to meet that goal.

 

[Keith1951]

I have been watching prices everyday for October 6th & 7th, 2023 bedrooms from Chicago to LAX and Chicago to San Antonio for months and prices for either one has not changed from $2118 and $932. Does anyone know if these are the high bucket prices? If so I will wait a little longer to see if they drop.

 

[joelkfla]

I have been watching prices everyday for October 6th & 7th, 2023 bedrooms from Chicago to LAX and Chicago to San Antonio for months and prices for either one has not changed from $2118 and $932. Does anyone know if these are the high bucket prices? If so I will wait a little longer to see if they drop.

Don't know what you are looking at. Bedrooms on both trains are $1933 CHI to LAX on 10/6 on the web site. That's 2nd highest bucket.

Fares are in September are currently 2nd lowest bucket, so maybe give it another month.

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...coach-sleeper-fares-buckets.77062/post-995146

 

[Keith1951]

Don't know what you are looking at. Bedrooms on both trains are $1933 CHI to LAX on 10/6 on the web site. That's 2nd highest bucket.

Fares are in September are currently 2nd lowest bucket, so maybe give it another month.

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...coach-sleeper-fares-buckets.77062/post-995146

Can't do another month, our 20th anniversary is October 10th. And the prices are for two seniors in a bedroom not one. We're trying to get to LA for a cruise.

 

[niemi24s]

I believe the high bucket Bedroom for 1 adult between CHI and SAS is $1045 so the $932 you found is a bucket or so below high bucket.

As neither trip is high bucket, you could always book now (just to insure you get the date and accommodation you want) and if the fare drops later you can call AGR and have them MODIFY your reservation to the lower fare and get the difference refunded. I've done that about tree times.

And, because neither trip is high bucket, waiting could see the fare go to high bucket and stay there or the Bedroom you want get sold out.

P.S.: I do hope you're planning on getting to LAX the day before the cruise in case the train is really late.

 

[joelkfla]

Can't do another month, our 20th anniversary is October 10th. And the prices are for two seniors in a bedroom not one. We're trying to get to LA for a cruise.

Understood. What I meant by "give it another month" is that September fares have already dropped, so October fares might go down in about a month. It's all Amtrak voodoo; nobody knows for sure when fares might drop.

I suggest you check the fare for a single, full-fare adult so that you can compare it to the chart, and if it looks reasonable, then change the request to include the discount and the 2nd passenger before booking. When you look at the chart, make sure a newer one hasn't been posted later in the thread.

Buckets for a bedroom CHI to LAX are here on the chart:



ETA: As @niemi24s said while I was composing my reply, you could book at the current fare if you can swing it, and request a modification if fares drop. And as he also said, definitely do not book an arrival on the same day as your cruise boarding.

ETA2: Congrats on the 20 years!

 

[zephyr17]

Yeah, 2118 is the 1933 bucket adjusted for 2 seniors (1933 - 232 + (208.8 * 2)).

There are only 5 bedrooms in the current SWC consist (one standard sleeper and a transdorm, IIRC), although Amtrak may intend to add another sleeper for the summer/early Fall and released that inventory to the reservation system, which would make for 10 bedrooms. Of course, as we all have seen, inventory in the reservations system no longer assures actual cars in the consist. In any case, I'd check the inventory for your travel dates (using 1 adult/room to make it easy to check against the chart). If there are a a couple rooms available at that price and more in high (the price will jump for all requested rooms if your request exceeds the inventory in the initial bucket, IIRC) a bucket drop within about a month or so may be possible or even likely. If there is only, say, like one in the 1933 bucket and one or two in high bucket, then I'd say chances of a bucket drop go down considerably, like to zero or near zero.

If you can afford it, I'd follow @niemi24s' and @joelkfla's advice to book and then monitor for a fare drop. I also completely agree with their advice to arrrive in LA at least one day before your cruise.

 

[Keith1951]

Understand. What I meant by "give it another month" is that September fares have already dropped, so October fares might go down in about a month. It's all Amtrak voodoo; nobody knows for sure when fares might drop.

I suggest you check the fare for a single, full-fare adult so that you can compare it to the chart, and if it looks reasonable, then change the request to include the discount and the 2nd passenger before booking. When you look at the chart, make sure a newer one hasn't been posted later in the thread.

Buckets for a bedroom CHI to LAX are here on the chart:
View attachment 32035


ETA: As @niemi24s said while I was composing my reply, you could book at the current fare if you can swing it, and request a modification if fares drop. And as he also said, definitely do not book an arrival on the same day as your cruise boarding.

Thanks for that info. I will watch the fares and see if they go down in a month or two.

 

[Keith1951]

Yeah, 2118 is the 1933 bucket adjusted for 2 seniors (1933 - 232 + (208.8 * 2)).

There are only 5 bedrooms in the current SWC consist (one standard sleeper and a transdorm, IIRC), although Amtrak may intend to add another sleeper for the summer/early Fall and released that inventory to the reservation system, which would make for 10 bedrooms. Of course, as we all have seen, inventory in the reservations system no longer assures actual cars in the consist. In any case, I'd check the inventory for your travel dates (using 1 adult/room to make it easy to check against the chart). If there are a a couple rooms available at that price and more in high (the price will jump for all requested rooms if your request exceeds the inventory in the initial bucket, IIRC) a bucket drop within about a month or so may be possible or even likely. If there is only, say, like one in the 1933 bucket and one or two in high bucket, then I'd say chances of a bucket drop go down considerably, like to zero or near zero.

If you can afford it, I'd follow @niemi24s' and @joelkfla's advice to book and then monitor for a fare drop. I also completely agree with their advice to arrrive in LA at least one day before your cruise.

Thanks. I will watch for a bucket drop in a month or two. Also, I never arrive the day of my cruise, I know trains can be very late. I always get a hotel overnight to make sure I can make the connect.

I believe the high bucket Bedroom for 1 adult between CHI and SAS is $1045 so the $932 you found is a bucket or so below high bucket.

As neither trip is high bucket, you could always book now (just to insure you get the date and accommodation you want) and if the fare drops later you can call AGR and have them MODIFY your reservation to the lower fare and get the difference refunded. I've done that about tree times.

And, because neither trip is high bucket, waiting could see the fare go to high bucket and stay there or the Bedroom you want get sold out.

P.S.: I do hope you're planning on getting to LAX the day before the cruise in case the train is really late.

Yes, Im planning to arrive a day early and stay overnight in a hotel. Thanks.

 

[Sidney]

Can't do another month, our 20th anniversary is October 10th. And the prices are for two seniors in a bedroom not one. We're trying to get to LA for a cruise.

The cruise is probably cheaper than the Amtrak bedroom

 

[Keith1951]

Oh, you got that right. But travelling in a bedroom with Amtrak makes it 2 vacations in one, that how I look at it.