Greyhound seats and fleet questions

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Ok. Quick question. Is the G4500 a regular production bus or was it made specifically for greyhound like the MC-12 mainly were? I've yet to see any running with anyone else's colors. Including charters.
 
Ok. Quick question. Is the G4500 a regular production bus or was it made specifically for greyhound like the MC-12 mainly were? I've yet to see any running with anyone else's colors. Including charters.
The G4500 was made to Greyhound's specifications, but it was a regular production bus that anyone could buy. That being said... few companies other than Greyhound and its affiliates bought the G4500. Even Greyhound bought fewer G4500 buses than MCI expected and they spent a long time trying to sell the rest of them off.
 
They were still trying to sell them off but no one was buying so they decided to scrap them instead.

Greyhound source says 446 were built for Greyhound, some more for other companies. One of those built for other companies is currently for sale, $70,000 and 740,000 miles IIRC, 55 Amaya Brasil seating, has enclosed parcel racks and video system. No wheelchair lift. Old MCI specs for the G4500 tout:

  • Back-to basics technology with outstanding styling
  • Outstanding fuel economy
  • Low maintenance costs
  • More passenger hip-to-knee room
  • Exterior scheme designed to order
Seems like Greyhound needs to raise pay in New York City because of the higher cost of living. But if they do that too much, the other drivers will get mad. And then they would have to raise fares while under pressure from Megabus price wars. Megabus does have very low average wages and crappy Van Hool equipment.

Don't know much about Bostroms but they are currently owned by Commercial Vehicle Group, the same company that owns National. A driver told me he really likes National. Don't know what Greyhound uses.

Those kids working as shouldn't be expected to do any checks on the vehicles. Even I have seen the engine compartment in person. The drivers need to do it. The turn-and-burns are the problem. The driver grabs against NYC Transit, if true, are another problem. Yes, the 1400-mile range is on paper. But like I said, on paper, do that rotation 4 times and you still have 20% fuel left. Use that 20% for idling, and it would still make it. Even if a X3-45 only does 3 283-mile rotations, that's still 450 passengers passing through in quick succession. As opposed to no more than 50 on the Reno-Salt Lake City.
 
I always thought Bostrom was its own co.

I guess every manufacturer has at least one product that bombs. Lol. At least greyhound tried to fix the problems with the G's. I thought it was only for GLI seeing as it had a G in its model. MCI obviously was wrong about low maintenance costs.

Kids was the driver's word not mine. No matter who's responsible for checking the bus it should b done every trip. Legally it's the drivers responsibility during pre and post trip inspections. That's a good way to destroy a vehicle. It also drives costs up.

I'd b afraid to ride megabus. I don't trust their buses cause I know a bunch if the double deckers have been topped.

It would depend on what the union if any that represents greyhound drivers when I comes yo pay raise to attract ny drivers. They would probably demand it a cross the board.
 
Re: GLI and other private carrier driver's jumping over to MTA.....

It's pretty tough to offer competitive wage and benefit packages, when you have to depend on your "farebox" to pay for it....as opposed to having the tax-collector as your "salesman".......

edit: of course, back in the regulation days, GL was very competitive....being a Greyhound driver, was one of the most prestigious professional driving occupation's of all. They demanded and attracted the "cream-of-the-crop" in those good old days......
 
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Greyhound drivers are part of the Amalgamated Transit Union, ATU. They would likely demand a raise across the board if Greyhound were to raise wages. Greyhound can't do that and doesn't need to do that because Greyhound sure isn't losing many drivers to transit agencies in most parts of the nation. Like RTC-Reno. The transit drivers in Reno are paid low and can't find jobs easily. Reno is poor, poor, poor. They would love to drive for Greyhound.

It's just that New York City has such a high cost of living and the wages are so high that Greyhound can't really improve its driver stock. Further problems facing Greyhound's New York City Division (NYD) include the massive amounts of short-distance frequent routes that run on turn-and-burn. Complicating things further, there's no Greyhound garage in NYD.

Without a garage, most of the ground crews are incapable of checking anything, let alone fixing anything. The drivers are supposed to do it, but Greyhound drivers there are probably some of the worst in the nation due to defections to NYC Transit. Mix in the turn-and-burns, then you have a huge problem. Short-distance buses elsewhere might be dirty, but it's got to be worse for NYD.

Greyhound might have had better maintenance in the 2009-2013 period due to having more units, but their equipment was far worse back then. They had lots of White G's, no Blue G's. They had MC-12s in very bad condition. They had 102DL3s in fair to poor condition pre-rebuild. They had a few new X3-45s, and a few 102D3s. And the few new D4505s of course, first delivered in 2010 to Chicago and Denver garages.

Megabus? Their wages are worse than Greyhound. And their equipment is worse than Greyhound. And anybody in the bus industry knows not to buy an ex-Coach USA bus.

Edit: $hit just hit the fan on Greyhound X3-45 #86073, the door wouldn't open: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=708614829222974&set=o.117755058267776&type=3&theater.
 
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Those X-3 entrance doors can be temperamental at times....Most of the time, the issue is with the electro-pneumatic operated deadbolts that won't retract enough. If you are big enough to hold the open position on the switch with your left hand, while you give the door a firm kick with your right foot, it will yield. Other times, it can be the mechanical deadbolt is hanging up a bit. The mechanical deadbolt is operated outside by a key, and on the inside, by a slide lever. The air operated deadbolt can be released by turning a release lever on the dash panel, next to the door. These have been known to fail as well at times, not releasing the air. In addition, there is another air release located in the outside compartment where the washer fluid is kept. Access to it is by opening the door, either by lifting a knob inside,near the driver's window, or outside with a key. Sometimes, the electric switches can fail, either the inside, dash control, or the outside switch.

Give me an old-fashioned non-powered door like GM Coaches used to use, thankyou.... ;)
 
Found out some possibilities what that White G out of Pittsburgh could have been running.

4407 Richmond-Cleveland
1675 New York City-Denver

Or it could have been deadheading.

Another previous video on the X3-45 #86073 showed the driver managed to kick the door open. But the next time she tried, it wouldn't budge. Eventually, the driver was forced to call for help. Nobody could really do anything from the outside because the driver was stuck inside and ended up popping the window to try and tell stranded passengers what to do, to no avail. It appears many levers, deadbolts, or switches failed. The driver was forced to call for help.

I know the MC-12 had the manual door handle. Did the 102A3 or 102C3 have it?
 
I don't think she tried popping open the washer door, and having someone turn that air release, or at least I didn't see it in the video....there is even enough space for a slender driver to slip out of that door when opened....another possibility is having someone on the outside open the wheechair lift door. I've used that to enter a coach, when the outside door could not be opened, due to the coach losing air overnight, and the door dropped down to where the curb blocked it .....in fact, I have even entered a coach that had no lift, by going thru the roof hatch.....parked another coach alongside, and went up thru its hatch, and jumped over to the other....sometimes you have to be resourceful.... ;)

As for the 102A3....the manual door handle was an option....it worked by moving it up and down, as opposed to side to side like the MC-12, and older model's....
 
Went in through the roof hatch! Was that a MCI, GMC, Eagle, or Prevost? I know some of them have curved roofs. Got to be dangerous doing it on something with a curved roof like the D4505.

I doubt that X3-45 has lost air overnight. It was actually a long-distance coach as far as I know. He said he was going to Seattle. I guess this isn't so much a maintenance issue but just an issue in general with air-operated doors. Do the D4505s have this problem as well?

I guess at this point, if the D4505 wasn't such a fuel guzzler, it would be better than the X3-45. Already got a new dashboard and steering wheel. Already has all-disc brakes. About to get LED headlights if the D4500CT already has it. I'm sure the classic interior will continue to offered and, for line-haul, is probably better than the new interior with the bright high light strip. The recessed classic central lights give it a warmer feel.

Edit: Woah, I just uploaded 3 shots to Flickr. One suddenly got 190 views. The others got only 8 views each. What the heck?
 
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Sounds like yet another reason to have a emergency release so the wheelchair lift door can be used as an exit.

Of course they'd need to find a step ladder so passengers can climb down.
 
Went in through the roof hatch! Was that a MCI, GMC, Eagle, or Prevost? I know some of them have curved roofs. Got to be dangerous doing it on something with a curved roof like the D4505.

I doubt that X3-45 has lost air overnight. It was actually a long-distance coach as far as I know. He said he was going to Seattle. I guess this isn't so much a maintenance issue but just an issue in general with air-operated doors. Do the D4505s have this problem as well?

I guess at this point, if the D4505 wasn't such a fuel guzzler, it would be better than the X3-45. Already got a new dashboard and steering wheel. Already has all-disc brakes. About to get LED headlights if the D4500CT already has it. I'm sure the classic interior will continue to offered and, for line-haul, is probably better than the new interior with the bright high light strip. The recessed classic central lights give it a warmer feel.

Edit: Woah, I just uploaded 3 shots to Flickr. One suddenly got 190 views. The others got only 8 views each. What the heck?
That was on an old H3-41. The MCI roof hatches cannot be opened from the outside, although, I believe the newest model's may, if they have gone to the same type that the Prevost's have....a combination ventilation and emergency exit that protrude above the roof. The older MCI's have a flush mounted hatch that is impossible to open from the outside.

The J4500's have an issue with their outside door switches either not working, or getting stuck in the open or close position....seems that the rubber weather seal sometimes get breached and the switches short out or corrode.....

The air dump lever under the dash seems more reliable than the rotary type used on the Prevost's.....
 
Sounds like yet another reason to have a emergency release so the wheelchair lift door can be used as an exit.

Of course they'd need to find a step ladder so passengers can climb down.
Good point.....

If you open the lower wheelchair door, as well, you can use the parked lift, and the bottom of the hatch as a kind of ladder, as long as you are relatively agile....
 
I believe the passengers can jump out the wheelchair lift door in the event on an emergency. They can already jump out of the windows. The decks of most motorcoach are 4-6 feet high. Jumping out straight would be enough to avoid spraining an ankle. Better than getting burned to death.

Note that they are two types of lift doors in use, swinging and sliding. The 102DL3, 102EL3, E4500, G4500, and J4500 have swinging. The D4505 and H3-45 have sliding. Some of the X3-45s have sliding but I'm not sure if all have sliding.

There's also the issue of the one-sided red handles, which I still believe is deficient.

What would you guys like to see Greyhound order next?

Edit: H3-45 actually has swinging.
 
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John, my point is that the wheelchair door can not be opened from the inside on any motorcoach. I think that's a bad design. There should be some sort of emergency door release on the inside of the bus. That would give a big, easy escape route for passengers in the event of an emergency.
 
Most drivers don't seem to like driving transit. At least else where in the country. Thru usually prefer to drive a coach. What does greyhound pay? I looked into them several years ago but their avg pay was only 25,000 or 30,000 per year at the time. For someone in NYC that's pretty much minimum wage.
 
Yeah, they should make that possible from the inside. It would probably be easier for the swinging doors than the sliding doors, because sliding doors move completely out of the entryway so that someone from the inside could not get leverage all the way.

Greyhound driver wages start at $17/hour and $37,000/year. Quite low for starting. But drivers that know how to "play" the extra board can earn $55,000 their first year. Wages go up to $88,000/year for the best senior drivers that drive fixed daily routings instead of waiting on call/bidding. The first year is said to be really tough for recruits. All extra board and around-the-clock on call driving. Including holidays and weekends. This shows Greyhound's driver hierarchy that is immediately unfavorable to NYD drivers and less favorable to short-distance drivers.

Transit drivers in Nevada have very low wages. I think the best commercial drivers in Reno drive for Greyhound. Exactly the opposite in New York City.
 
Yeah, not good for NYC drivers. Especially if they live in the city. Why go yo greyhound and put up with all that when you cam make more money and have less to worry about. Reno makes more then we do. One of my co workers lived out there and tried to get hired. They were paying almost $10 an hour more then us. We are only getting $12.30 per hour. The other contractor here only pays $10.50 per hour.

Ad for sliding doors, it can take about as much leverage to open as a swinging door.all depends on how stiff the hinges on a swinging door and rollers on a sliding door are. It also depends on what kind of grip if any you can get on a sliding door without a handle.
 
The problem with clearance is that if your don't have much clearance anyway, you probably shouldn't escape out that door. And if you don't have clearance, you can't use the wheelchair lift anyway.

A problem with the sliding door is that if you have part of the rail bent in an accident, then the door wouldn't open, it would get stuck. In an accident, it would be easier to simply open the swinging door in one brisk motion than to pull it, though all that depends on the exact door.

As I take, if they worry that much about safety, then they ought to get window escape bars mandatory first and get rid of the little red handles which are no OK in motorcoaches because of the parcel racks and high-back seats, which prevent the passenger from reaching over a seat back to grab the red handle. It's OK for transit but they shouldn't have plopped a transit escape into a motorcoach without thinking.

Of course the sages aren't good for NYD drivers but what is Greyhound going to do? They raise wages, great, union gets mad and asks everywhere to be raised.

Anyways, here's an old timetable for those that are interested: https://www.flickr.com/photos/103688802@N02/15507739706/sizes/l.

Very interesting local timetable from Pennsylvania.

The D4505 vs X3-45 debate that is raging within Greyhound seems to be going nowhere. Neither seem to have an advantage over the other, while Greyhound stalls and resorts to running the hell out of their existing X3-45s and White G4500s. Not so much the 102DL3 or D4505 because those don't do much turn-and-burns.
 
I really have to agree with Swadian. This red handles have to go. Not everyone can reach them and they don't hold the Windows closed right either. At least from a transit bus driver point of view. There has been many times I had to stop and foreclose a window that popped open cause the handles don't stay latched. On my bus ride home from Pittsburgh on Sunday the G4500 I was on had the red handles. I purposely sat in the aisle seat because I don't trust them. Also. Those handles ate harder to pull down then the bars are.

Greyhound doesn't need wage wars rite now. At some point things will work out and they will b able to get the better drivers around NYC again.
 
One way carrier's that can, get around the living expense problem at NYC, is to have none, or few driver's home-based there...

They work out of the "away" base, and depending on the distance, either turnaround the same day, or after a rest at a hotel or the dorm. Now as has been discussed here, that has been expanded to the buses....the buses too, are based "away", and turnaround at NYC. The price of real estate has always been bad in The City, but lately it has been astronomical....too expensive to operate a parking or servicing garage for buses.

My company's driver's that come to NYC, are based mainly in Kingston or Albany, and some in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Montreal, Gloversville, and Oneonta.

The Buffalo, Rochester, and Montreal driver's stayover at a hotel, the rest turnaround. There are only a few based in NYC.....

Our garages are in Kingston and Albany. We clean them out at the terminal in NYC, and send them back. The ones coming in on the longer trips like Toronto and Montreal, will sometimes go over to the Academy garage in Hoboken for full servicing.
 
I see Greyhound's doing the same thing or at least trying to, except having more trouble due to their large scale of operations. They are also turning-and-burning out of NYD. Problem is, Greyhound's garage at Atlantic City is poorly placed now that some of the casinos are closing down. The garage at Philadelphia has much better prospects. I'm not sure if they still have the garage in Boston.

Greyhound definitely shouldn't risk another battle with the ATU and a major driver strike at this point. Back in 1983, that's what sent Greyhound into a downward spiral that ended in the 1990 bankruptcy (following debt and a second major strike).

If the prices of real estate are astronomical in NYC, Greyhound should really consider hiring more drivers from Philadelphia, which also has a garage. If you look through recent Greyhound complaints, you'll see that very few involve Reno. Reno has generally laid-back operations, no tight turnarounds, no mass driver defections. I guess that's one reason why I'm having lots of good Greyhound experiences here. Sure, the White G's were horrible when they dominated Reno-San Francisco before October 2013, but now the D4505s are doing a good job of attracting and keeping customers.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to see what Greyhound orders next to wipe out those White G's and increase capacity to combat turn-and-burns. Even if drivers are based from Philly, things will still go bad if Greyhound doesn't have enough equipment to operate properly without committing White G's.

Greyhound has been forced to sell its Shorty 102D3s to combat overbooking. #3402, an ex-US unit that went to Greyhound Canada Vancouver Island ops, was just sold for an unknown price to an unknown customer, with over 1,800,000 miles on it.
 
Here's an idea for Greyhound and the D4505: order them with Cummins ISL9 engines. They offer only 330hp but might counter the problem of high fuel consumption that has become one of the biggest problems for the D4505.

The D4500CT with CAT C13 ACERT actually did well, getting 6.67 mph average on-highway during testing.
 
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