FINE DINING ON AMTRAK

[ThayerATM]

In September we're going to be taking the Lake Shore Limited from Rochester NY (ROC) to Chicago, then takaing the Empire Builder from Chicago (CHI) to Seattle WA (SEA). After a couple of days in SEA we'll be getting on the Coast Starlight south to Emeryville (EMY). We'll overnight in EMY, then take the California Zephyr back to CHI, and then the LSL back to ROC. We will be riding in a bedroom all the way, so the meals will be included.

From what I've read on this forum, the dining car menu will stay pretty much the same throughout the trip. Not many "local foods," as on the CONO. How exciting is that?

We're already quite familiar with the dining car layout and menu on the LSL. What can we expect to be significantly different on any of the other three trains? Is it all about car layout? What's the big difference with "full service" dining that's said to be used on the Empire Builder, and dining on the California Zephyr? Dining on the Coast Starlight appears to be just a matter of "where" one chooses to eat.

 

[RRrich]

I have had "fine dining" and I have dined on Amtrak (including the LSL but not the EB) - two different things. I suggest you ignore all "fine dining" ideas - go into the dining car - or what ever they call it, with the idea that you will get a pleasent, enjoyable meal.

It ain't "fine dining" but it ain't bad.

 

[ThayerATM]

I have had "fine dining" and I have dined on Amtrak (including the LSL but not the EB) - two different things. I suggest you ignore all "fine dining" ideas - go into the dining car - or what ever they call it, with the idea that you will get a pleasent, enjoyable meal.
It ain't "fine dining" but it ain't bad.

That was my sarcasm showing through. I've been on the LSL enough to not expect "fine dining," but as you say, it's not bad, at all. I'm just wondering if there's any signifacant difference between "full service" dining, as touted about the Empire Builder, or if it's just a matter of car layout and tableware. I suspect it's all a matter of "spin."

 

[wayman]

I have had "fine dining" and I have dined on Amtrak (including the LSL but not the EB) - two different things. I suggest you ignore all "fine dining" ideas - go into the dining car - or what ever they call it, with the idea that you will get a pleasent, enjoyable meal.
It ain't "fine dining" but it ain't bad.

That was my sarcasm showing through. I've been on the LSL enough to not expect "fine dining," but as you say, it's not bad, at all. I'm just wondering if there's any signifacant difference between "full service" dining, as touted about the Empire Builder, or if it's just a matter of car layout and tableware. I suspect it's all a matter of "spin."

There's a tremendous difference. The LSL no longer has a dining car with a kitchen, just a diner lite with a heating station; nothing is prepared on board, and there is only a single chef and a single server. The EB, CS, and CZ all have full dining cars with kitchens. The menu is totally different from the LSL's, in that it's the dining car menu instead of the diner lite menu. There's more variety, and more food preparation takes place on the train. On the CS and CZ, a chef works in the kitchen, a lead service attendant functions as a host and head waiter, and one or two servers wait and bus tables; on the EB, there is also a sous chef/dishwasher in the kitchen, enabling a bit more on-board cooking. On all three of these trains you will get to order entrees like steak cooked to order, fish filets, and game hens. On the EB there is china instead of plasticware since they have an extra hand in the kitchen. And on the CS, sleeping car passengers have access to both the dining car and the parlour car and can choose to take their meals in either. The parlour car has a slightly different unique menu.

Flat-iron steak dinner entree:



Scrambled eggs and hash browns breakfast (with Empire Builder china):



My Flickr set of Amtrak dining car and meal photos

 

[the_traveler]

I like the EB, because they use REAL plates and REAL mugs - not the plastic stuff - and they cook more food onboard (but it still the normal SDS menu ). I like the CS for the meals in the PPC - just as a change in the menu instead of the same thing over and over and ...! But the PPC is a great place to hang out anyways.

And the wine tasting is free on the EB, but costs $5 on the CS!

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Wayman, the food must be good, that's a "20,000 calories consumed" celebration, yes?

 

[wayman]

Wayman, the food must be good, that's a "20,000 calories consumed" celebration, yes?

Well, I do like the food, it's true. But that was my 20,000 miles on Amtrak celebration

... and that reminded me that it's been a while since I've updated my lifetime mileage spreadsheet. Looks like I just passed 30,000 on my way to Boston last Friday!

 

[guestlsa]

I have had "fine dining" and I have dined on Amtrak (including the LSL but not the EB) - two different things. I suggest you ignore all "fine dining" ideas - go into the dining car - or what ever they call it, with the idea that you will get a pleasent, enjoyable meal.
It ain't "fine dining" but it ain't bad.

That was my sarcasm showing through. I've been on the LSL enough to not expect "fine dining," but as you say, it's not bad, at all. I'm just wondering if there's any signifacant difference between "full service" dining, as touted about the Empire Builder, or if it's just a matter of car layout and tableware. I suspect it's all a matter of "spin."

There's a tremendous difference. The LSL no longer has a dining car with a kitchen, just a diner lite with a heating station; nothing is prepared on board, and there is only a single chef and a single server. The EB, CS, and CZ all have full dining cars with kitchens. The menu is totally different from the LSL's, in that it's the dining car menu instead of the diner lite menu. There's more variety, and more food preparation takes place on the train. On the CS and CZ, a chef works in the kitchen, a lead service attendant functions as a host and head waiter, and one or two servers wait and bus tables; on the EB, there is also a sous chef/dishwasher in the kitchen, enabling a bit more on-board cooking. On all three of these trains you will get to order entrees like steak cooked to order, fish filets, and game hens. On the EB there is china instead of plasticware since they have an extra hand in the kitchen. And on the CS, sleeping car passengers have access to both the dining car and the parlour car and can choose to take their meals in either. The parlour car has a slightly different unique menu.

Flat-iron steak dinner entree:



Scrambled eggs and hash browns breakfast (with Empire Builder china):



My Flickr set of Amtrak dining car and meal photos

lsl now has 2 servers

 

[AlanB]

I have had "fine dining" and I have dined on Amtrak (including the LSL but not the EB) - two different things. I suggest you ignore all "fine dining" ideas - go into the dining car - or what ever they call it, with the idea that you will get a pleasent, enjoyable meal.
It ain't "fine dining" but it ain't bad.

That was my sarcasm showing through. I've been on the LSL enough to not expect "fine dining," but as you say, it's not bad, at all. I'm just wondering if there's any signifacant difference between "full service" dining, as touted about the Empire Builder, or if it's just a matter of car layout and tableware. I suspect it's all a matter of "spin."

There's a tremendous difference. The LSL no longer has a dining car with a kitchen, just a diner lite with a heating station; nothing is prepared on board, and there is only a single chef and a single server. The EB, CS, and CZ all have full dining cars with kitchens. The menu is totally different from the LSL's, in that it's the dining car menu instead of the diner lite menu. There's more variety, and more food preparation takes place on the train. On the CS and CZ, a chef works in the kitchen, a lead service attendant functions as a host and head waiter, and one or two servers wait and bus tables; on the EB, there is also a sous chef/dishwasher in the kitchen, enabling a bit more on-board cooking. On all three of these trains you will get to order entrees like steak cooked to order, fish filets, and game hens. On the EB there is china instead of plasticware since they have an extra hand in the kitchen. And on the CS, sleeping car passengers have access to both the dining car and the parlour car and can choose to take their meals in either. The parlour car has a slightly different unique menu.

lsl now has 2 servers

Actually every time I've taken the LSL in the past two years, it's had two SA's. My most recent trip was last October, and prior to that I was on it in July.

 

[RailFanLNK]

My girlfriend and I and her two daughters were on the LSL summer of 2008. The menu had silver duct tape over 90% of the items that "used" (?) to be offered. I much preferred the selection on the SWC and CZ. The menu had so much duct tape on it, I thought Red Green might appear in the diner.

I for one, can eat the same thing day in and day out. Daily I eat two Lean Pockets for lunch. Been eating them 5 days a week now for 2 years. So eating the same thing over and over on a train doesn't bother me one lick. Being grateful that I have a decent reservation and decent service over a huge selection is what I feel good about.

 

[Walt]

From what I've read on this forum, the dining car menu will stay pretty much the same throughout the trip. Not many "local foods," as on the CONO. How exciting is that?

Actually, I find that consistency comforting. I like predictability. I would find it more troubling if I had to worry that the only menu items for dinner that night might be either Sweat Breads or Liver with Turnips.

While one might not like McD's, at least one knows for sure what will be on the menu before they enter.

In all my years riding on Amtrak, I have never had a bad meal. Sometimes service is a bit slow, but then again, what's my rush? Just to get back to my roomette? Besides, slower service gives me more time to chat with my new table-mates.

My only complaint, if that is even the right word, is that I am STUFFED by the time I reach my destination. I am not use to eating all that much food, but somehow feel obligated to because I already paid for it.

 

[Larry H.]

My girlfriend and I and her two daughters were on the LSL summer of 2007. The menu had silver duct tape over 90% of the items that "used" (?) to be offered. I much preferred the selection on the SWC and CZ. The menu had so much duct tape on it, I thought Red Green might appear in the diner.
I for one, can eat the same thing day in and day out. Daily I eat two Lean Pockets for lunch. Been eating them 5 days a week now for 2 years. So eating the same thing over and over on a train doesn't bother me one lick. Being grateful that I have a decent reservation and decent service over a huge selection is what I feel good about.

Duct Tape! That must be what is in that big pile of boxes where the center table used to be on one end? Or maybe it came from the banging doors in the viewliner sleepers? Or maybe it was used to try and stop the water leak over the vestibules? Well then too it could have been holding the curtains closed in the roomettes where the velco is absent? Maybe it was being used to hold the lights from falling out of the sockets in the reading lamps?

Gee Amtrak must be making the duct Tape makers rich.

In reality, on the subject of the food, I actually found the entries on the Lake Shore to be a bit more tasty than the experience we had going east on the Capitol. The Empire Builder when we rode it still had most on board preparation, but shortly after I believe they cut that back also. On place where someone at Amtrak actually did rather well is in the replacement vinyl china. A quick glance at it gives the appearance of china which at least to some degree helps to keep it from looking totally cheesy. Plus the food most of the time is a few notches higher than the first attempt to go "Microwave" which was totally uneatable. At least now you won't starve and sometimes you can be quite pleased, but fine dining, Well??????

 

[RailFanLNK]

Our food wasn't bad on the LSL, just absolutely no choice, it was either a burger or a burger! :lol: They only had one dessert and it was vanilla ice cream. My girlfriend's teenage daughter quietly asked the LSA, "do you have any chocolate syrup?" And the LSA replied, "yes we do!" He came back and made chocolate swirls with the Hersheys and dressed up a bland carton of ice cream and made it really cool. He also "showed off" a little bit and made the whole thing fun for all of us! He got a bigger tip because of that!

Al

 

[wayman]

Our food wasn't bad on the LSL, just absolutely no choice, it was either a burger or a burger! :lol: They only had one dessert and it was vanilla ice cream. My girlfriend's teenage daughter quietly asked the LSA, "do you have any chocolate syrup?" And the LSA replied, "yes we do!" He came back and make chocolate swirls with the Hersheys and dressed up a bland carton of ice cream and made it really cool. He also "showed off" a little bit and made the whole thing fun for all of us! He got a bigger tip because of that!

That's great! Every now and then you get a really super LSA who goes the extra mile like that. Michael on the Cardinal's diner lite had a similar super-friendly, can-do approach to his work. And especially with a diner lite, the service can really make or break the dining experience.

 

[Walt]

Our food wasn't bad on the LSL, just absolutely no choice, it was either a burger or a burger! :lol: They only had one dessert and it was vanilla ice cream.

Like their burgers, and their Häagen-Dazs vanilla ice cream!

That's probably why I am such a happy dining car customer.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Our food wasn't bad on the LSL, just absolutely no choice, it was either a burger or a burger! :lol: They only had one dessert and it was vanilla ice cream.

Like their burgers, and their Häagen-Dazs vanilla ice cream!

That's probably why I am such a happy dining car customer.

On the CL the LSA always puts my ice cream in their strawberry syrup from the breakfast service to make me a sundae!

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

A large part of "Fine" dining is the location and services. There are few restaurants that move locations while dining, and so far I have always had great service.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I never thought this topic would apply to me... but I'll be taking the LSL myself.

I feel like I have been spoiled by the CL diner-ish-thingy.

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

On the CARDINAL dinette, about two or three years ago, I experienced what I would consider "fine dining" service from some of the staff, even with that train's plastic plates, etc. On some trains, one might experience worse service.

Around five or six years ago, I found AMTRAK dining service to be at least adequate, but usually with a touch of class, on the SILVER PALM, SILVER STAR and on the EMPIRE BUILDER as late as about two or three years ago. I considered most of their dining staff to be exceptional. They seem to usually try to make the experience like "fine dining", even if it might be just regular restaurant or even fast food-like quality.

I think the railroads always attempted to at least give that impression. True "fine dining" might entail an extra fare on private cars.

 

[Konrad]

On the CARDINAL dinette, about two or three years ago, I experienced what I would consider "fine dining" service from some of the staff, even with that train's plastic plates, etc. On some trains, one might experience worse service.
Around five or six years ago, I found AMTRAK dining service to be at least adequate, but usually with a touch of class, on the SILVER PALM, SILVER STAR and on the EMPIRE BUILDER as late as about two or three years ago. I considered most of their dining staff to be exceptional. They seem to usually try to make the experience like "fine dining", even if it might be just regular restaurant or even fast food-like quality.

I think the railroads always attempted to at least give that impression. True "fine dining" might entail an extra fare on private cars.

Service is generally 'fine'. Dining approaches 'puke'.

Fine dining on scheduled trains does not exist in the USA! :angry:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

On the CARDINAL dinette, about two or three years ago, I experienced what I would consider "fine dining" service from some of the staff, even with that train's plastic plates, etc. On some trains, one might experience worse service.
Around five or six years ago, I found AMTRAK dining service to be at least adequate, but usually with a touch of class, on the SILVER PALM, SILVER STAR and on the EMPIRE BUILDER as late as about two or three years ago. I considered most of their dining staff to be exceptional. They seem to usually try to make the experience like "fine dining", even if it might be just regular restaurant or even fast food-like quality.

I think the railroads always attempted to at least give that impression. True "fine dining" might entail an extra fare on private cars.

Service is generally 'fine'. Dining approaches 'puke'.

Fine dining on scheduled trains does not exist in the USA! :angry:

And why should it?

Nice comfy, low-bucket coach seats and beef jerky is all you need!

 

[Konrad]

On the CARDINAL dinette, about two or three years ago, I experienced what I would consider "fine dining" service from some of the staff, even with that train's plastic plates, etc. On some trains, one might experience worse service.
Around five or six years ago, I found AMTRAK dining service to be at least adequate, but usually with a touch of class, on the SILVER PALM, SILVER STAR and on the EMPIRE BUILDER as late as about two or three years ago. I considered most of their dining staff to be exceptional. They seem to usually try to make the experience like "fine dining", even if it might be just regular restaurant or even fast food-like quality.

I think the railroads always attempted to at least give that impression. True "fine dining" might entail an extra fare on private cars.

Service is generally 'fine'. Dining approaches 'puke'.

Fine dining on scheduled trains does not exist in the USA! :angry:

And why should it?

Nice comfy, low-bucket coach seats and beef jerky is all you need!

I'm a bedroom passenger and Amtrak food is a joke. Boring, cheap and repetitive. SFO - CHI - SFO with exactly the same menu (and specials) in both directions was, to say the least, disappointing.

Indian-Pacific Sydney - Perth and you'll get meals people talk about. And not for the same reasons people talk about Amtrak meals!!! :angry:

 

[Konrad]

On the CARDINAL dinette, about two or three years ago, I experienced what I would consider "fine dining" service from some of the staff, even with that train's plastic plates, etc. On some trains, one might experience worse service.
Around five or six years ago, I found AMTRAK dining service to be at least adequate, but usually with a touch of class, on the SILVER PALM, SILVER STAR and on the EMPIRE BUILDER as late as about two or three years ago. I considered most of their dining staff to be exceptional. They seem to usually try to make the experience like "fine dining", even if it might be just regular restaurant or even fast food-like quality.

I think the railroads always attempted to at least give that impression. True "fine dining" might entail an extra fare on private cars.

Service is generally 'fine'. Dining approaches 'puke'.

Fine dining on scheduled trains does not exist in the USA! :angry:

And why should it?

Nice comfy, low-bucket coach seats and beef jerky is all you need!

Oh, and our coaches have showers.

 

[Larry H.]

Your observations are a sad commentary on the state of our diners. Many here have long since given up on having a real dining experience and settled for somewhat tasty pre-made but boring repetitive meals. People who are not rabid rail supporters or apologist for Amtrak often are disappointed in the meals on board for the price charged. I have shared the table with many who gave Amtrak their first try from flying and are often unhappy with the kind of foods and accommodations they have paid for. It may be true that older passengers with long memories may be the most unhappy with the quality now given. People today growing up on Mc Donald's and other fast food presentation restaurants are probably the most forgiving. But then at Mc Donald's I don't expect more for my 5.00. However for a several thousand dollar trip, I would like to have a bit more variety and well prepared meals, served in a bit more comfy surroundings. A photo of almost any 50's diner will put todays Spartan rows of card tables to shame. Maybe there will be a glimmer of hope with more funding and new management, but I most likely will never see it.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Looking at this thread, it seems apparent to me that among those who have "prepaid" their meals, there are:

People who pay vastly varying degrees of price to ride Amtrak sleepers, and as a result we get

People who have vastly varying degrees of expectations of the dining experience.

Starting off with just the coach perspective, for those paying for their meals in the Dining car, the result is reasonable. Yes, you might be able to get the same steak for $10.95 at Applebees, but at least you can get it on the train, so it's still a decent buy.

For sleepers however, it seems the expectations are largely linked to price.

I'm what you could call a "Sleeper Cheapskate" as I will only make the trip if I can get one of the lowest 2 buckets in roomette, and I'm doubling up with a riding partner to help defray the costs. The result is that I'm usually paying between $60-$80 a night out of pocket for the upgrade.

I'm no stranger to either fast food or the "casual dining" experience as its called among the chain sit-down restaurants. I will do an occasional meal with company at a nicer seafood restaurant like M&S, but these are occasional.

Thus, I'm pretty satisfied with Amtrak's dining service. While the variety is limited, I've found nearly all my meals to be at least satisfactory, and some to be downright excellent. About my biggest gripe is that the breakfast potatoes tend to get cold quickly.

However, I can see that someone who paid top bucket for a single occupancy in a full bedroom is liable to have higher expectations from their meal experience, considering they likely paid $450 a night for their upgrade. Yes, a part of that is from having more space, but even a single person getting a late roomette can pay over $300 for a single night. I'm sure that to them, the meals fall short of their expectations.

So what would be the solution?

A revamp of the pricing structure to even out the buckets some more? This might price out people like me, and leave the sleepers hardly occupied, jeopardizing the service.

Some sort of a "super-sleeper" upgrade that allows the less price-sensitive among us to choose from some expanded, finer dining menu? Would Amtrak realistically be able to stock a train without having spoilage or frusrtrating people with sell-outs of the item they want?

It seems that for every one complaint I hear about the quality of Amtrak's dining service, I hear one remark that finds it perfectly acceptable, and one that praises it for being so much nicer than anything offered on airlines.

I guess as with anything, it's all about one's perspective.