FINE DINING ON AMTRAK

[warren]

Looking at this thread, it seems apparent to me that among those who have "prepaid" their meals, there are:
People who pay vastly varying degrees of price to ride Amtrak sleepers, and as a result we get

People who have vastly varying degrees of expectations of the dining experience.

Starting off with just the coach perspective, for those paying for their meals in the Dining car, the result is reasonable. Yes, you might be able to get the same steak for $10.95 at Applebees, but at least you can get it on the train, so it's still a decent buy.

For sleepers however, it seems the expectations are largely linked to price.

I'm what you could call a "Sleeper Cheapskate" as I will only make the trip if I can get one of the lowest 2 buckets in roomette, and I'm doubling up with a riding partner to help defray the costs. The result is that I'm usually paying between $60-$80 a night out of pocket for the upgrade.

I'm no stranger to either fast food or the "casual dining" experience as its called among the chain sit-down restaurants. I will do an occasional meal with company at a nicer seafood restaurant like M&S, but these are occasional.

Thus, I'm pretty satisfied with Amtrak's dining service. While the variety is limited, I've found nearly all my meals to be at least satisfactory, and some to be downright excellent. About my biggest gripe is that the breakfast potatoes tend to get cold quickly.

However, I can see that someone who paid top bucket for a single occupancy in a full bedroom is liable to have higher expectations from their meal experience, considering they likely paid $450 a night for their upgrade. Yes, a part of that is from having more space, but even a single person getting a late roomette can pay over $300 for a single night. I'm sure that to them, the meals fall short of their expectations.

So what would be the solution?

A revamp of the pricing structure to even out the buckets some more? This might price out people like me, and leave the sleepers hardly occupied, jeopardizing the service.

Some sort of a "super-sleeper" upgrade that allows the less price-sensitive among us to choose from some expanded, finer dining menu? Would Amtrak realistically be able to stock a train without having spoilage or frusrtrating people with sell-outs of the item they want?

It seems that for every one complaint I hear about the quality of Amtrak's dining service, I hear one remark that finds it perfectly acceptable, and one that praises it for being so much nicer than anything offered on airlines.

I guess as with anything, it's all about one's perspective.

I think your observations are on target. Personally, I have found the dining car experience to be OK. I have traveled on Amtrak enough over the past couple of years to understand that some items on the menu are often more consistent than others.

 

[daveyb99]

I would also agree the Diner is just "OK".

AMTRAK needs to invest time in new menu items and rotating them on and off the menu. Something CREATIVE. Anything.

I have no idea what kind of a deal AMTRAK could make with SKY CHEFS, but they are hurting right now due to airline cutbacks. They are in almost every major city AMTRAK serves. They have the infrastructure to create and deliver quality products. And at a reasonable price. This current vendor is fine with sodas and chips and the 7-11 style cafe products, but the rest is just blah.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm what you could call a "Sleeper Cheapskate" as I will only make the trip if I can get one of the lowest 2 buckets in roomette, and I'm doubling up with a riding partner to help defray the costs. The result is that I'm usually paying between $60-$80 a night out of pocket for the upgrade.

I am too-- a total pragmatist. It I am paying X number dollars to upgrade then I want to get Q number dollars in drinks, Y number dollars in food, Z number dollars in services that, given the fact that I am virile and 20, can do myself without any assistance, and V number dollars doubles it all if I have a partner.

And if Q, V, Y, and Z don't come within a reasonable range of the cost, X, then it isn't worth it.

That's where the diners come in-- Y.

Now it is universally agreed that if you're gonna drop $20 in the diner, you want to do it on the Empire Builder or one of the less-SDS affected routes. Go on down the list and you'll find the single-levels, the Silvers, LSL, ect which can't do anything besides a steam table and convection ovens. The price remains the same-- but think of this.

When you go to most diners (as in Denny's, Applebees, the national chains) all that food comes in flash FROZEN. Half the time it isn't even cooked from raw. And trust me, I have had burgers at Denny's that cost AS much as burgers on any diner (not snack car) in the fleet and they were AWFUL. At least with this you don't pay for something that is going to make you vomit.

Yes it would be nice to have the old diner service back. Yes this is a for-sure step down. But is it really that bad? Really... I don't mind making jokes about it but there's no reason to downright INSULT it as if it's dog crap.

 

[printman2000]

I have always been happy with the food and I have ridden Superliner and the LSL. I guess I am more willing to add the experience of being on a train to the experience of eating the food. So I kinda see it all together. If that makes any sense.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I have always been happy with the food and I have ridden Superliner and the LSL. I guess I am more willing to add the experience of being on a train to the experience of eating the food. So I kinda see it all together. If that makes any sense.

That-- and it feed you. Its food. Better than nothing.

 

[Larry H.]

I don't disagree that things are better food wise than they used to be. Coupled with way less help, longer waits, less selection, and sometimes rude service, it tends to disappoint some. Frankly I think I mentioned here on this or another post the other day that the Lakeshore for the limited diner it has and the less than tasteful crates stacked in the middle of the floor, was in my opinion a rather good meal, at least what I ordered which was a beef in wine or something like that. No complaints on that dinner meal. The waiter refused to sell the pizza to a coach passenger who sat with us saying it was uneatable. The morning meal was fair, but a cook preparing eggs and bacon would have been much more like one would want.

I am always curious about how a place like Applebees with teenagers in the kitchen and mostly pre made foods, can turn out such a normally good meal. I think Amtrak is closer to that now than before. That isn't to say it compares in any sense with the days when the food was made by people who cared how they turned it out. The observation on price structure is interesting also. For two of use we spent about 5,600 for a round trip to california. When a carrier charges that kind of fee, and it wasn't the highest bucket either, then one would like to think at least that the meals would be freshly made and served in somewhat pleasant surroundings. Before the last go round of installing plastic plates, as nice as they are, and removal of glasses and china and table cloths it was at least something like an attempt to create a sense of "fine" dining allah railroad style. But topped with even less selection, less service and sometimes silly things like "we don't make toast anymore". I mean, how hard could it be to make a piece of toast for morning breakfast? Somethings make little sense. I know that much of it was demanded by the congress and I have written my share of opinions to my congress men about the way they have treated the passengers.

If you settle for mediocre that is what you will continue to get.

 

[the_traveler]

People who are not rabid rail supporters or apologist for Amtrak often are disappointed in the meals on board for the price charged. I have shared the table with many who gave Amtrak their first try from flying and are often unhappy with the kind of foods and accommodations they have paid for.

And those people are happy with the "food" they get on airlines - flying from NY to LA or Chicago to Miami or Washington to Atlanta in coach? :huh: If they buy at the last minute, and/or pay full coach fares, they spend mucho bucks - and they are lucky to get some peanuts and a soda!

 

[ThayerATM]

I have always been happy with the food and I have ridden Superliner and the LSL. I guess I am more willing to add the experience of being on a train to the experience of eating the food. So I kinda see it all together. If that makes any sense.

When I started this post I used the term "fine dining" in the title, but I never expected "fine dining" on Amtrak. After all, Amtrak isn't Hotel Thayer at West Point. I've been there. Done that. It's a whole different world.

At the same time I've never been disappointed with Amtrak's food or the food presentation. This is a train, for pete's sake. My wife and I are bedroom travelers on a train, and the "free" food is a nice perk, as are the 1st class lounges.

My original post was to find out what different things I could expect in the dining cars on those three trains (EB, CS, and CZ) as compared to the LSL.

The most significant thing seems to be that the staff can make or break the experience, which is true of ANY train.

Next, the EB goes out of its way for amenities such as glass plates, stainless steel flatware, and cloth table covers.

Next, the CS goes out of its way by providing diverse cars for 1st class passengers. I like the extra touch of the PPC.

Next, the CZ is your typical full dining experience on Amtrak.

Next, the menu on all four trains will be pretty much the same, although the presentation can vary because of a full kitchen on the EB, CS and CZ.

Have I missed anything?

 

[transit54]

My experience with dining on Amtrak is very limited, as the bulk of my Amtrak experience is on daytime trains. Namely one trip on the LSL (in 2007) which I upgraded to a sleeper on board. I had a burger and while I admit my expectations were lowered by this forum, I think it was quite good. Not the best burger I ever had, but certainly well within my expectations. I wasn't the least bit disappointed. I can understand the complaints that people have about the meals on Amtrak, though. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone thinks it would take to bring Amtrak back to an acceptable level of quality. Obviously the food would cost more and there would likely need to be some staffing increases. But is that it? Do they have the equipment they need to make a jump in quality? Do you think these increases could be compensated for by increasing ticket prices?

Not to take this thread off topic, but one area I think Amtrak is very, very lacking in is food service on daytime trains. For long trips like the Maple Leaf, Vermonter, Adirondack, Pennsylvanian and I'm sure many others, one really needs to pack in advance as the food in the cafe cars is really terrible. Sure, I enjoy the cookies and some of the snacks, and do have a fondness for the AmMuffins, but if I want a solid lunch, I'd better bring it with me. The ham and cheese sandwiches they offer are nothing short of foul, and I can't really comment on the rest of the menu. Many people I have taken with me on train trips have constantly echoed the complaint that they can't get anything good to eat on the train and I think this really deters a lot of people. At least LD trains have decent food options, even if they're not comparable to the price paid. While it seems unlikely that Amtrak would ever add dining cars to daytime trains, there just has to be a better way. What did railroad do pre-Amtrak on these types of trains?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

My original post was to find out what different things I could expect in the dining cars on those three trains (EB, CS, and CZ) as compared to the LSL.

Just don't expect too much and you'll be fine.

 

[Larry H.]

The old time short distance trains I rode run by the Iillinois Central, "Green Diamond", the GM& O" Ann Rutledge" Missouri Pacific to Kansas City and Omaha (name escapes me) and the Walbash" Banner Blue", and more all carried full service diners with full table service with four waiters and a supervisor, a kitchen full of cooks and real everything. Its a recent development that rail travel should be so Spartan.

Your right, a short distance train trip is a food nightmare for some. If your Diabetic, or have Fat issues, your totally ignored. I always find it of interest that the vast percentage of sleeper passengers is over 50 and prone to both issues and yet not one fat reduced or sugar free item is on the menu most of the time. Even a small thing like sugar free syrup would be nice, but not so far. Even the local cheap diner can make you egg beaters or provide sugar free syrup, so far Amtrak hasn't a clue. And while I am at, how about a baked or no fat potato chip to go with that soggy sub.

 

[mercedeslove]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.

I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

 

[AlanB]

Even the local cheap diner can make you egg beaters or provide sugar free syrup, so far Amtrak hasn't a clue.

I'm not sure about the sugar free syrup, as I've never asked. But the following comes directly from the menu:

(Egg substitutes are available upon request.)

 

[Larry H.]

Even the local cheap diner can make you egg beaters or provide sugar free syrup, so far Amtrak hasn't a clue.

I'm not sure about the sugar free syrup, as I've never asked. But the following comes directly from the menu:

(Egg substitutes are available upon request.)

Your correct, I forgot that the last set of trips they did offer egg beaters.

 

[PRR 60]

People who are not rabid rail supporters or apologist for Amtrak often are disappointed in the meals on board for the price charged. I have shared the table with many who gave Amtrak their first try from flying and are often unhappy with the kind of foods and accommodations they have paid for.

And those people are happy with the "food" they get on airlines - flying from NY to LA or Chicago to Miami or Washington to Atlanta in coach? :huh: If they buy at the last minute, and/or pay full coach fares, they spend mucho bucks - and they are lucky to get some peanuts and a soda!

But they get to the destination in a few hours, not in a day or days. The need for decent food on a 50-hour trip is a lot more critical than the need for food on even a six hour flight.

I wish the LD dining cars got some of the attention that the food service in Acela First Class gets. On Acela there is a real attempt to be creative. The Acela menus are rotated and regularly changed. My criticism of Acela is that the menu may be too creative with no safe option. However, the last time I rode (January), the dinner offerings were great. I think the passengers on the LD's deserve some of that same effort and creativity. The menu in the LD's is dull, dull, dull. Over the course of multiple days captive to dining car food, that menu can get old in hurry.

 

[transit54]

I wish the LD dining cars got some of the attention that the food service in Acela First Class gets. On Acela there is a real attempt to be creative, and the menus are rotated and regularly changed. My criticism of Acela is that the menu may be too creative with no safe option, but the last time I rode, the dinner offerings were great. I think the passengers on the LD's deserve some of that same effort and creativity. The menu in the LD's is dull, dull, dull. Over the course of multiple days captive to dining car food, that menu can get old in hurry.

That brings up a very interesting point. What's involved in preparing the meals for Acela FC? I can't imagine them having much more than a convection oven. And if that's the case, I have to question why LD train meals aren't better and there isn't more variety. Sure, the Acela has much shorter distances between stations where it can be restocked, but I can't imagine that being much of an issue. If Amtrak can do it for the Acela, why not for LD trains? Is there something I'm missing, or has management just been neglecting the LD trains?

 

[Konrad]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.
I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

You don't get much more remote than the middle of the Nullarbor Plain and the food and service is excellent. Coupled with real linen, correct glasses and real china it's a meal to look forward to.

Of course, a separate economy diner helps them to maintain standards in first class.

And before anyone squawks about the fare differential, at current exchange rates the Indian-Pacific is cheaper than a mid bucket Amtrak fare. My journey in March is currently $AU2900 (thank goodness for low buckets and a purchase made before our dollar collapsed!).

 

[PRR 60]

That brings up a very interesting point. What's involved in preparing the meals for Acela FC? I can't imagine them having much more than a convection oven. And if that's the case, I have to question why LD train meals aren't better and there isn't more variety. Sure, the Acela has much shorter distances between stations where it can be restocked, but I can't imagine that being much of an issue. If Amtrak can do it for the Acela, why not for LD trains? Is there something I'm missing, or has management just been neglecting the LD trains?

Acela First Class meal prep is virtually identical to airline meal prep - convection ovens. In fact, the Acela galley is very mich like an airliner galley. Acela is now catered by Aramark - the national food service outfit. All Acela meals are designed to have a two-day shelf life, which could certainly work on most LD's with no tweaking. I'm not sure if Aramark is now catering all Amtrak, but I suspect they are.

Your point about the LD's being neglected is right on the mark. I think there is a feeling at Amtrak that Acela First Class passengers are knowledgeable and discriminating, and LD Sleeper passengers are Ma and Pa Kettle. So they try to wow the Acela group with good meals and unlimited wine and spirits, and the LD crowd gets Denny's style meals and one soft drink. That's not to say that the LD dining cars don't deliver some good food. But imaginative, not hardly.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I think he hit right on the mark there. Not everybody will dig Acela food, not everybody has a New Yorker tongue. You have to stock the train with food that will sell and won't go to waste.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.
I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

You don't get much more remote than the middle of the Nullarbor Plain and the food and service is excellent. Coupled with real linen, correct glasses and real china it's a meal to look forward to.

Of course, a separate economy diner helps them to maintain standards in first class.

And before anyone squawks about the fare differential, at current exchange rates the Indian-Pacific is cheaper than a mid bucket Amtrak fare. My journey in March is currently $AU2900 (thank goodness for low buckets and a purchase made before our dollar collapsed!).

Ok, you sold me. How much is fare from California to India?

 

[jackal]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.
I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

You don't get much more remote than the middle of the Nullarbor Plain and the food and service is excellent. Coupled with real linen, correct glasses and real china it's a meal to look forward to.

Of course, a separate economy diner helps them to maintain standards in first class.

And before anyone squawks about the fare differential, at current exchange rates the Indian-Pacific is cheaper than a mid bucket Amtrak fare. My journey in March is currently $AU2900 (thank goodness for low buckets and a purchase made before our dollar collapsed!).

You're making me envious!!!

I wish I would have been able to do it while I was down there. I had plans to, but we opted to extend our stay in SE Asia at the expense of some time in Australia, so we were only able to make a circle from Sydney to Cairns to Alice Springs to Adelaide, Melbourne, and back to Sydney.

I did stop and get a picture of myself standing on the tracks used by the Ghan and the Indian Pacific, though!

Ok, you sold me. How much is fare from California to India?

Actually, the Indian Pacific is the train run by Great Southern Railway of Australia from Sydney to Perth (with a side stop in Adelaide), thereby touching both the Indian (in Perth) and Pacific (in Sydney) oceans, hence the name.

One of the world's great train journeys...including a stretch on the world's longest length of straight track at 478 km without a single curve. (I've always wondered what speed the train hits on that stretch--any idea, Konrad?) It's wild terrain out there...very dry but beautiful!

(I probably won't be able to afford Gold Kangaroo service for awhile yet, so as much as I'd like to experience the luxury of it, I'll likely be stuck in a Red Kangaroo seat...)

 

[Konrad]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.
I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

You don't get much more remote than the middle of the Nullarbor Plain and the food and service is excellent. Coupled with real linen, correct glasses and real china it's a meal to look forward to.

Of course, a separate economy diner helps them to maintain standards in first class.

And before anyone squawks about the fare differential, at current exchange rates the Indian-Pacific is cheaper than a mid bucket Amtrak fare. My journey in March is currently $AU2900 (thank goodness for low buckets and a purchase made before our dollar collapsed!).

Ok, you sold me. How much is fare from California to India?

LAX - Mumbai - LAX via Sydney is $AU11000, since you asked. Why, I'll never know.

The point is that a minor country like Australia can run quite a few decent rail services and the US just seems to cater to the lowest possible denominator. It's about choice and in the US it's fly on minimum service airlines (and don't we all love US airports), drive (on the 'wrong' side of the road) or take the train.

I prefer the train because I see so much more and get to meet people. It's just such a pity that the experience is spoiled by the lousy food choices - it could, and should, be so much better.

Incidentally, most of our long distance trains are operated by private operators with a government subsidy, on government owned tracks. That's why the freights have to get out of the way - 200 voters have to be kept happy. <_<

 

[PetalumaLoco]

I think the food in the dining cars is fine. I mean you are on a train sometimes in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be the Ritz. I have had worse meals in many restaurants. I have only had one problem with food on Amtrak. The Tuna sandwich. I could have gone for a spoonful more of meat, but other than that it was very tasty. Beggars can't be choosers.
I'd rather have a tuna sandwich with a spoonful less of tuna then a bag of for six peanuts, or driving and stopping at a dive diner.

Think of it this way, you could have to bring your own food and there could be no food on board.

You don't get much more remote than the middle of the Nullarbor Plain and the food and service is excellent. Coupled with real linen, correct glasses and real china it's a meal to look forward to.

Of course, a separate economy diner helps them to maintain standards in first class.

And before anyone squawks about the fare differential, at current exchange rates the Indian-Pacific is cheaper than a mid bucket Amtrak fare. My journey in March is currently $AU2900 (thank goodness for low buckets and a purchase made before our dollar collapsed!).

Ok, you sold me. How much is fare from California to India?

LAX - Mumbai - LAX via Sydney is $AU11000, since you asked. Why, I'll never know.

The point is that a minor country like Australia can run quite a few decent rail services and the US just seems to cater to the lowest possible denominator. It's about choice and in the US it's fly on minimum service airlines (and don't we all love US airports), drive (on the 'wrong' side of the road) or take the train.

I prefer the train because I see so much more and get to meet people. It's just such a pity that the experience is spoiled by the lousy food choices - it could, and should, be so much better.

Incidentally, most of our long distance trains are operated by private operators with a government subsidy, on government owned tracks. That's why the freights have to get out of the way - 200 voters have to be kept happy. <_<

Well, it is what it is. I realize other countries have better rail service and accommodations. I'm going to enjoy what I nave here regardless.

 

[jackal]

LAX - Mumbai - LAX via Sydney is $AU11000, since you asked. Why, I'll never know.

Just so as not to scare the OP of the question (PetalumaLoco), LAX-BOM (Mumbai, aka Bombay) can be had for $1265 for a random pair of dates in October. Perhaps Konrad was explicitly specifying a stop in SYD, which would jack the fare up (that much, though!?).

But I suspect the question is irrelevant, since I think PetalumaLoco was confused about the train's route.

BTW, LAX-SYD can be had for $773 for the same random dates in October.

 

[AlanB]

I'm not sure if Aramark is now catering all Amtrak, but I suspect they are.

Bill, I'm not sure who does the catering for the LD's, and I suspect that it is indeed Aramark, but I can tell you for sure that it's no longer Gate.

Your point about the LD's being neglected is right on the mark. I think there is a feeling at Amtrak that Acela First Class passengers are knowledgeable and discriminating, and LD Sleeper passengers are Ma and Pa Kettle. So they try to wow the Acela group with good meals and unlimited wine and spirits, and the LD crowd gets Denny's style meals and one soft drink. That's not to say that the LD dining cars don't deliver some good food. But imaginative, not hardly.

I can't recall from the tally at the moment, but have you been on an LD since October? While still not up to Acela standards, things really did make a dramatic change on the LD's with the new menu that came out last October.