Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[mightyjoe1201]

After the horror stories I've seen on here about the white Gs I hope nothing happens to the bus I'm supposes to get later. I don't want any chance of getting one. I can't believe greyhound let then run in such horrible shape as long as they did.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Looks like I may b getting blue G number 7198. They just moved it from the gate that I pick up my bus from. Sign showed NYC. Hope it's a good bus if I do get it. Most if what I've been seeing here are X3-45's. On the outside they look like they are in good shape. No dents or anything.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Blue G's have lots of legroom. #7029 was the only Blue G I've ridden so far. It was comfortable and much better than the White G. The White G's were crap and they really need to get rid of all of them. Then again, it seems like Greyhound is slow to act. The G's were built 2001-2003. In 2004, Greyhound tried to fix the issues and asked MCI to make them in Winnipeg (they were made in Sahagun, Mexico), but MCI Winnipeg found they could not be assembled. Then Greyhound tried to replace then with Van Hool C2045s for cheap, but during tests, the C2045s were barely any better than the White G. Then Greyhound put the G's through massive overhauls at high cost, but the repairs didn't really fix anything except preventing the tag axle from falling off (which happened to a two-month-old G). Greyhound ridership was at an all-time low due to the G problems, and Greyhound was broke, so they gave up on the G and kept running them, with no money for replacements.

It ended being the DL3 that pulled Greyhound out of financial trouble and facilitated the comeback they are currently making.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Ad they say, oldies but goodies. I know for a lot of us they aren't that old but still. I think they May have been one of the last of the great MCI buses built. From what I've heard from my boss and the other bus co our city uses as a contractor for the city buses, the newest models aren't as good of quality. Actually, the one 102DL3 my boss owned he hated. He preferred the MC-9's and older.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Must have been an early-model 102DL3, 1992-1994. They had "mid-frame problems". MCI extended their classic platform-integral semi-monocoque structure to 45'5". Moved the HVAC, batteries, and fuel tank to the middle, also introduced the new Detroit 60 engine. Testing started in 1988 with a 8V92TA, I believe. When production started in 1992, not everything was worked out yet. The 8V92TA was offered until 1994. The 1995 model year was a great improvement and was not much changed until the 2004 model year when MCI cut quality due to financial problems.

Some of the quality cuts included lessening of rivets and later expanded to thinner bumpers, etc.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Don't know what year the bus was but I do know it's still running around on charters and tours. The other city contractor bought it off my boss when he gave up the charters and tours side of his co. He is old school and would rather an older mechanical bus then anything with a computer.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

This is not going to b a fun trip. One, we got a jerk for a driver he was actually yelling at everyone. He even tried to say that federal law states bags must be in the overheads only. Nothing in seats or under seats. I know he's wrong there. Plus, one of the passengers that reboarded said it smelled like carp. Litterally. The seats a are not the greatest. The girl across from me has a broken seat next to the window.. maintenance did a bad job of cleaning the bus other then spraying some kind of air freshener and maybe cleaning the restroom.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

I did get blue G number 7198.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Ok, first pic is of the side if a seat.it says FAINSA on it. Are any of you familiar with these seats?

Took a quick pic if the inside before the driver could say something. Besides being very thorough about what to do in an emergency, including how all exits work, he Tod us all picture taking was against greyhound policy and he would take the camera. Don't trust him.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Dang, I guess not all Blue G's are so great! I thought those seats were made by Amaya, I had no idea they were FAINSA. They're a manufacturer from Spain that makes a lot of train seats. No idea how their seats are or what models they have. Well, the floor seems to be clean enough. Which are the dirty parts?

The White G always had a weird plastic smell and they would spray air freshener to cover up the smell. However, the smell was not present on my only Blue G ride #7029, except for a slight hint of plastic and gasoline, even though it burns diesel, not gasoline.

Yeah, that driver is a jerk if he said that. Man, some of those Eastern drivers seem to have a grudge against everybody. Even Kit didn't say that, he just said no bags should be blocking the aisle in case someone at night wanted to use the restroom and tripped since no lights are on after the door closes. Also, the driver of #7029 was nice, he let me take all the pictures I wanted, he said he didn't care.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

There's dust and dirt and pieces of paper along most of the aisle.

The seats or not really the most comfortable. They are narrower then the ones on the DL3 I came out on. They also don't come forward enough. At least for me. I feel like I'm leaning back further then I'm comfortable with. Would have been nice if the power outlets matched up with the seats. The one for mine I have to squeeze my plug between the seat in front and the wall. And his seat isn't reclined front.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

I'm wondering something here. Either our driver doesn't like cruise control or its broke. He's still got his foot on the petal.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If he doesn't like any computers, none of the modern motorcoaches would suit him. Newest MCI without a drive-by-wire engine would be a 1996 MCI MC-12 that had the 6V92TA. 1993 MCI 102C3 is another one. That's about it.

I hope your ride goes OK. If you had ridden any of the new buses, their Premiers would have been even worse than those FAINSAs.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

Just saw blue G 7220 on side of pa turnpike being hooked to a wrecker. Not good.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

I will say this. The fainsa's are a bit hard. I'm afraid to find out just how bad the others are. Lol. Guess eventually I'll get a bus with them. Don't know when but am definitely gonna take another trip on the dog.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

I just got talking to our driver. Looks like greyhound is starting to skimp on maintenance again. He said most of the guys responsible for checking everything don't and a bus won't go in the shop unless something is hanging off. Especially in ny. He said it's worse there cause as soon as its fueled it's put back on the line. He even said most drivers don't even check anything before leaving ny. Hope its better else where in the country. He also said greyhound is trying to save money again buy going longer between services.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I guess that driver wasn't such a jerk after all. Yeah, see? He's talking about "turn and burn" as well. That's when you fuel up the bus and depart immediately. That's the problem with short-distance routes, especially frequent routes. I guess it was better when Greyhound had more White G's to spread out the miles, now that over 100 White G's have been retired or are in storage, it's really putting pressure on the short-distance coaches.

Now that you've sat in Fainsas, you know what to expect if you ever go to Europe. Lots of the trains and buses there have Fainsas or similar seats. They're based in Spain. Here's some FAINSAs on an European train: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/write/MediaUploads/IMG_0332.JPG.

I think the guys responsible for checking everything would check them if they had the time to. It's just all those turn-and-burns meaning they don't even have 1 hour to check before the motorcoach has to go.

Things seems better in the West where routes are more spread out, longer, and less frequent. In Denver I saw a DL3 going into the shop without major damage. Then again, in Denver the turnarounds are usually 12 hours long, so there's time for anything.

Well, I guess anything can break down, though, so #7220 can't exactly be blamed for being a Blue G. I'm sure Greyhound is indeed going longer between services due to the fleet shortage. Things were best 2009-2012 before the MC-12s were retired and the ADA-incompliant DL3s were sent to Canada or relegated to charters. That's why I'm saying Greyhound needs to order more units NOW if they want to meet David Leach's vision of an "elite blue fleet" by 2016.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

That's not good. The driver I had said he actually checks everything including fluids before he leaves ny. He said fluids don't even get checked there.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

You're right, it's not good. Even worse in New York City. That place has no Greyhound garage. And it has a lot of routes. Even worse, it has a lot of frequent short-distance routes. New York City probably gets more turn-and-burns than any other Greyhound origin. Likewise, it probably has the most breakdowns. Things were probably better when MC-12s dominated in that region. Now that the MC-12s have been replaced with the X3-45, things must have gotten worse. The X3-45 is a good machine but not so much in terms of durability. And your boss said computers were annoying? Well, the X3-45 has tons of computers, it even has radar and adaptive cruise braking, things the D4505 don't have, let along the old 102DL3. The 102DL3 does has drive-by-wire, and it's probably not good for turn-and-burn, being designed for long-haul grinding where ability to take damage and rack up miles would be more important that getting there and back and there and back again in the shortest period of time.

Then you have new reports of X3-45s with Volvo engine oil leaks.

I don't even know if the G4500 has cruise control, LOL. Cruise control failure was a problem on the X3-45 that Dale told me about. He was driving the brand-new X3-45 that already had broken radar, broken HVAC control, and a strap hanging off the undercarriage, but the cruise control was working. Another problem, he said, was that the driver's seat was too low. He looked like he had to lean around all the time. But many drivers love the X3-45 even though mechanics don't like it so much.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Look at this: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4286339,-98.490884,3a,18.9y,327.08h,85.01t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqWeDbrHs9cFXBNT-styzIQ!2e0.

A Valley Transit blue Van Hool C2045 at Greyhound San Antonio; they are a Greyhound subsidiary.

Also, two White G's in very poor condition, including an ex-Americanos White G, wait besides the terminal: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4292643,-98.4908945,3a,15y,178.46h,86.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHc00xe6HwDeUsEoRwe5HbA!2e0.

Lastly, we have two DL3's, another Van Hool, and another White G, all in the boarding lanes at San Antonio: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4292653,-98.4910029,3a,15y,181.89h,86.96t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNPDwe__uYWOhl7N8_1qE2A!2e0.

At Oklahoma City's new small Greyhound station, we see a single 102DL3: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Greyhound+Lines/@35.4640383,-97.4773398,3a,15y,158.95h,87.23t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWtMt9MV7XkvtLNWyfh6Uig!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b21654ecf0ace5:0x5884313c44fa955a.

At another time, there's a Jefferson D4505, a Greyhound X3-45, and a Greyhound 102DL3: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4634637,-97.4770882,3a,40.9y,348.27h,83.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDmZrsG68p9odV_hw6RrXkQ!2e0.

At Greyhound Tulsa, we find 102DL3 #6505 driving around: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1540347,-95.9860151,3a,15y,35.79h,84.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6em7QA0hejgnRlnkhbyQrw!2e0.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

To me that's bad business not having the buses checked. If they are fueling it doesn't take much to do a walk around and fluid check. When I drove truck I checked my fluids every fuel up.

Bus 7220 I saw getting put on a hook, that's not good no matter what make and model. Its expensive. Hope it's not fatal.

I don't think the driver going out to Pittsburgh used cruise either cause the retarder kept coming on. That's not always fun going ling distances with out cruise.

Its probably the make of seat that they have for the driver. For some reason some seat makers make their seats too low or where you can't move it fwd or back enough. I couldn't get a good enough look at driver seats to say who's they are. Recarro has a tendency to make seats that are either too high or too low. My bus is like that.

People start seeing and hearing about issues like you described about the X3-45's greyhound will lose riders again.

I've seen some vanhools and think they are ugly. Good thing GLI didn't go with them long term. I actually thought the white G I saw last nite was a vanhool at first cause I saw it from the back as I looked down the line of buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The White G4500 was supposed to directly combat the Van Hool C2045. It didn't work out because Greyhound condemned the G4500. If Greyhound had ordered the C2045 in large numbers, it's likely they would have condemned the C2045 as well, and that model would have died. The Van Hool kind of got away with it because its only major operator is Megabus, and Megabus cares more about dirt cheap than quality. They also got Cummins/ZF powertrains, one of the worst combos available.

The guy that's doing the fueling is often either a janitor, baggage handler, or the driver. If he's the driver, he should do a fluid check. If he doesn't, then shame on him. If it's the janitor or baggage handler, I doubt those guys know how to do any check. Last time in Reno, I saw Blue G #7151 getting refueled. The janitor was doing the refueling while the driver was walking around checking stuff. Thankfully, that Blue G was a Denver-based unit, and had the entire day to wait in Reno.

Some of the short-haul buses don't even get refueled until the end of the day. Like the notorious New York City-Philadelphia-Atlantic City-New York City rotation. That rotation is 283 miles. The Volvo D13-powered X3-45 has a range of 1,425 miles. On paper, it could do 4 of those rotations and still have 20% fuel left. That would be up to 600 passengers passing through transit-style. No refueling. No cleaning. No nothing. And 30-minute turnarounds. Solution? Either use the stored White G's awaiting scrapping, or buy more units. Neither of which Greyhound is doing right now.

On #52672, are you sure it was the retarder that kept coming or the engine brake? Greyhound driver in Colorado that dealt with the unruly old hippie told me they use Jacobs Engine Brakes.

What's your favorite driver's seat? National? ISRI?

 

[rickycourtney]

I can't fathom why a driver wouldn't check fluid levels as a part of their pre-check walkaround inspection. Sounds like drivers probably aren't even doing those inspections. Low fluid levels could lead to an engine fire.

Drivers need to feel empowered. If the spot something majorly wrong they should be able to get it be fixed before starting their trip. If they spot a minor problem they should feel like if it's reported... it will be fixed in an appropriate amount of time.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, I know, I don't know what's going on the New York City with their drivers though. The drivers here in Reno do pre-trip checks all the time. On NYC Transit Forums, I heard of a driver grab between NYC Transit and Greyhound. The following information has no citation and cannot be confirmed. On that forum, it was said Greyhound driver recruits were not joining Greyhound after hearing of better starting pay and benefits from NYC Transit. Greyhound is thus forced to recruit worse drivers than NYC Transit, while their existing drivers defect to NYC Transit as well. It appears this is a major problem because the worse drivers might skip pre-trip checks.

To make matter worse, some rotations out of New York City and surrounding cities have only 30 minutes to turn around, which is often no enough to do anything. It's only enough unload, load, and drive away.

As for Joe's driver, he said he checks everything, right? But he's driving a long-distance bus. Not a short-distance bus, which is the majority out of New York City, and which seems to be the main troublemakers in Greyhound's fleet. Now, he said "fluids don't even get checked there". So does that mean the drivers out of New York City don't check fluids, or is it the ground people that's not checking fluids?

 

[mightyjoe1201]

On 52672, I didn't realize they had actual Jake's. It sounded more like a ******** but I'm not used to hearing Jake's on a bus. Lol. So yeah, it was the Jake's coming on.

As for driver seats I'd have to say bostrom is about the best. At least for trucks. They are comfortable and have a wide range in each direction. I know them and a few others do offer low profile seats. Its usually drivers take all the air out of the seat suspension anyway that get them.

The driver did make a comment that the "kids" probably don't even know what the inside of the engine compartment looks like.

On paper is one thing. Real work is different. On paper that range is 1400 miles but that don't include idle time or any other factors. And shorter distances and stop and go use more fuel anyway.