Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

Do you think the "leather" covers of the new seats are detrimental to comfort? I find cloth velour a lot more comfortable.

Nice to see that, for once, the DL3 has more tech than the X3-45 on something. Unfortunately, the extra HVAC in the parcel racks doesn't get rid of the D4505's disgusting odor.

How bad does the Salt Belt affect steel buses compared to fiberglass?

 

[railiner]

I have mixed feelings about the leatherette....fabric feels warmer in winter, and cooler in summer, and 'grips' you from sliding around. Leatherette is more spill resistant, and easier to clean. The fabric, if it covers the headrest, can feel abrasive if your face touches it, although most fabric seats seem to have vinyl in that area....

Some people might perceive the leatherette as more 'luxurious'....

I believe most of the frame and critical areas of the bus today are constructed of stainless steel, or else have some kind of corrosion resistant treatment to protect them. I never liked fiberglass bodies on a bus. I miss the aluminum fluted 'silverside' look of old. The fiberglass panels on our H3's have horrible panel gaps, and quality control....

I believe I mentioned recently, how you need to press in on the fender with your foot, in order to open the battery compartment door, or the edges bind each other ....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I've heard that steel, no matter how well treated, still gets eaten up in the Salt Belt. Don't know if it's true or not. Since fiberglass doesn't corrode at all, perhaps segregating fiberglass units for the Salt Belt and steel units outside the Salt Belt would be a good idea?

Yeah, seems like the H3-45 isn't trouble-free either, though the X3-45 also seems to have problems with the "edges". I'll cite the roof leak as an example. Maybe the Restyled J4500 is better, though it would also have a jerking problem if the suspension is the same as the D4505.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Maybe the jerking issue might be caused by the transmission. I've been on 2015 Gilligs that went into service not too long ago and it's kind of a jerky ride, similar to what you're experiencing. I mean I know the situation is different, since I'm comparing a transit bus to a motorcoach, but you never know.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Wow! Greyhound #6263 is running Sked 6743-2 San Francisco-San Ysidro! The regular is an Americanos X3-45, #60580. Americanos units are normal for this route. But I didn't know #6263 had been rebuilt and equipped with a wheelchair lift. It's never been spotted or reported before.

I doubt the jerking is caused by the transmission since the X3-45 has the same transmission, Allison B500. More likely it is caused by the stiff steering wheel, which has been reported by drivers to caused shoulder pain unless you are used to it.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

The jerking could also be caused by the brakes if it's on start out from a stop. Our new gilligs do that. From a dead stop it jerks because the brakes don't release right when the brake pedal is released.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

The jerking could also be caused by the brakes if it's on start out from a stop. Our new gilligs do that. From a dead stop it jerks because the brakes don't release right when the brake pedal is released.

That maybe what's plaguing Lynx's Gilligs as well. Never thought of that there.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The brakes? I hadn't thought of that, either. Perhaps it is caused by the Bendix EX225 Air Disc Brakes installed in the new MCIs. Still, the stiff steering wheel is a major pain for drivers, and should be corrected. Something has got to be causing the tilting and jerking during turning; something other than brakes. But the brakes certainly could be a part of the problem.

Another problem is the bad smell. While the toilet may be the culprit, I feel like there's something else exacerbating the issue, something that is unique to GLI's D4505s.

I'm still interested about the Salt Belt. Is it better to run fiberglass or steel buses in the Salt Belt? Similarly, is it better to run fiberglass or steel buses in hot-and-high areas?

 

[railiner]

We have a 'jerking' problem in some of our buses, most prevalent in our 2009's, and interestingly both Prevost H3's and our Van Hools. I can't say for sure, but it seems more like the engine control unit is causing a 'jerky' throttle at certain speeds....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Perhaps so. I'll have to ask some more people about the issue. One driver said it was the air bellows being too tall, while another said it was because the steering wheel is too stiff.

If it is the ECU and the jerking is also in the H3-45s, then wouldn't Greyhound's X3-45s with the same engine have the same jerking?

Anything else on the Salt Belt and corrosion?

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I'm sure some of you have heard of the bus wars, Greyhound vs. Peter Pan.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/business/new-york-washington-5-is-cheaper-fare-since-1952.html

 

[rickycourtney]

I hadn't heard of that… Very interesting! It's even more interesting when you consider that Greyhound and Peter Pan now team up to run BoltBus between Boston, New York and DC.

I feel like bus companies could serve to do something like that again. Ultra low, loss leader prices are a great way to get people in the door and try the service out. BoltBus and Megabus do this to an extent with their dollar fares, although I think that is more about getting people to check out their prices.

If Greyhound picked a week, offered several (like 20) seats with $5 fares between major metropolitan areas they might get people to come try Greyhound again. And if you make the tickets only available for advance online purchase, you'd probably get good, younger, tech-savvy passengers who would be willing to take Greyhound again. That is, of course, if Greyhound can keep their act together for that week.

Note that I say Greyhound, really any bus company could do this, but Greyhound would have the most to gain from trying it out.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Those passengers would be driven away right after the sale ends due to the Painful Premiers.

Peter Pan could beat Greyhound easily right now since their buses are far more comfortable than Greyhounds new buses. Their maintenance and drivers are also better. Plus, those fiberglass J4500s don't have to be waxed to prevent corrosion like Greyhound's steel buses do.

I'm wondering, if you had to choose between a Painful D4505 and a Beat-to-Hell G4500, which would you choose?

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I pretty much would pick whatever bus comes. Me, along with any passenger has no say in what bus should transport them, just as long as the bus and the person driving it can get us from point A to point B.

As for painful seats, I would bring a pillow to sit on. Don't know what else you can do in a situation with a bus that has horrible seats.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

You can boycott the operator and not ride the bus.

Passengers have the final say on bus operations. If we don't like it, we'll boycott it.

Remember: No passengers, no profits. I'll just fly.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

That's true, however many don't have the time for that. Like you just said, if they don't like the Greyhound experience, passengers will just fly, take Megabus or any other bus company that does intercity bus service, or take Amtrak.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yep. Lots of people don't like Greyhound. So if Peter Pan competed with their fiberglass J4500s equipped with comfortable Amaya or National seats, they could really hurt Greyhound.

Since the D4505 performs poorly, perhaps Peter Pan should get rid of them. They are taking delivery of D4500CTs and J4500s.

Why don't Peter Pan try out Prevost?

 

[rickycourtney]

So I found a few pictures of the BoltBus H3-45 coaches over on CPTDB. #6667 and #6669 were both spotted on the Seattle-Vancouver, BC run.

BoltBus Prevost H3-45 #6667-2 by Dannny29, on Flickr

I find it interesting that Greyhound didn't bother to put a headsign on these buses, at least not yet.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Seems like a nice ride. This may be giving me an opportunity to ride the H3-45 again, something I have not done in a long time. #6669 appears to have either National or Prevost proprietary seating. The front end with the quad windshields and old "PREVOST" logo do seem a bit outdated. Perhaps a recap would solve that. Still, they're got to be more comfortable than the D4505s and X3-45s with the Painful Premiers.

I must say, I do not like the bolt decal going over the windows.

#6670 does have an orange destination sign. I wonder if these H3-45s have driver shields.

Does fiberglass actually help in the Salt Belt, or not?

 

[rickycourtney]

They're a nice, quick addition to the fleet as the service grows. I don't see these buses sticking around too long (they're already 14 years old) so a recap probably doesn't make financial sense.

I'm likely going to take a trip up to Vancouver soon. If we decide to take BoltBus over Amtrak, I'm hoping we get one of these H3-45 coaches because I'd like to compare them to the X3-45 coaches for comfort.

It wouldn't be too hard to add a destination sign to these coaches, so that's why I said "at least not yet." They're helpful in Seattle and Portland where you can often have multiple buses, boarding at the same location, for different destinations.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I hope they are kept as long as it takes for MCI or Prevost to come up with a good, new clean-sheet design. Currently, they only keep updating old designs. It's about time MCI came up with a K4500 or L4500.

As long as the old buses still work, it's best to keep them. No reason to buy a new bus if you don't need it. Going into heavy debt must really been weighing down on Greyhound, along with inefficient new engines and painful seats.

I'm interested in what equipment GLC is using in Vancouver. Could you check it out while you're there? Too bad #1125 slipped off the highway in cold weather and crashed.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Swadian, I can't speak for the other aspects of the buses, but the inefficient engines are more the epa fault then the manufacturer thanks to the unwanted emission crap. The emissions control crap coupled with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel actually made engines less efficient. The damn epa can't understand that more fuel is being uses with this stuff then with the older engines and fuel.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, that's why I said they should keep the old buses for as long as they can. The new buses are all less efficient, regardless of the engine or bus manufacturer. ULSD doesn't make that big of an impact, it's the emissions control stuff on the engine that really increases fuel consumption.

As far as manufacturers go, Cummins seems to use more fuel than Detroit or Volvo.

GLI should have kept all their DL3s rather than sending so many to GLC and buying D4505s. GLI should have bought only X3-45s and not with Painful Premiers. I think they could have kept the D3s, too. GLC should have kept all their D3s and DL3s rater than taking GLI DL3s and a few X3-45s. They shouldn't have bought D4505s, either.

The 102D3 was a good bus, and very fast (for a bus) to boot.

 

[rickycourtney]

Yeah, that's why I said they should keep the old buses for as long as they can. The new buses are all less efficient, regardless of the engine or bus manufacturer. ULSD doesn't make that big of an impact, it's the emissions control stuff on the engine that really increases fuel consumption.

As far as manufacturers go, Cummins seems to use more fuel than Detroit or Volvo.

GLI should have kept all their DL3s rather than sending so many to GLC and buying D4505s. GLI should have bought only X3-45s and not with Painful Premiers. I think they could have kept the D3s, too. GLC should have kept all their D3s and DL3s rater than taking GLI DL3s and a few X3-45s. They shouldn't have bought D4505s, either.

The 102D3 was a good bus, and very fast (for a bus) to boot.

Just so we're clear... the change in engine regulations wasn't to necessarily increase fuel economy, but to drastically reduce emissions. It's worth noting that it's been a success and that Diesel engines are now much cleaner (gone are the days of big soot clouds rising from trucks and buses). As a citizen of earth, that's worth the added expense and change in performance. It's also my understanding, that fuel consumption hasn't drastically changed (and it's vastly improved if you compare the numbers to pre-1980s coaches). You're looking at the Altoona numbers that to my understanding, while good, are nowhere as precise as the EPA numbers you're used to seeing at a car dealership.

Also, bluntly, the 102DL3 coaches are gone, the D4505 coaches are here to stay, the Premier seats have been installed, the milk has been spilled.

Where do you go from here?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The 102DL3 coaches aren't gone. Not yet, anyway. And the 102DL3 did not emit soot clouds anyway.

If the government is so worried about bus emissions, why don't they go ahead and ban smoking everywhere? That would help more people than choosing emissions over fuel economy in buses. And how come new aircraft both use less fuel and emit less pollution, while new buses use more fuel to emit less pollution?

I smell cars and pickups driving by that emit more pollution than a bus. Crack down on those pieces of [edited] if you're going to crack down on buses. I bet locomotives and ships are allowed more leniency than buses, considering all the old locos and ships still around. Not that buses should pollute more, but that others should pollute less. And outlaw smoking already!

When Greyhound goes bankrupt for the third time, they may not have a chance to recover.