Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[rickycourtney]

Anyway... I neglected to mention, Greyhound has some brand new X3-45s at the Orlando terminal, but I don't know the road numbers of those units. Speaking of that, what caused Greyhound to cancel the D4505 order anyway? I was surprised to hear the order had been canceled. The advertisement for the D4505s that Greyhound had on order was removed from MCI's website.

I wasn't aware that Greyhound cancelled any orders from MCI. The last order they made was in early 2013 when they ordered 130 D4505 buses at the same time as they ordered 90 X3-45 buses from Prevost.

Greyhound followed that order up with another order for 55 X3-45 buses in 2014.

According to all records I can find online, all of these buses have been delivered and Greyhound has no more buses on order at this point.

 

[rickycourtney]

Okay hypothetical scenario…
You're in charge of purchasing 200 buses for Greyhound (or another bus line)... what model would you buy?
What features would you include?
What kind of seating would it have?

My only requirement it has to be a *brand new* bus (not refurbished) and something currently on the market (no fantasy models).

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Mercedes-Benz Travego. If that doesn't qualify than the Setra S417.

 

[railiner]

I would have to do a more thorough study before making that decision, but offhand, would probably go with what they are currently buying....the Prevost X3-45....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I would buy the MCI D4500CL with Amaya-Astron Torino VIP seating with three-point seat belts, 46 passenger capacity, Detroit Diesel Series 13 engine, Allison B500 transmission with Jacobs Engine Brake, Michelin XZA2 Energy tires, Wi-Fi router, power outlets, extra-extra legroom, enclosed parcel racks, Blaupunkt TV's, improved Amerax fire-suppression, hand-free radio system, parcel rack air-conditioning, sedan doors, stainless-steel flanks, and stainless-steel restroom module with running water. And yes, if I ever have a bus company, that is exactly what I would buy, unless MCI can come up with something better than the D4500CL, and I would happily compete against GML's Travego and run him into bankruptcy.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Pfui. Or vice versa.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I had to go on an emergency trip to Sacramento so I'm in Sacramento right now. Yesterday I rode 2013 MCI D4504 #86544 from Reno to Sacramento, with trainee driver Loewy, who got lost in Roseville due to road works. Our bus had quite a full load and tomorrow Greyhound will be adding an additional daily frequency on the Reno-San Francisco route.

I saw new Greyhound Express branding in Reno, which will begin service tomorrow, it is applied to Gate 4. So now we have gate assignments by destination. Here they are:

Gate 1-Spare gate/Extra sections

Gate 2-Salt Lake City, Denver

Gate 3-San Francisco (local)

Gate 4-San Francisco (express)

Spotting at Reno yesterday:

2013 MCI D4505 #86544 at Gate 3A, to San Francisco (my bus).

2013 MCI D4505 #86533 at Gate 3B, to No Destination.

2010 MCI D4505 #86312 at Gate 4A, to No Destination.

2002 MCI-Dina G4500 Rehab #7191 at Gate 2A, to Denver.

2000 MCI 102DL# #6398 at the Ready Lot, to No Destination.

Spotting at Sacramento yesterday:

2013 MCI D4505 #86544, to San Francisco.

2013 MCI D4505 #86514, to Portland.

2006 MCI D4505 #60544 (Americanos), to Los Angeles.

1999 MCI 102DL3 #6334, to No Destination.

Unknown MCI D4505, to Reno.

#86544 was the worst D4505 I have ever ridden, rough ride and loud Cummins ISX12, though I do not know if that is due to Loewy's driving skills (not the greatest). He also opened up the rear hatches before boarding, allowing me to get three shots of the engine in action, that will prove Greyhound's D4505 only has one radiator fan. #7191 was the first rehabbed G4500 I've seen. After a walk around the bus, it seems to be in good condition, took a peek inside from the driver's window and it still had the same old Amaya Brasil (not Brazil) seats. Seems very similar to J4500. Not great but at least it's going to be comfier than a D4505. Would I happily ride it to Denver? Uh, the initial though is "no", but then again, I'm Swadian Hardcore, I take risks, and I'm adventurous. So, if I go to board Sked 1314 a few weeks from now, and I see a blue G4500, I'll just step aboard, take a seat, and see what happens. I will try to have no whining or fretting in my thoughts, even though it is a 23-hour ride.

Greyhound has put 100th Anniversary shields on the R1 windows of #86544 and #86312, I'm thinking the entire fleet will soon have them.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

If I were forced to pick 200 new buses being the current model, I would choose X3-45s. Why these buses and not anything else, well Greyhound already has more than 300+ of these coaches with more still arriving.

It makes sense to standardize the fleet with one model instead of having different models all at once. As for what seats and amenities will be on these buses, pretty much the same that's on all of Greyhound's existing fleet of X3-45s.

 

[rickycourtney]

So personally I would go with the X3-45 as well. I like the D4500CT but it would require so many modifications to make it right for this service (more modifications, more potential problems.)

I would go with black leather Torino VIP seats with the "airline style food tray" (nice place for people to put their laptop and other electronic gadgets), center armrests, magazine pockets and three-point seat belts. I'd equip the bus with Wi-Fi (including Greyhound's awesome BLUE system), power outlets, enclosed parcel racks (looks sharp, less falling objects) and stainless-steel restroom with a flushing toilet and a running water hand sink.

A couple of crazy ideas... I'd like to see the overhead racks get lighted "Keep Seat Belt Fastened" signs and the lavatory get a lighted "Return to Seat" sign like on airplanes. I would make it part of the drivers job to turn on the sign when pulling off the highway and onto city streets and when the bus is in heavy traffic. You could also make the light controlled by the speed of the bus, anything under 45 could illuminate it.

I also like the idea of having overhead TV's... but I wouldn't use them to play movies (especially on Gryehound). Instead I would want it connected to a GPS driven automatic announcement system. The idea would be to play a safety video as the bus departs a major city, while enroute show a map of the buses location, announce when you are approaching the next stop, give some information about where you're traveling through and play some limited advertising (including announcements about the features of the bus.) That would take some of the workload off the driver and insure consistency when it comes to announcements. I would turn the monitor screens off after dark (except to announce when you are approaching the next stop.)

 

[railiner]

So personally I would go with the X3-45 as well. I like the D4500CT but it would require so many modifications to make it right for this service (more modifications, more potential problems.)

I would go with black leather Torino VIP seats with the "airline style food tray" (nice place for people to put their laptop and other electronic gadgets), center armrests, magazine pockets and three-point seat belts. I'd equip the bus with Wi-Fi (including Greyhound's awesome BLUE system), power outlets, enclosed parcel racks (looks sharp, less falling objects) and stainless-steel restroom with a flushing toilet and a running water hand sink.

A couple of crazy ideas... I'd like to see the overhead racks get lighted "Keep Seat Belt Fastened" signs and the lavatory get a lighted "Return to Seat" sign like on airplanes. I would make it part of the drivers job to turn on the sign when pulling off the highway and onto city streets and when the bus is in heavy traffic. You could also make the light controlled by the speed of the bus, anything under 45 could illuminate it.

I also like the idea of having overhead TV's... but I wouldn't use them to play movies (especially on Gryehound). Instead I would want it connected to a GPS driven automatic announcement system. The idea would be to play a safety video as the bus departs a major city, while enroute show a map of the buses location, announce when you are approaching the next stop, give some information about where you're traveling through and play some limited advertising (including announcements about the features of the bus.) That would take some of the workload off the driver and insure consistency when it comes to announcements. I would turn the monitor screens off after dark (except to announce when you are approaching the next stop.)

You've got some nice idea's there....

As for which choice on the basic coach, I'm sure the analyst's at GL and parent FirstGroup will choose which is ultimately the best choice. Now that the "crisis" of ADA compliance seems to have been met, it will be interesting on what they will order in the future, when not under fire....

 

[rickycourtney]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on a refurbished G4500. Did you snap any pictures of the interior?

So considering tomorrow is the start of the new Greyhound schedule I'm interested to see what kind of equipment we will see in Seattle. 8 buses a day will either be traveling to or arriving from Los Angeles and with California's ban on pre-2007 large diesel engines (without a diesel particulate filter) that prevents Greyhound from using the 102DL3 or the G4500 on these routes. That means we are gonna be seeing a lot more of the newer D4500 buses up here or maybe even the X3-45.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I actually saw a rebuilt 102DL3 in Sacramento on Monday (#6334) along with an old Americanos D4505, both are pre-2007. I'm assuming the buses both have DPF's. At least Greyhound should have installed a DPF when they rebuilt the 102DL3. However, I do not expect to see any more G4500's in California, since they are apparently not rebuilt.

I snapped a bunch of shots all around the blue G4500 but couldn't go inside. I did look inside through the front windows, and seems to be clean and comfortable. It's clean for sure, the entire bus is clean and did not have any cracks. A few little white blemishes on the bumper, to be expected, they're so tiny that I didn't see them in person, but saw them after looking through my shots. Tires, wheel hubs, all are in great shape. Can't see anything wrong with it, but of course it is still fiberglass. Unfortunately, I cannot upload photos right now, because my PC cannot accommodate my memory stick. Have to wait until I get back to Reno. But yeah, I think it was probably the cleanest bus in Reno that day, everything was clean but the G4500 was the cleanest, it even reflected the station fixtures clearly.

No X3-45's at all. I still doubt Greyhound will use them in the West, the westernmost X3-45 base is Dallas Garage. I'm thinking the D4505's will hold down the north-south routes throughout the West, also short hauls to Reno, Las Vegas, Mexicali, etc., combined with the various Americanos buses which are still on Americanos schedules (9000's). Seattle will likely see D4505's on the Los Angeles runs and G4500/H3-45 on the other runs. The former Sacramento-Portland was a D4505 on Monday, I think it was always a D4505 up until its cancellation today in favor of Los Angeles through runs. It was packed with passengers, the line stretched across the entire Sacramento Terminal.

The Americanos D4505 in Sacramento was on 9303 Sacramento-Los Angeles, definitely an Americanos sked. Sorry, no photos from SAC, already got in trouble with Security once, don't need it twice.

Overall, I'd say Greyhound's doing the right thing at least, except for the sagging Premier LS and the photography ban (which is rarely enforced).

By the way, you'll probably not see D4500's in Seattle, they are the exact same thing as the 102DL3. I think you meant the D4505.

 

[rickycourtney]

However, I do not expect to see any more G4500's in California, since they are apparently not rebuilt.

Seattle will likely see D4505's on the Los Angeles runs and G4500/H3-45 on the other runs.

Funny you should say that. The inaugural schedule 1431 from Vancouver to Los Angeles was actually being operated by a G4500. Maybe they're okay to run in California? I don't fully understand my beloved home state's wacky emissions rules.

I also spotted #6670, one of Greyhound's H3-45 units on schedule 6901 (Stanfield, OR - Seattle, WA). It has been repainted into the new blue livery and it looks really sharp. Couldn't tell if the interior had been upgraded to leather seating (the door did have the icons for legroom, outlets & Wi-Fi.)



Here's all my spottings today:

#7221 Blue G4500 (1431 Vancouver, BC - Los Angeles)

#6670 Blue H3-45 (6901 Stanfield, OR - Seattle)

#86531 D4505 (not sure the exact schedule, headsign said "Seattle" and it arrived around 12:50, may have been a second section for 6504 running nonstop from Portland.)

#86520 D4505 (6504 Portland - Seattle)

Oh and big news! Greyhound has introduced a smartphone app for BoltBus (finally!) and they are now doing eticketing. I snapped a picture of the driver lifting tickets with his smartphone (looks like an iPhone). In this picture he's showing a passenger how to hold their phone so he can scan it. It's my understanding that BoltBus is testing the new eTicketing system before it's rolled out systemwide to Greyhound.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What? A G4500? I guess they are allowed in California after all. But you said you saw Schedule 6504? That is not on the latest timetable. Which means the schedules could be still operating as the previous timetable until everything gets set up. #86531 could have been a delayed Sked 1431 from Vancouver, then #7221 takes over from Seattle to Portland, before another D4505 continues to Sacramento. That's how it used to run before the new timetable.

Yes, that H3-45 sure is looking sharp! I hear they are actually quite reliable, just not fast at all. Maybe Greyhound should try out a few for routes that need the luggage capacity, but aren't very demanding for speed. Perfect for Seattle Garage because the speed limits aren't that high and the "cool looks" could convince more passengers back to Greyhound after the G4500 debacle. I hear from Keegan, a Seattle driver, that #6670 does have the "leatherette seat covers", but retains the old seats from Coach America.

Would not mind riding any of these Seattle coaches now. Sure, some of the D4505's ride bad and are very loud, but they are still clean and don't smell like burning plastic (old G4500). The blue G4500's are so clean I don't think they would smell like burning plastic anymore, either. The reason some still consider them "sh*t" is probably because of the fiberglass construction and other design aspects. Just like the J4500, blue G4500's probably still unreliable, but it doesn't smell bad, and it's not dangerous, they apparently fixed the "detaching axles" problem.

Edit: Hmm, actually, #86531 could have been an extra section for 1431.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Ricky, nice pic there of that H3-45. I heard Greyhound also has Van Hools for charter runs. I saw a picture of a Van Hool T2145 in Greyhound's blue livery on Flickr. As far as loud motorcoaches go, this had to have been the loudest new coach I've ever filmed or photographed. This is the new Van Hool CX45 with a DD13 engine in it.

 

[rickycourtney]

By the way, you'll probably not see D4500's in Seattle, they are the exact same thing as the 102DL3. I think you meant the D4505.

You're right that was a typo... I meant D4505. But we do see D4500's here in Seattle all the time. As a matter of fact, I rode a D4500CL to Tacoma yesterday.



Sound Transit Route 594 runs half-hourly service (more frequent during rush hour) between Seattle, Tacoma and Lakewood. Reasonably comfortable seats with a little legroom for the 1 hour ride... but no place to put my Starbucks! Also, no WiFi and no power outlets.

I also considered taking Greyhound for one leg of the trip, but the schedule didn't work out for me (I'd still like to do it another time).

I posted a little trip report here: Taking Transit to Tacoma.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

OK, I'm heading back to Reno tomorrow. Finally got this cr*p in Sacramento done. My D4505 rides are pretty much getting worse and worse. Hopefully I can try out a D4505 with the H engine tomorrow, the Detroit 60 with EGR. Ugh, Cummins ISX12 sucks.

That D4500CL looks quite uncomfortable, seats look like American Seating 2095 with plastic covers. UTA has nice D4500's in Salt Lake City with Wi-Fi too, but I've never used the Wi-Fi. I rode Route 811 which was a nearly-empty D4500CT #7082, took the shotgun seat by the old driver. On the layover at Sandy he just played games on a console. Never seen a driver doing that. The ride was very smooth and quiet, just like a 102DL3, compared to the annoying D4505's. That's why I like the D4500CL/CT. Too bad I didn't any good photos on UTA.

By the way, on #86544, the engine was so loud you could not hear the HVAC at all, which used to be the worst sound of the D4505. But the HVAC apparently malfunctioned, it was steaming hot at boarding, only got better about 20 minutes or so into the trip. I have no praises for this bus at all, it was clean and had good legroom, but that's Greyhound's arrangement, not the MCI D4505.

 

[rickycourtney]

That D4500CL looks quite uncomfortable, seats look like American Seating 2095 with plastic covers.

They weren't the most comfortable seats I've sat in. Just like the American Seating Premier they were fine for an hour or so. Anything more than that wouldn't be fun.

Some of Sound Transit's newer buses (like the New Flyer DE60LFR) have Patriot PT seats.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I looked up Sound Transit Interiors on Flickr, are you sure they have Patriot PT seats? How the heck did they get Patriot PT seats into a transit bus?

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Does anyone know what road numbers are on the new D4505s and Prevost X3-45s?

 

[rickycourtney]

I looked up Sound Transit Interiors on Flickr, are you sure they have Patriot PT seats? How the heck did they get Patriot PT seats into a transit bus?

They definitely do. Here's a shot of them on Flickr: https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/zheistand/6717577013/in/set-72157629165974141/Remember these seats might look a little different than Greyhound's Patriot PT seats (this bus was built in 2010).

This flickr user has lots of pictures showing interiors of different Sound Transit buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Thanks, yeah, that's the same guy's album I found but had trouble finding Patriot PT. They do look quite different from Greyhound's Patriot PT, Greyhound's is more curved around the angles. The bottom of Greyhound's has a curved footrest too.

 

[rickycourtney]

Thanks, yeah, that's the same guy's album I found but had trouble finding Patriot PT. They do look quite different from Greyhound's Patriot PT, Greyhound's is more curved around the angles. The bottom of Greyhound's has a curved footrest too.

These seats are a lot newer than Greyhound's... and Amaya has updated the design over the years so that's why they look different. The Patriot PT seats are very comfortable on these buses (which can rattle quite a bit at freeway speeds). The seats also have that curved footrest and they recline a bit. But of the 56 seats on these buses, only 24 are Patriot PT... the rest are bench seats (with extra plush padding), folding jump seats or the weird quasi-bucket seats in the articulation.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well yeah, now you know why every Greyhound rider is always going to biased about the 102DL3: Because they have the most comfortable seats with extra legroom to boot, and a fast, smooth, quiet ride.

I'm back in Reno now and I came home on #86316, a 2010 MCI D4505, with the Detroit 60-H EGR engine. Aw man, so much better than #86544! Almost missed the bus due to events in Downtown Sacramento causing detours, but I got on the bus and found the seat pair right behind the driver empty. No empty seat pairs unless I went really far back, the bus was packed with people because I was riding Schedule 8308, with connecting service to SLC, Denver, and beyond. Used to make an extra stop in Truckee, with the new schedule, that is no more. Cab ride time!

The "Tough Guy" air freshener was not active in the lavatory, which I used before departure. I saw the air freshener in #86544, it was also on this bus. But the bus didn't smell bad at all, smelled just like outside air, restroom (aka lavatory), smelled just like a restroom, not a great smell but not bad either, restroom clean and undamaged. Bus departed while I was in the restroom, heard the beeping and the turbo, got thrown around as the bus started backing and again as it pulled forward. But not rough anymore after we cleared the terminal maneuvers.

Now the Premier LS still sucks, but at least Seat #2 right behind the driver did not sag. Ride was much smoother and quieter than the other bus. Only a tiny bit rougher than the X3-45, IIRC, about the same as the 102DL3. After pulling out of the terminal of course (noting myself thrown around the lavatory). Driver made an extra stop in Colfax, said he needed to use the restroom. Saw him smoking outside with a bearded passenger. Still made it to Reno on-time.

Very skilled driver, though apparently he made an effort to act like a villain from a spy film. He was a square-set middle-aged white man with a clean-shaven head (very clean shaven indeed!), no facial hair, a pair of sunglasses, and a very tidy Greyhound uniform with leather shoes. Yeah, you should've him, didn't look like much of a bus driver, more like Telly Savalas as "Ernst Blofeld"! Also, he forgot to make announcements out of Sacramento, but for some reason many passengers used the seat belts anyway and there was no smoking or bad, loud behavior on the bus at all. Maybe I missed the announcements while I was being thrown around the restroom. :giggle:

In conclusion, I'll just say the D4505 is a really inconsistent bus compared to the 102DL3. The 86300-series seems much superior to the 86500-series. The bus to Denver today was D4505 #86334 with a HUGE "100 YEARS" badge, wouldn't be so bad riding it to Denver if not for the Premier LS. Also saw #7111, a rehabbed G4500 in Lot. Probably tomorrow's morning departure to Salt Lake City? Sorry, not much photos from the Reno Terminal, other than the highly-decorated #6334. But lots of photos from my "cab ride" in #86316!

Attached a sample photo to keep you guys occupied before I upload to Flickr. Good thing is, the driver let me take all the photos I wanted. Now I'm getting some sleep!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well yeah, now you know why every Greyhound rider is always going to biased about the 102DL3: Because they have the most comfortable seats with extra legroom to boot, and a fast, smooth, quiet ride.

I'm back in Reno now and I came home on #86316, a 2010 MCI D4505, with the Detroit 60-H EGR engine. Aw man, so much better than #86544! Almost missed the bus due to events in Downtown Sacramento causing detours, but I got on the bus and found the seat pair right behind the driver empty. No empty seat pairs unless I went really far back, the bus was packed with people because I was riding Schedule 8308, with connecting service to SLC, Denver, and beyond. Used to make an extra stop in Truckee, with the new schedule, that is no more. Cab ride time!

The "Tough Guy" air freshener was not active in the lavatory, which I used before departure. I saw the air freshener in #86544, it was also on this bus. But the bus didn't smell bad at all, smelled just like outside air, restroom (aka lavatory), smelled just like a restroom, not a great smell but not bad either, restroom clean and undamaged. Bus departed while I was in the restroom, heard the beeping and the turbo, got thrown around as the bus started backing and again as it pulled forward. But not rough anymore after we cleared the terminal maneuvers.

Now the Premier LS still sucks, but at least Seat #2 right behind the driver did not sag. Ride was much smoother and quieter than the other bus. Only a tiny bit rougher than the X3-45, IIRC, about the same as the 102DL3. After pulling out of the terminal of course (noting myself thrown around the lavatory). Driver made an extra stop in Colfax, said he needed to use the restroom. Saw him smoking outside with a bearded passenger. Still made it to Reno on-time.

Very skilled driver, though apparently he made an effort to act like a villain from a spy film. He was a square-set middle-aged white man with a clean-shaven head (very clean shaven indeed!), no facial hair, a pair of sunglasses, and a very tidy Greyhound uniform with leather shoes. Yeah, you should've him, didn't look like much of a bus driver, more like Telly Savalas as "Ernst Blofeld"! Also, he forgot to make announcements out of Sacramento, but for some reason many passengers used the seat belts anyway and there was no smoking or bad, loud behavior on the bus at all. Maybe I missed the announcements while I was being thrown around the restroom. :giggle:

In conclusion, I'll just say the D4505 is a really inconsistent bus compared to the 102DL3. The 86300-series seems much superior to the 86500-series. The bus to Denver today was D4505 #86334 with a HUGE "100 YEARS" badge, wouldn't be so bad riding it to Denver if not for the Premier LS. Also saw #7111, a rehabbed G4500 in Lot. Probably tomorrow's morning departure to Salt Lake City? Sorry, not much photos from the Reno Terminal, other than the highly-decorated #86334. But lots of photos from my "cab ride" in #86316!

Attached a sample photo to keep you guys occupied before I upload to Flickr. Good thing is, the driver let me take all the photos I wanted. Now I'm getting some sleep!