Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

But Greyhound will never order the Torino Standard, because it has a terrible narrow headrest: http://www.amaya-astron.com.mx/EN/products/coach_seats/torino_standard/.

I was talking about the Torino G Plus with also comes with a new seat belt system: http://www.amaya-astron.com.mx/EN/products/coach_seats/torino_g_plus/.

But I think Greyhound would order the Torino VIP because Greyhound Canada ordered that seat for years and the Premier LS must be just as or more expensive because US labor coats are higher than in Mexico. If only they would stop their obsession with the sagging Premier LS. Seats must cost much less than that $500,000 bus and if you are going to buy a new bus you might as well fit better seats at the same cost as the current ones Greyhound is ordering, or a little more than the Torino Standard.

More comfort in the same space for the same weight = more profits in the long run.

Edit: Torino G Plus does have more recline than the VIP, Standard, or A2-TEN. So that might actually be very comfortable, especially with the new seat belt system.

 

[rickycourtney]

Greyhound has been ordering the terrible Premier & Premier LS for years now... so never say never when it comes to buying a bad product.

That being said I've also sat in the Torino Standard... and I thought it was a very comfortable seat. Those pictures don't really do the headrest justice... they're about the same size as the headrest on the Patriot with the adjustable headrest.

Also the Torino G Plus looks like a good seat too (especially the version in leather) but I'm not a fan of those adjustable seatbelts... they look like they would be uncomfortable.

Really anything is better than those horrible Premier & Premier LS seats.

 

[rickycourtney]

One of my biggest complaints about intercity bus travel is that almost all the companies do something I despise... charge stupid fees for booking a trip.

BoltBus charges a $1.50 "transaction fee" for booking a reservation and there is an additional $3 "booking fee" for making a reservation over the phone.

Megabus charges a $1.50 "booking fee" for making a reservation online.

Greyhound charges a $2.50 "will call fee" to book a reservation online and pick up a printed ticket at the station and get this... they charge a $2.50 "booking fee" if you book a reservation online and print my own ticket at home. That's right... you get to pay to use your own ink and paper. The only way to avoid Greyhound's fees is to book a reservation online, go down to a 7-Eleven and pay with cash.

I get that there are charges associated with accepting credit cards (typically 2.3 - 2.5%) but those fees should be included the price of a ticket (especially since Greyhound should be encouraging passengers to be paying by cars).

In my opinion, one of the best things that happened for customers in the past couple years was that airlines are now required to publish fares including all taxes and fees. It would be nice if that rule was extended to all transportation.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

If Greyhound pays more than 1% on credit transaction fees, I'd like to meet the head of their financing department so I can laugh at him.

 

[rickycourtney]

If Greyhound pays more than 1% on credit transaction fees, I'd like to meet the head of their financing department so I can laugh at him.

Right, what I should have said was "no more than 2.5%". To my understanding, that's on the higher end of transaction fees charged when no card is present.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I pay 2.75, but I'm a tiny business with a very short track record who does less than 250k in credit cards a year. Greyhound is something else entirely.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That Will Call fee is indeed annoying. I wish they would get rid of it or include it in the fare. They even charge you $2.50 for a Free Ticket to Anywhere through Road Rewards.

But then again, how do I argue against $4 Reno-San Francisco? That fee is per-transaction, so if I take my regular travel buddy with me and ride round-trip, it's not that bad. I could do $18.50 for all the transportation.

OK, I don't know what Greyhound is thinking right now, but they dropped Sacramento-Portland fares. That route is already packed, but they dropped the minimal fare from $69 to $51.50. Now 1446 probably going to get sold out daily. 1436 and 1440 are already sold out daily. Today's 1446, 1436, and 1440 are all sold out or almost sold out on that segment, and it's a Tuesday, not even close to the weekend.

 

[rickycourtney]

I agree that the "will call fee" is a pain in the ass... but at least I can rationalize it (they're paying to have staff at the stations and you're consuming ticket stock and a ticket jacket).

But my gripe is that at the moment if you buy a Greyhound ticket on your smartphone you have to pick it up at will call... drivers can't scan tickets on your phone yet. So passengers who buy their ticket on their phones are forced to pay a fee (or walk down to a 7-Eleven). And if you buy your ticket on your home computer you have to pay the same fee to print out your own ticket.

Essentially you're penalizing who could be "better" customers... ones who can buy tickets online.

Is there a fee for buying a ticket from an agent at a station with my credit card? I'm not talking about the penalty from purchasing a "day-of" ticket... but say I went down to the station today to buy a ticket from Seattle to Portland on Wednesday, 8/20. The "web only" fare is $10, I'm guessing I'd be charged the "advanced purchase" fare of $26.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I don't know about that, but anyway, the "Will Call Fee" used to be called "Facility Fee", so I think it's meant to pay for the bus stations and station employees. But I know you don't pay a few if you buy walk-up with cash, because the walk-up fares are so huge they would pay for the station already.

So basically Greyhound is trying to pay for the station, one way or another. Yeah, $26 is $16 more than $10, so you still save with Web Only. I think that's the logic. In Reno, buy a walk-up to San Francisco, have fun paying $33.50, or book online and pay $4, add booking fee, book round-trip, and take some others, neutralize it the best you can. I don't know what else to say. It's like those stupid Premier seats, you can sit on them and sag or put a pillow and be much more comfortable.

If I were Greyhound's CEO, I would take away that fee, charge $6 minimum to San Francisco instead, and replace the seats, but I'm not Greyhound's CEO. And with $6, you would still lose money, so nothing's perfect.

 

[rickycourtney]

Those $6 fares are loss leaders.

Greyhound gets a few "bargain hunters" in the door on a new "Greyhound Express" route. In my opinion, Greyhound is hoping that these people who might not otherwise take a bus... try it... like it... and recommend it to their friends.

Greyhound can make up the lost money by charging high fares for last minute tickets, purchased at the station. In my opinion, there will always be a segment of Greyhound's passengers who will buy those tickets.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Except Sacramento-Portland which is sold out every day. But Sacramento-Portland tickets start at $51.50 which should be enough to yield a profit with those packed loads.

I said $4 tickets, not $6 tickets, but there is the $2.50 fee.

Edit: SAC-PUT probably has the richest clientele simply because it's sold out before the suspicious passengers even get to the station.

 

[rickycourtney]

Either way those are promotional fares. It's much the same as BoltBus and their "Bolt for a Buck" fares. Greyhound Express also promotes fares "as low as $1."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If they are promotional fares, there are no ads promoting them.

Anyway, right now I think Greyhound's biggest problem is those sagging Premier LS seats. Yeah, the photography ban is annoying, but it's unenforceable and rarely enforced. Yeah, the booking fee isn't desirable, but the fares are cheap enough that it doesn't really matter. Yeah, the White G sucks, but they are getting rebuilt ASAP. Yeah, there's bad passengers, but most passengers are not and the driver dish out the punishment as an example.

So the biggest problem is sagging new seats. Greyhound, please, please, please fix the seats! Add a new bottom cushion or order something else to replace them.

 

[rickycourtney]

I'm not sure I agree that the Premier "sags". I agree that the seat cushion is very flat (not angled up like most seats). My biggest complaint is that the bottom seat cushions are hard as a rock and the back cushion feels like it's going straight up. It has no lumbar support and it doesn't cradle you during turns.

But no matter what you think is wrong with it... we all agree it's a horrible seat.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Uh, the Premier LS on #86307 was definitely sagging. The center part of the seat bottom had a massive dip in it. I believe that is sagging, however that may not apply to all Premier LS.

 

[rickycourtney]

Two more thoughts:

I've seen quite a few complaints online about how there's still no way to track arrival information on buses. Even at the station level it seems that agents just know that the bus is late... they don't know HOW late it is. I'd love to see Greyhound put some sort of tracking systems on their buses so customers can track them in realtime. At the very least drivers should be calling into dispatch when they make a stop to report their current delays so passengers can be updated.

Greyhound's standard seating for terminals is pretty bad too. It's hard metal and it has strange placement of armrests. So not only are they uncomfortable... it's possible for people to sleep across several seats. It would be nice to see them swap them out with something that at least has a little padding.

 

[railiner]

Hey guys, so I found this Las Vegas Bus Sales vid of a 1995 MC-12 for sale, with NO rest in the engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaU8zuL8gSc. And only 80,000 miles? I'm thinking it's either a scam or it's not an ex-Greyhound MC-12, but very few MC-12's very built for other operators.

Also, I found that old restored MC-7 Richfield has: https://www.flickr.com/photos/busboys/6154820020/in/faves-95851032@N07/.

It has this interior: https://www.flickr.com/photos/busboys/4204420443/in/faves-95851032@N07/.

Looks nice and cozy to me, more comfortable-looking than a new Greyhound with the sagging seats. And this is the only time I've seen nice curtains on a bus, all the other ones I've seen have been intrusive and dirty, more problems than rewards. Did all the old MC-7's have that interior?

Also, regarding TV's on Greyhound buses, I think they made the right choice not having them, sleeping is quite easy right now with no running lights at all inside, complete natural lighting at night. Flashing TV's would be a major annoyance, sound or not. Even a GPS map would be annoying. It would only be useful in the daytime. It would be useful to play announcements and safety procedures. But completely pointless and annoying when the bus is already cruising down the highway. So Greyhound might as well save the money like they are right now, and not add them to buses.

Great photo links!

That MC-7 looks almost pristine......

Those particular seats are made by National. I have gone cross-country in them, and I can tell you, they are very comfortable...the contours, which are not quite apparent in the photo, fit me like a glove. At that time, both National and American suppied seats to GMC and MCI buyer's. Eagle's had their own proprietary seats, which featured adjustable back, head, and footrests.....

There was one 'bad' seat design in that erra...Greyhound ordered a series of MC-7's that had "theater-style" seat cushions that sprung up when not occupied. The spring housing between the seats was very uncomfortable, if you happened to 'straddle' a bit over it. I suppose it was intended to make cleaning the floors easier, and to prevent someone from 'hogging' two seats....just placing a coat or other lightweight object on it would not hold it down....

There were also a series of MC-5A and early MC-7's that had the 'loose pillowtop' headrests, that allowed you to adjust them somewhat vertically....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Dispatch is in Dallas, all in Dallas, Greyhound Canada dispatch is all in Burlington. Drivers are not supposed to call in to dispatch while driving. I don't even think Greyhound buses are equipped for long-distance radio transmissions. Even airplanes don't do such transmissions. Most Greyhound drivers don't even have or don't know how to use a smartphone. Communication is virtually nonexistent outside of the stations. Once a bus leaves the station, the driver is on his own until he reaches the next station. Of course he can call emergency services in the case of a breakdown, but not while driving.

Greyhound prohibits GPS use for fear of misguidance and/or distracting the driver.

Basically, drivers are trained to drive, take care of passengers, drive very well, and do nothing else but drive. They are not even trained to refuel a bus even though most know how to do that anyway.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm more interested in the seats right now. So National used to make great seats.....well they don't have a seat page on their website right now. I think they offer the 4210S and 4210A, both of which have tapered headrests. You know how much I dislike that kind of headrests, but the 4210S looks quite comfortable.

Here is a 102EL3 with National 4210S: http://www.lasvegasbussales.com/coach-buses-for-sale/used-bus-1998-mci-102el3-54-passenger-charter-bus-with-rei-entertainment-system-c60392.

I know Greyhound does not use them. Anyone know if they are comfortable or not?

Yeah, I'm cruising around Las Vegas Bus Sales. They have lots of nice photos of videos of buses.

Edit: It appears Torino VIP is no longer offered in the US due to lack of containment. Freedman and Suburban bothoffer the Torino G Plus instead. That is also the standard seating on new MCI D4505 and J4500 equipment.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Everybody knows how to use a smartphone- 5 year olds can usually pick them up and figure them out.

 

[rickycourtney]

You're making it harder than it needs to be. Since the dawn of the railroads conductors have been relaying the status of their trains to dispatch. First though telegraph offices, then telephones at staffed stations and then automated touchtone systems. Now there is a device on the locomotive that uses GPS to determine its location and sends that back to Amtrak's Consolidated National Operations Center in Delaware.

That's what I mean when I said GPS. GPS simply tells you where you are in the world... a navigation system is totally different (and I understand why Greyhound doesn't want drivers to have navigation systems).

But reporting delays can be as simple as having the driver pick up a phone to call dispatch when they arrive at a station (or having an agent do it at a staffed station).

With the "long-distance" Greyhound routes... delay reporting is more important than ever.

That being said, it sounds like Greyhound already has some form of GPS tracking and every Greyhound driver will be assigned a iPhone in the next few months... now they need to find a way to communicate that data to passengers. Maybe even turn it into a nifty Google Map.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That is exactly what Greyhound does right. Every time a bus arrives, stations report status to dispatch, and dispatch reports the status to everyone. But if a bus gets stuck in bad weather between two stations, what are you going to do? And when it comes to flag stops and unstaffed stations, again, no luck.

Stations report everything, driver's don't. Greyhound indeed has a GPS tracking system for buses, in fact, they use it to monitor speeds and fire speeding Greyhound drivers. So now every Greyhound driver is not going to dare go about the speed limit more than a few mph or a few more mph for passing.

 

[rickycourtney]

Then why not post that information at stations? Bus xxxx is xxx minutes late.

Also if they have GPS tracking already installed... it's high time for them to offer a way for customers to track a bus.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I don't know if they have GPS tracking installed. But you have to remember, Greyhound stations don't even have an Arrivals/Departures board. You have to ask the ticket agent for everything.

I'm sure Greyhound will start fixing these problems after they deal with the G4500 rebuilds. And I do think they are doing complete rebuilds because of how much the buses improved. I'm thinking a full $140,000 into each G. The DL3 cost $120,000 each to rebuild, but the DL3 was never beat-to-hell like the G was.

Also, Greyhound did not cancel any order, they still have the D4505 order, but that was suspended due to deferred payments. Greyhound is either threatening MCI over the D4505 problems, or they don't have enough money.

Communications systems require time and money to set up, something Greyhound is short of right now, with all those low promo fares.

On another note, I've found a myriad of 102EL3's for sale. Greyhound didn't order these back in the day. Look at this: http://www.lasvegasbussales.com/coach-buses-for-sale/used-coach-1998-mci-102el3-luxury-tourist-bus-c60254.

They have the famous "airliner" looks and spiral staircase. I wonder why there are so many for sale right now, since not that many were built. I haven't heard about these in a long time, except that they were replaced with the Restyled J4500 in mid-2012. I rode a few in Hawaii and other place, I remember they were comfortable and smooth-riding, and always came standard with cloth velour National 4210S. So what do you guys think of this coach?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

One way to cancel an order is to stop paying for it. Believe me, in the world of business, if you have enough credit to place an order without paying in full to begin with, you have enough credit to finance it's purchase.

If Greyhound wanted more MCI D4505s and had profitable use for them, they'd have them.