Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[railiner]

Greyhound has been keeping track somewhat of schedule movements to a limited degree, going back a very long time....

Currently, at major terminal's, driver's utilize the BOSS computer's for their Load Count Entry, which when "complete", enters the entry time at that particular terminal, which then reports how many minutes late, (000L if on time), that trip is operating. That info is updated each time the entry is made enroute. It doesn't show what happens if the driver neglects to make the entry, or if delays occur at intermediate points, which can be many hours apart.

Even when I was with Greyhound, in 1971-1973, the dispatcher's used the old Greycom computer system to "O S" the schedules, via paper tapes on the ancient teletype machines.

So the system was not perfect, but was better than nothing. Back then, if a driver was delayed enroute, he would call in to notify dispatch if possible, and advise of any connecting passenger's he had aboard.

As far as the GPS....I don't know what is happening with the CADEC system lately, as they seem to have been fully or partially disabled....you don't have to "log on" in order to start most of the buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Railiner, what's your opinion of the EL3? That bus kinda disappeared and faded away into nowhere. It was all the fadwhen it first came out.

I think the D4505 order problems are two-fold. First of all, they don't have use for them right this moment. Second of all, they probably want to threaten MCI a bit because the newest 86500-series has been suffering computer and suspension problems. Not to mention Greyhound apparently doesn't like the Cummins ISX12, and would prefer Detroit 13.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

See? Even Greyhound prefers DBAG engine.

 

[railiner]

My company never ordered the "Renaissance" (EL-3)....we went from our last 102D-3 to the J4500, so I don't have much knowledge of the EL-3, other than what I've seen or read about. To me, there isn't much difference between the "E's" and the "J's"....visually, the "E" has the extra band of glass above the windshield, and different tailights, And a different instrument panel. Mechanically the "E" has the steerable tag axle, and a more complex electronic system. Other than that, I don't really know.

Personally, I strongly dislike both of them, ergonomically speaking for driving. Even after what, 13 years?....I still don't feel 'at home' in them.

I believe MCI rushed the "E" into production, apparently in an effort to save their market share that the Prevost "H", and other "Euro design" coaches was taking from them...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

See? Even Greyhound prefers DBAG engine.

True, MCI is partially-owned by DBAG. And Cummins, well Cummins engines are horrible in the D4505 by dropping 1 whole MPG compared to Detroit, Volvo, or CAT, but CAT doesn't make engines for buses anymore.

My company never ordered the "Renaissance" (EL-3)...............I still don't feel 'at home' in them.

I believe MCI rushed the "E" into production, apparently in an effort to save their market share that the Prevost "H", and other "Euro design" coaches was taking from them...

I think MCI might've rushed the E into production, but nonetheless, it was the first "airliner coach" in the market. And that spiral stairwell was something. Probably why the E was such a fad in those days, and right now, some 1998 E4500's still sell for $109,000.

 

[railiner]

Why do you call it an "airliner coach"? I agree the 'spiral' staircase is trendy, first the Prevost 'H' and now the Van Hool "C" have copied them to some extant.

Personally, I like the 'L' shape stairway, with a straight, flat dash design, much better....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I know, I prefer the good old design too, but I'm just saying the E is interesting because it was the first coach with a spiral staircase, round lavatory module, round parcel racks, round dashboard, round everything. Even the National 4210S seats are rounded.

To me, this looks like it was patterns directly after airliners: http://www.lasvegasbussales.com/coach-buses-for-sale/used-yellow-bus-1998-mci-102-el3-54-passenger-coach-c60123.

Now this E4500 interior: https://www.flickr.com/photos/flyer_901/5184008020/in/faves-95851032@N07/.

Look at those interiors! Definitely looks like a plane interior more than a bus interior.

Now this is a bus interior: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/14664633614.

I know it was probably not a great coach, but they are selling a lot of second-hands ones for $89,000 or $109,000. That's a lot of money for a fiberglass, high-deck coach that is not very liked by drivers. From a passenger perspective, they're OK to me, at least for short rides. They just feel like flying on a plane. IMO, the EL3 and the D4505 are the only good Megabus units.

 

[rickycourtney]

So to take this discussion about interiors in a totally different direction... check this company out: vonlane.com

Forget looking like like the interior of coach... this looks like like first class on an airplane (I think it's even nicer than that). I love the look love those seats (like big La-Z-Boy recliners) and I'm digging the tile backsplash in the galley and bathroom (which also has a real toilet and sink).

Even at the top price of $200 round trip it beats flying (both in comfort and time) for a trip under 4 hours.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Detroit Diesel is a fully owned subsidiary of Daimler. Further, there current products are modified Mercedes-Benz diesels much the same way current Mack engines are modified Volvos.

Although in Mack's case the move was a substantial downgrade, while in Detroits case the shelving of their GM legacy products was a massive upgrade.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Further that blue cloth interior is GORGEOUS. And looks really comfy. I remember it from some AmCal busses. NICE.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If I was a well-heeled businessman, one who could let someone else foot the bill, I would ride Vonlane. So, that's Vonlane target market. Now the H3-45 is considered "World's Most Luxurious Bus", so what do you expect? Too bad a regular-seated H3-45 isn't that great.

That blue cloth interior is Torino G Plus seating in a E4500 show coach. With the apparent demise of the Torino VIP (no longer offered by dealers), the G Plus has taken over to become the premier luxury seating in the market.

 

[rickycourtney]

They also seem to be targeting passengers on Southwest Airlines (who skew more towards the leisure market) with the promise of better amenities, equal travel times and lower prices.

Also I don't know how you can praise this coach and say the seated ones aren't that good. Mechanically they're the same bus.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They also seem to be targeting passengers on Southwest Airlines (who skew more towards the leisure market) with the promise of better amenities, equal travel times and lower prices.

Also I don't know how you can praise this coach and say the seated ones aren't that good. Mechanically they're the same bus.

What I mean to say is that it is the "World's Most Luxurious Bus" but if you give it regular seating then it is no longer luxurious and thus not that great, because its main advantage is the ability to install luxury amenities. Remember, it is not favored by drivers due to its size, height, and slow speed. It can lub lots of cargo, but even a Blue G can also do that.

Case in point:

H3-45 regular: http://www.mike-stephenson.com/buses/usacoaches/DSCN2126-0806.jpg.

102DL3 regular: http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/greyhound/d/gry_1119int.jpg.

Edit: Now you see, the 102DL3 cost less, uses less fuel, is preferred by drivers and mechanics, is tougher, goes faster, and offers the same regular amenities to passengers except for luggage capacity. Reinforcing my point that the H3-45 is good for super-luxury and freight-hauling.

By the way, Greyhound is also attacking Southwest by offering more legroom after Southwest cut legroom.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The 102DL3 is not up to current emissions standards. Fit them so that they could meet it, with SCR and all the other stuff, and it probably wouldn't perform so well.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

True, but an older H3-45 is also EPA-incompliant. And the H3-45 will never perform as well as a 102DL3 because it is MUCH taller and.

Now you put a Detroit 13 into a DL3 and that's going to perform great while meeting EPA standards. Can't say the same for a H3-45 with Volvo D13.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Volvo D13 and the Detroit/Mercedes 13liter are fairly comparable.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah I know, but the H3-45 is very, very tall. I'm sure it is very efficient at pulling mixed pax and freight, like this: http://www.barraclou.com/bus/orleans/orleans6057.jpg.

IMO, you either go for luxury, or you go freight. Otherwise, there are better coaches out there, like the Restyled J4500 which is great for charters and tours, but not as luxurious.

 

[railiner]

So to take this discussion about interiors in a totally different direction... check this company out: vonlane.com

Forget looking like like the interior of coach... this looks like like first class on an airplane (I think it's even nicer than that). I love the look love those seats (like big La-Z-Boy recliners) and I'm digging the tile backsplash in the galley and bathroom (which also has a real toilet and sink).

Even at the top price of $200 round trip it beats flying (both in comfort and time) for a trip under 4 hours.

Yes, very nice....We did discuss this line in another thread, a while back....

I wonder how they're doing....so far just the one Dallas/Austin route?

 

[rickycourtney]

Not exactly sure what the height of the coach has to do with anything... but here's the breakdown:

Model - Overall Height (Interior Height)

H3-45 - 146.25" (77")

X3-45 - 134" (80")

J4500 - 140.75" (78.25")

D4505 - 137" (78.25")

So Prevost makes both the tallest and shortest coaches and the difference is all of one foot.

Also, there are drivers that prefer manual transmissions... but no bus companies are building buses around them anymore. Maintenance prefers old engines with less electronics... but they spew out emissions.

There's no since in comparing a 15 year old bus (that is out of production) to a brand new bus.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

You are mistaken, the 102DL3 is still in production as the D4500CL (NOT the D4500CT).

Edit: Also, I meant the old H3-45 that started production in 1994.

Everyone knows the H3-45 is great for luxury, for a motorhome, for hauling cargo, and not for anything else. Yeah you can use it for charters and tours, but for that purpose, a J4500 is cheaper and with a Detroit 13, it would be more efficient, too. A J4500 costs the same as a D4505 or X3-45. The H3-45 costs more.

 

[railiner]

If you think that Volane's coaches are luxurious....take a look at what money can buy.... http://www.marathoncoach.com/coach--videos

Now if one of those was used on a line run......

 

[RichardK]

So to take this discussion about interiors in a totally different direction... check this company out: vonlane.com

Forget looking like like the interior of coach... this looks like like first class on an airplane (I think it's even nicer than that). I love the look love those seats (like big La-Z-Boy recliners) and I'm digging the tile backsplash in the galley and bathroom (which also has a real toilet and sink).

Even at the top price of $200 round trip it beats flying (both in comfort and time) for a trip under 4 hours.

Yes, very nice....We did discuss this line in another thread, a while back....

I wonder how they're doing....so far just the one Dallas/Austin route?

They have coaches on order to serve both Houston and San Antonio, starting next year. On their Facebook page, they even asked customers to suggest possible custom modifications to these buses.

Their Director of Business Development contacted me about partnering with our company for transportation needs. This is really the market they are targeting.

It seems business is picking up with them. Saturday and Sunday service has been launched along with charter services.

Yes, the published fare is $100 one way. However, they offer an early morning fare to Austin for $40 and a late night to Dallas for $75. When you open an account, there is access to some $85 fares. Included are free drinks, snacks, and computer accessories, such as mouse, flash drives,etc. for use.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If you think that Volane's coaches are luxurious....take a look at what money can buy.... http://www.marathoncoach.com/coach--videos

Now if one of those was used on a line run......

Woah, no doubt the H3-45 is well-known as the "World's Most Luxurious Bus"!

By the way, I tried to find out more about the EL3, and it seems like it was supposed to replace the DL3 in 2000. Look what happened. And the G4500 was supposed to be Greyhound's workhorse, yeah right. At least the Blue G is great and could actually be Greyhound's workhorse, if Greyhound can get more of them (which they can't, 'cause it's out of production permanently).

Edit: Right now I'm really interested to learn more about the EL3 because one moment it was all the fad, then it faded away, and now it's out of production.

 

[railiner]

Marathon, does some very nice custom work, indeed.....I believe they were the ones selected by the Secret Service to build the President's coach, although that was based on the X-3, due to its better ability to be armored (details are of course classified....).

As for the E-4500, the biggest reason MCI ended its production, was the J-4500 outsold it by far. I believe that they did incorporate some of the 'E's features into the updated 'J's...

Swadian, are you certain the J-4500 costs the same as a D-4505? I don't know, but it doesn't seem logical, to me......... :unsure:

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

......

Swadian, are you certain the J-4500 costs the same as a D-4505? I don't know, but it doesn't seem logical, to me......... :unsure:

Hey, a guy running a charter bus company, Eric Gregory, says the J4500 costs the same as the D4505. Yeah, I know. He also has a D4005 "Shorty".

I don't know what MCI was doing in the late 1990s, but guys on GTE say they told all their customers the 102DL3 would be replaced by the 102EL3 in 2000, which prompted Greyhound Canada to order 102EL3's in 1998, units that were soon relegated to charters and tours. Then MCI said they would not stop production of the DL3 due to disappointments with the EL3, until a new, cheaper replacement, the GL3, became available. Obviously, the GL3, produced as the G4500, failed miserably. But I'm thinking that, at least in the late 1990s, MCI would have offered the EL3 at the same price as the DL3 because that was supposed to be its replacement. So it would be no surprise the J4500 is offered at the same price at the D4505, given both have the same amenities before options.