FINE DINING ON AMTRAK

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On a side note, I've noticed that I've never been carded in the diner or lounge to drink booze. I am 20, look 21 enough-- but I've always wondered if Amtrak can't do anything as long as I am well behaved because we cross various jurisdictions? I mean, isn't Amtrak its own jurisdiction?
Or do the staff just-- not care.
Legal drinking age is 21 everywhere in the United States (with some small exceptions), so I imagine that the staff doesn't care to card intensively, as long as you look old enough and are not obnoxious. They don't need to card you to refuse you service. Remember, bars and liquor stores that carefully check patrons' ages do so 1) to keep good order in their establishments, and 2) to avoid the heavy fines and temporary closures that can result from a police sting. #2 probably won't happen on an Amtrak train (though it used to).

Me, I'm old enough to remember when Amtrak followed state blue laws.
I have seen the staff ask for ID from people, but I'm not sure that all the staff always do.

And Amtrak gave up on following all the State's various laws, they basically just operate on the are you 21 premise.
Alan: unless things have changed since October 2007 (and perhaps they have), Amtrak may still follow some unconventional state laws regarding alcohol--"blue laws" at least. On the eastbound Cardinal for Sunday lunch (we were in West Virginia at the time), the dining hall staff told us we had to wait until 1pm to order wine or beer and that no liquor could be served until the Virginia state line, per West Virginia law.
And yet when I rode the Cardinal several years back I was sipping champagne in the lounge car as we went through New River Gorge, and again even a bit later at lunch.

I almost wonder if someone didn't want to be bothered selling you the wine.
The crew actually went to a lot of extra bother. Upon seating every every table the exchange went something like this: "Here's the lunch menu, the sandwich today is thus-and-such, and I'm sorry, but we can't serve alcohol until 1pm and no liquor until we reach the state line", "You what? I don't understand...", "It's the state law here; I know, it's a bit unusual, but we have to follow the laws for whatever state we're in".

And then, right at 1pm, they went to every table and said "It's 1pm, you may order wine or beer now if you'd like", took orders, and served promptly.

Were you heading east on a Sunday? It's just the one day of the week that the law affects.

I don't know what Amtrak's official policy on state laws is, but this experience certainly gave me the impression that Amtrak follows alcohol laws closely. But it could just be that I had an unusually zealous law-abiding crew, or that someone had tipped the crew off that some political muckity-muck was on board.
 
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In September we're going to be taking the Lake Shore Limited from Rochester NY (ROC) to Chicago, then takaing the Empire Builder from Chicago (CHI) to Seattle WA (SEA). After a couple of days in SEA we'll be getting on the Coast Starlight south to Emeryville (EMY). We'll overnight in EMY, then take the California Zephyr back to CHI, and then the LSL back to ROC. We will be riding in a bedroom all the way, so the meals will be included.
From what I've read on this forum, the dining car menu will stay pretty much the same throughout the trip. Not many "local foods," as on the CONO. How exciting is that?

We're already quite familiar with the dining car layout and menu on the LSL. What can we expect to be significantly different on any of the other three trains? Is it all about car layout? What's the big difference with "full service" dining that's said to be used on the Empire Builder, and dining on the California Zephyr? Dining on the Coast Starlight appears to be just a matter of "where" one chooses to eat.
The days of fine dining on a train are left to American Orient Express and the Napa Valley Wine/Dinner trains. Amtrak meals think Denny's on rail from what I have been reading.
 
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I'll bite. Is there an Amtrak lounge car open between 2 and 6 a.m.?
There can be.

After spending many unpleasant hours in LAUS waiting for the 1:25 AM Bus, then a tiresome ride on which they woke everybody up at 2:30 AM so we could eat HotDogs in Santa Clarita, then hanging around for an hour or so inside the Bakersfield Station, they finally allowed us to board the Northbound San Joaquin Train at 4:30 AM... in advance of a 4:55 AM departure. The snack bar in fact opened at 4:30 AM. I thought, Finally a chance to relax and sleep on board till daybreak, and a great chance for a Beer. The bartender of course disagreed, so it was back to HotDog and Pepsi for breakfast on board, once again.

I did discover later on that trip that the San Joaquin Train serves excellent "gourmet" coffee, with unlimited free refills!
 
On a side note, I've noticed that I've never been carded in the diner or lounge to drink booze. I am 20, look 21 enough-- but I've always wondered if Amtrak can't do anything as long as I am well behaved because we cross various jurisdictions? I mean, isn't Amtrak its own jurisdiction?
Or do the staff just-- not care.
Legal drinking age is 21 everywhere in the United States (with some small exceptions), so I imagine that the staff doesn't care to card intensively, as long as you look old enough and are not obnoxious. They don't need to card you to refuse you service. Remember, bars and liquor stores that carefully check patrons' ages do so 1) to keep good order in their establishments, and 2) to avoid the heavy fines and temporary closures that can result from a police sting. #2 probably won't happen on an Amtrak train (though it used to).

Me, I'm old enough to remember when Amtrak followed state blue laws.
I have seen the staff ask for ID from people, but I'm not sure that all the staff always do.

And Amtrak gave up on following all the State's various laws, they basically just operate on the are you 21 premise.
Alan: unless things have changed since October 2007 (and perhaps they have), Amtrak may still follow some unconventional state laws regarding alcohol--"blue laws" at least. On the eastbound Cardinal for Sunday lunch (we were in West Virginia at the time), the dining hall staff told us we had to wait until 1pm to order wine or beer and that no liquor could be served until the Virginia state line, per West Virginia law.
And yet when I rode the Cardinal several years back I was sipping champagne in the lounge car as we went through New River Gorge, and again even a bit later at lunch.

I almost wonder if someone didn't want to be bothered selling you the wine.
The crew actually went to a lot of extra bother. Upon seating every every table the exchange went something like this: "Here's the lunch menu, the sandwich today is thus-and-such, and I'm sorry, but we can't serve alcohol until 1pm and no liquor until we reach the state line", "You what? I don't understand...", "It's the state law here; I know, it's a bit unusual, but we have to follow the laws for whatever state we're in".

And then, right at 1pm, they went to every table and said "It's 1pm, you may order wine or beer now if you'd like", took orders, and served promptly.

Were you heading east on a Sunday? It's just the one day of the week that the law affects.

I don't know what Amtrak's official policy on state laws is, but this experience certainly gave me the impression that Amtrak follows alcohol laws closely. But it could just be that I had an unusually zealous law-abiding crew, or that someone had tipped the crew off that some political muckity-muck was on board.
Amtrak has to follow the laws for any particular State they are travelling through.

Utah has some pretty strange Liquor laws as well. I'm not sure what category a train would fall into-maybe Limo or Bus.

You can only buy from 10:00 am to 1:00 am. Here's a link for those interested. Used to be that on Sunday, they wouldn't allow Beer sales in the grocery store. If you want anything stronger to take home, it is only available at the state liquor store.

http://www.alcbev.state.ut.us/Liquor_Laws/...g_visitors.html
 
The days of fine dining on a train are left to American Orient Express and the Napa Valley Wine/Dinner trains. Amtrak meals think Denny's on rail from what I have been reading.
Sadly the American Orient Express is no more, so you won't be enjoying any fine dining on that train in the future. That is, unless someone comes along and buys the equipment and restarts the service.
 
Other than on The Rocky Mountaineer, one of the finest meals I've had in a rail dining car was on THIS train. If you are traveling up that way, it is worth the price, especially in the dome car.
 
Amtrak has to follow the laws for any particular State they are travelling through.Utah has some pretty strange Liquor laws as well. I'm not sure what category a train would fall into-maybe Limo or Bus.

You can only buy from 10:00 am to 1:00 am. Here's a link for those interested. Used to be that on Sunday, they wouldn't allow Beer sales in the grocery store. If you want anything stronger to take home, it is only available at the state liquor store.

http://www.alcbev.state.ut.us/Liquor_Laws/...g_visitors.html
Amtrak operates under Federal law on ROW's that are subject to Federal law, not state laws. If Amtrak wants to follow State laws on liquor, they are doing it to either just be nice or to avoid a fight in court, since that would cost them money. Everything about RR's is Federal law and controls, about the only thing that a state actually has the right to do is tax the land that the ROW is built on.
 
Seems that would be correct, Amtrak following FEDERAL laws, since they are a railroad.

We were told both on the Crescent 2 years ago by the lounge attendant, and the CONO last year by the LSA, that they follow local jurisdictional guidelines when SELLING alcohol.

Most probably a courtesy thing, what can the SA do, look out the window to see what county they are in, or use the radio (that they don't have) to contact the engineer to find out where the train is ???

We love the earlier post about a new use for the restrooms in coach. On our first CONO trip from Hammond to Greenville, we brought a flask of JD, but we had a sleeper. Buying liquor on a train is expensive.

And we vote for Amtrak to serve DR DEPPER !!!!!
 
Amtrak has to follow the laws for any particular State they are travelling through.Utah has some pretty strange Liquor laws as well. I'm not sure what category a train would fall into-maybe Limo or Bus.

You can only buy from 10:00 am to 1:00 am. Here's a link for those interested. Used to be that on Sunday, they wouldn't allow Beer sales in the grocery store. If you want anything stronger to take home, it is only available at the state liquor store.

http://www.alcbev.state.ut.us/Liquor_Laws/...g_visitors.html
Amtrak operates under Federal law on ROW's that are subject to Federal law, not state laws. If Amtrak wants to follow State laws on liquor, they are doing it to either just be nice or to avoid a fight in court, since that would cost them money. Everything about RR's is Federal law and controls, about the only thing that a state actually has the right to do is tax the land that the ROW is built on.
My mistake. I was under the impression from some previous threads discussing certain behaviours that Amtrak followed the laws of the state. Dumb question-So is Amtrak 'owned' by the Feds, or just subsidized?
 
Dumb question-So is Amtrak 'owned' by the Feds, or just subsidized?
Well there are some freight RR's that still own some common stock in Amtrak, but that is basically worthless paper as Amtrak has never paid a dividend in its history. But all the preferred stock, which is also the voting stock, is owned by the citizens of the United States, held in trust for us by the DOT.

Therefore the best answer to your question would be that the US owns most of Amtrak, but not quite all.
 
There is a great deal of disagreement concerning what Amtrak and airlines must do regarding following state liquor laws. The US Constitution specifically delegates control of liquor sales to the states. That very same constitution delegates control of interstate commerce to the federal government. Is serving alcohol on a train or plane subject to state control of liquor or federal control of commerce? Good question. This has resulted in kind of standoff - with states declaring they have control over Amtrak and airline sales, and the carriers saying - well, maybe not.

The standoff continues today with neither side really willing to press their luck by asserting authority and causing a court case. The result is kind of a truce. The unwritten rule is that carriers purchase state liquor licenses for every state in which they operate (land or stop). The states then do not enforce time of day, day of the week, or any peculiar quirks in their sales law on the carriers. This has pretty much ended most of the "we can't do this until we are out of the state" nonsense. With some notable exceptions (US Airways and New Mexico, for example), the truce has held. Neither side is in a hurry to have a court test because each side fears the other may win. It is kind of like the old USA-USSR days. Mutual Assured Destruction has brought an uneasy peace.
 
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Amtrak publishes and keeps updated it's Employee Standards manual to reflect all the states individual liquor laws.

Amtrak requires all it's employees to know, understand and to follow state liquor laws.
 
For those interested, in approximately early June, the Empire Builder and the Crescent will be upgrading their dining car menus a bit. Some more regional, but unique to that train, items will be added.

I know that on the EB, salmon and catfish are returning and that Ivars clam chowder and a bison meatloaf will debut. I'm told that biscuits and gravy and pancakes will be on the breakfast menu.
 
For those interested, in approximately early June, the Empire Builder and the Crescent will be upgrading their dining car menus a bit. Some more regional, but unique to that train, items will be added.
I know that on the EB, salmon and catfish are returning and that Ivars clam chowder and a bison meatloaf will debut. I'm told that biscuits and gravy and pancakes will be on the breakfast menu.
Oh boy! BUFFALOAF!
 
For those interested, in approximately early June, the Empire Builder and the Crescent will be upgrading their dining car menus a bit. Some more regional, but unique to that train, items will be added.
I know that on the EB, salmon and catfish are returning and that Ivars clam chowder and a bison meatloaf will debut. I'm told that biscuits and gravy and pancakes will be on the breakfast menu.
Oh boy! BUFFALOAF!

(imitating Homer Simpson) mmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!! Buffaloaf!!!!! :p

Any word on menu changes for CZ or CS?
 
For those interested, in approximately early June, the Empire Builder and the Crescent will be upgrading their dining car menus a bit. Some more regional, but unique to that train, items will be added.
I know that on the EB, salmon and catfish are returning and that Ivars clam chowder and a bison meatloaf will debut. I'm told that biscuits and gravy and pancakes will be on the breakfast menu.
biscuits and gravy for breakfast ? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that will be one thing I wil not be ordering of the menu!
 
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biscuits and gravy for breakfast ? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that will be one thing I wil not be ordering of the menu!
Biscuits and gravy for breakfast is good eating. I am sure that Amtrak will completely mess it up though.
 
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