"Lynchburger" Beats Projections

[Big Iron]

(I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!)

Fast Flying Lynchburger?

Since Lynchburg is the home of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, perhaps the Liberty Flame or the Lynchburg Flame, or maybe the Falwell Flame. Or maybe just the Jerry Falwell. Sure, it would get a lot of liberals' panties in a bunch, but it might get a number of young Religious Right Republicans to support Amtrak.

OTOH, to support the other school there, call it the Lynchburg Hornet.

It was the Liberty University students that voted in mass for the canidate that defeated Amtrak champion Sharron Valentine.

Did they oppose Valentine because of her support for Amtrak, or because of her support for liberal positions (assuming she had them) on issues such as abortion, homosexuality, military spending, etc.?

My understanding of Liberty University is that it has two litmus test issues -- views on abortion and gay rights -- which determine the school's not-so-subtle "endorsement" to its student body. The university then cancels all classes on Election Day and hires a fleet of buses to take students to polls after offering them voting guides (since many of them are not local).

The issue is not unique to Liberty -- the issue of university students organizing and voting at school, where they are less familiar with local issues and will not remain in the voting district to be represented by whomever they vote for beyond graduation. But Liberty is (1) quite large, and more able to overwhelm locals in election turnout than many schools (I have the sense that most large universities are split up across multiple districts so in no district do students come close to out-representing locals, while in Liberty's case, districts are not drawn this way to the same degree as in most places), and (2) rather unique in the degree to which the university administration facilitates -- almost mandates -- students to vote locally. Basically, the university itself tries to swing elections in its favor so local policies favor the university administration's goals, and because they have an enormous student body essentially "at their disposal", they can achieve this fairly readily.

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, students who are not residents of former Delegate Valentine's District would not be able to vote for/against her as they would not be residents of that particular District and registered to vote there. Now if they were to establish residency, a different story, or Liberty is taking a page out of ACORN's playbook.

 

[wayman]

(I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!)

Fast Flying Lynchburger?

Since Lynchburg is the home of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, perhaps the Liberty Flame or the Lynchburg Flame, or maybe the Falwell Flame. Or maybe just the Jerry Falwell. Sure, it would get a lot of liberals' panties in a bunch, but it might get a number of young Religious Right Republicans to support Amtrak.

OTOH, to support the other school there, call it the Lynchburg Hornet.

It was the Liberty University students that voted in mass for the canidate that defeated Amtrak champion Sharron Valentine.

Did they oppose Valentine because of her support for Amtrak, or because of her support for liberal positions (assuming she had them) on issues such as abortion, homosexuality, military spending, etc.?

My understanding of Liberty University is that it has two litmus test issues -- views on abortion and gay rights -- which determine the school's not-so-subtle "endorsement" to its student body. The university then cancels all classes on Election Day and hires a fleet of buses to take students to polls after offering them voting guides (since many of them are not local).

The issue is not unique to Liberty -- the issue of university students organizing and voting at school, where they are less familiar with local issues and will not remain in the voting district to be represented by whomever they vote for beyond graduation. But Liberty is (1) quite large, and more able to overwhelm locals in election turnout than many schools (I have the sense that most large universities are split up across multiple districts so in no district do students come close to out-representing locals, while in Liberty's case, districts are not drawn this way to the same degree as in most places), and (2) rather unique in the degree to which the university administration facilitates -- almost mandates -- students to vote locally. Basically, the university itself tries to swing elections in its favor so local policies favor the university administration's goals, and because they have an enormous student body essentially "at their disposal", they can achieve this fairly readily.

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, students who are not residents of former Delegate Valentine's District would not be able to vote for/against her as they would not be residents of that particular District and registered to vote there. Now if they were to establish residency, a different story, or Liberty is taking a page out of ACORN's playbook.

It's extremely easy for students to establish residency at their college address, simply by filling out a voter registration form, in order to vote in those elections (instead of in their "home state" elections). And I'm sure Liberty strongly encourages this at a university administrative level, just as they encourage voting. Many student organizations do the same things elsewhere -- student groups associated with a party's politics like Drexel Dems or even student groups supporting issues activism will often hold on-campus voter registration activities -- but the degree of official university administration involvement that Liberty puts forth is quite unusual.

 

[Big Iron]

(I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!)

Fast Flying Lynchburger?

Since Lynchburg is the home of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, perhaps the Liberty Flame or the Lynchburg Flame, or maybe the Falwell Flame. Or maybe just the Jerry Falwell. Sure, it would get a lot of liberals' panties in a bunch, but it might get a number of young Religious Right Republicans to support Amtrak.

OTOH, to support the other school there, call it the Lynchburg Hornet.

It was the Liberty University students that voted in mass for the canidate that defeated Amtrak champion Sharron Valentine.

Did they oppose Valentine because of her support for Amtrak, or because of her support for liberal positions (assuming she had them) on issues such as abortion, homosexuality, military spending, etc.?

My understanding of Liberty University is that it has two litmus test issues -- views on abortion and gay rights -- which determine the school's not-so-subtle "endorsement" to its student body. The university then cancels all classes on Election Day and hires a fleet of buses to take students to polls after offering them voting guides (since many of them are not local).

The issue is not unique to Liberty -- the issue of university students organizing and voting at school, where they are less familiar with local issues and will not remain in the voting district to be represented by whomever they vote for beyond graduation. But Liberty is (1) quite large, and more able to overwhelm locals in election turnout than many schools (I have the sense that most large universities are split up across multiple districts so in no district do students come close to out-representing locals, while in Liberty's case, districts are not drawn this way to the same degree as in most places), and (2) rather unique in the degree to which the university administration facilitates -- almost mandates -- students to vote locally. Basically, the university itself tries to swing elections in its favor so local policies favor the university administration's goals, and because they have an enormous student body essentially "at their disposal", they can achieve this fairly readily.

In the Commonwealth of Virginia, students who are not residents of former Delegate Valentine's District would not be able to vote for/against her as they would not be residents of that particular District and registered to vote there. Now if they were to establish residency, a different story, or Liberty is taking a page out of ACORN's playbook.

It's extremely easy for students to establish residency at their college address, simply by filling out a voter registration form, in order to vote in those elections (instead of in their "home state" elections). And I'm sure Liberty strongly encourages this at a university administrative level, just as they encourage voting. Many student organizations do the same things elsewhere -- student groups associated with a party's politics like Drexel Dems or even student groups supporting issues activism will often hold on-campus voter registration activities -- but the degree of official university administration involvement that Liberty puts forth is quite unusual.

Agreed. Liberty University wears its conservatism on its sleeve and a Falwell endorsement paves the way for an easy victory. If memory serves, the Young Democrat club (or similar such group) at Liberty was de-sanctioned as a university funded club and forced off campus.

 

[Ryan]

a page out of ACORN's playbook.

And just what playbook would that be?

 

[Big Iron]

a page out of ACORN's playbook.

And just what playbook would that be?

Transporting un-registered voters to the polls to vote for a pre-determined candidate.

 

[Ryan]

a page out of ACORN's playbook.

And just what playbook would that be?

Transporting un-registered voters to the polls to vote for a pre-determined candidate.

And you've got proof that acorn's done that.

 

[Big Iron]

a page out of ACORN's playbook.

And just what playbook would that be?

Transporting un-registered voters to the polls to vote for a pre-determined candidate.

And you've got proof that acorn's done that.

The same amount of proof as you that they haven't.

 

[Ryan]

Fortunately we believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and being able to back up extraordinary claims that we make (which clearly you're not able to do). Thanks for playing.

 

[Big Iron]

Fortunately we believe in "innocent until proven guilty" and being able to back up extraordinary claims that we make (which clearly you're not able to do). Thanks for playing.

Just do a little poking around on the web and you can find a host of actual convictions, with the defendants pleading guilty to voter fraud charges, while working for ACORN. So there is proof to say that SOME ACORN employees have tampered with the voting process. I'll leave it at that and move away from the politics for now and also retract my "playbook" comment as being too broad in nature.

 

[DET63]

Lynchburg has a population of about 73,000. Nearly 12,000 of them are Liberty University students. There are several other colleges, community colleges and universities there as well. I wouldn't consider Liberty's student population to be "huge," at least not in comparison with other universities and colleges, even just in Virginia. The fact that they are a resident population, as opposed to commuting students who are already from the area, may give them a bit larger influence on local elections.

The fact that many of them may come from other parts of the U.S. may also make it less likely that they would be inclined to take the train home every weekend to visit their folks, i.e., they may fly or drive instead, and do so less frequently. Thus, they may be less inclined to support a pro-Amtrak candidate—irrespective of his or her positions on other issues—than students at large public institutions.

 

[Bob Dylan]

"Who's afraid of the big bad wolf, the big bad wolf..." Since time began there always has to have been an enemy, a scary

group of "them" to use to scare the people, er sheep! When I was young it was Communists, then beatniks and Rock N Roll, then hippies and drugs, blacks, orientals, hispanics,gays etc. Now the lunatic fringe is afraid of ACORN whose main purpose was to register voters, advise poor people on how to utilize the system in place to gain needed services since so many people are uneducated and dont know what's out there! Now that it's known that President Obama had brief ties with ACORN! it's another political tool to utilize by the birthers and other idiots in the T-Party movement running around like the Mad Hatter trying to find a life! If it wasnt so pathetic and sad, it would be laughable how easy some people are to fool with bs and lies, just ask Sarah Palin!

 

[Big Iron]

Lynchburg has a population of about 73,000. Nearly 12,000 of them are Liberty University students. There are several other colleges, community colleges and universities there as well. I wouldn't consider Liberty's student population to be "huge," at least not in comparison with other universities and colleges, even just in Virginia. The fact that they are a resident population, as opposed to commuting students who are already from the area, may give them a bit larger influence on local elections.
The fact that many of them may come from other parts of the U.S. may also make it less likely that they would be inclined to take the train home every weekend to visit their folks, i.e., they may fly or drive instead, and do so less frequently. Thus, they may be less inclined to support a pro-Amtrak candidate—irrespective of his or her positions on other issues—than students at large public institutions.

It would be interesting to see the geographic makeup of the Liberty student body. If they are from all points of the compass, a train might be the first part of their journey home as they train would hit most of the large East coast airports.

 

[DET63]

ACORN's misbehavior in registering voters has been documented, not just alleged. Whether or not the actions of some ACORN workers is endemic to the organization's SOP is another question, of course, and I suppose it's not fair to assume that everyone who works or has ever worked for ACORN is involved in voting fraud.

Why we need voter-registration drives is beyond me, though; in many parts of the country, it's almost more difficult to NOT get registered. You often don't even have to prove residency or citizenship to register (I didn't in California—or, years earlier, in Oregon), and you can vote by mail in the privacy (or even the privy, if you're so inclined ) of your own home should you find it difficult or impossible to get to the voting booth on election day.

As far as students at Liberty or any other university or college are concerned, I personally don't think they should vote in a community where they don't intend to spend the rest of their lives; I didn't while I was in college. Nevertheless, I believe the laws are written so that it is legal for them to do so, and so long as they aren't committing any crimes by doing so, they should vote (or not vote at all) as their conscience dictates. If a Liberty University student wishes to vote for a candidate who supports Amtrak, for example, even if that person's positions on other issues may not fall in lock-step with what Jerry Falwell preached, that student should be able to mark his or her secret ballot as he or she wishes.

 

[wayman]

Lynchburg has a population of about 73,000. Nearly 12,000 of them are Liberty University students.

Looks like the VA HoD 23rd District (which is more than just Lynchburg) 79,000 people, but that figure includes children and others ineligible to vote. Figure 80% of them are of voting age (potential voters), which would be about 63,000. Liberty University has an enrollment of 18,597 (google liberty university enrollment and it displays the answer before even giving the search results, amazing!). So there are about 45,000 non-LU student voters in the district. And probably 17,000 of the Liberty students are eligible to register locally -- 18+ and not international students.

Turnout in the 23rd District was 43%, which means there were 27,000 votes cast in the entire district. Let's assume LU registered 80% of their students locally and got 90% of those locally-registered students to the polls on their fleet of buses, with classes cancelled. That's 12,000 voters -- or very nearly HALF of the votes cast in the 23rd District -- voting in a bloc. That's huge.

Actually, let me revise that. 43% turnout is not 43% of "people of voting age" ... it's 43% of "registered voters". So, let's assume 80% of Liberty students registered locally, but only 70% of the voting-eligible non-LU-student population is registered to vote. And that's a high estimate. That would make the voting population 17,000 * .8 = about 13,500 LU students and 45,000 * .7 = 31,500 non-LU-students, for a total of about 45,000 voters. 43% of that is about 19,000 votes cast ... and if we assume LU had 90% turnout of registered students, that accounts for 12,000 votes. That's way more than half. I'm making lots of estimates here, and I'll freely admit they're probably off in some ways. But moving them around, you'll still find LU has a huge influence on local politics in this district no matter how you tweak them.

 

[Ryan]

ACORN's misbehavior in registering voters has been documented, not just alleged.

Uh, no, It hasn't. People working for ACORN have misbehaved, yet there is no proof whatsoever that this behavior was encouraged or even condoned by ACORN policy. There is plenty of evidence that ACORN cooperating and assisting in the prosecution of those that submitted fraudulent voter registrations.

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/CRS-ACORN091222.pdf

Effect of alleged false voter registrations by ACORN workers. You asked CRS to research improper voter registrations that resulted in people being placed on the voting rolls and attempting to vote improperly at the polls. As you discussed with Julius Jefferson (x75593) a NEXIS search of the ALL NEWS file did not identify any reported instances of individuals who were improperly registered by ACORN attempting to vote at the polls.

Stop spreading this BS FUD. It's been proven false time and time again.

 

[Big Iron]

Lynchburg has a population of about 73,000. Nearly 12,000 of them are Liberty University students.

Looks like the VA HoD 23rd District (which is more than just Lynchburg) 79,000 people, but that figure includes children and others ineligible to vote. Figure 80% of them are of voting age (potential voters), which would be about 63,000. Liberty University has an enrollment of 18,597 (google liberty university enrollment and it displays the answer before even giving the search results, amazing!). It's fair to assume 18,000 are eligible voters, which means the 23rd District has about 18,000 LU students and 45,000 non-LU students.

Turnout in the 23rd District was 43%, which means there were 27,000 votes cast in the entire district. Let's assume LU registered 80% of their students locally and got 90% of those locally-registered students to the polls on their fleet of buses, with classes cancelled. That's 13,000 voters -- or very nearly HALF of the votes cast in the 23rd District -- voting in a bloc. That's huge.

I visited Shannon Valentine's website. It was somewhat unique to see biblical quotes on the homepage. Your math speaks volumes of that voting district. Time for Amtrak to spend some marketing dollars on Liberty's campus. If Amtrak can sway that campus towards taking the train then everybody wins.

I think I may have made reference to this earlier in the thread, or was just thinking (dreaming). Split the train to run through Farmville into Richmond and extend to Roanoke thereby Amtrak could capture Virginia Tech, Roanoke area colleges, Lynchburg, Longwood Universtiy and other Richmond bound traffic. Or, have buses meet the Regional in CVS to make the RVR connection.

 

[Ryan]

I visited Shannon Valentine's website. It was somewhat unique to see biblical quotes on the homepage. Your math speaks volumes of that voting district. Time for Amtrak to spend some marketing dollars on Liberty's campus.

You'll have to find a pro-life, anti-gay rights, pro-Amtrak candidate, or else Amtrak may as well light those marketing dollars on fire.

 

[DET63]

ACORN's misbehavior in registering voters has been documented, not just alleged.

Uh, no, It hasn't. People working for ACORN have misbehaved, yet there is no proof whatsoever that this behavior was encouraged or even condoned by ACORN policy. There is plenty of evidence that ACORN cooperating and assisting in the prosecution of those that submitted fraudulent voter registrations.

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/CRS-ACORN091222.pdf

Effect of alleged false voter registrations by ACORN workers. You asked CRS to research improper voter registrations that resulted in people being placed on the voting rolls and attempting to vote improperly at the polls. As you discussed with Julius Jefferson (x75593) a NEXIS search of the ALL NEWS file did not identify any reported instances of individuals who were improperly registered by ACORN attempting to vote at the polls.

Stop spreading this BS FUD. It's been proven false time and time again.

Hardly BS, and hardly "proven false time and time again." Whether anyone is actually prosecuted for the organization's misbehavior is, of course, another matter.

 

[Big Iron]

ACORN's misbehavior in registering voters has been documented, not just alleged.

Uh, no, It hasn't. People working for ACORN have misbehaved, yet there is no proof whatsoever that this behavior was encouraged or even condoned by ACORN policy. There is plenty of evidence that ACORN cooperating and assisting in the prosecution of those that submitted fraudulent voter registrations.

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/CRS-ACORN091222.pdf

Effect of alleged false voter registrations by ACORN workers. You asked CRS to research improper voter registrations that resulted in people being placed on the voting rolls and attempting to vote improperly at the polls. As you discussed with Julius Jefferson (x75593) a NEXIS search of the ALL NEWS file did not identify any reported instances of individuals who were improperly registered by ACORN attempting to vote at the polls.

Stop spreading this BS FUD. It's been proven false time and time again.

Hardly BS, and hardly "proven false time and time again." Whether anyone is actually prosecuted for the organization's misbehavior is, of course, another matter.

I don't feel like going back to the source on the internet but I googled "acorn voter fraud convictions" and there were 3 acorn employees that pleaded guilty in Seattle, WA for falsely registering voters. I said I wasn't going to go back to politics but there is docketed proof of voter fraud, how rampant is for the speculators.

 

[Big Iron]

I visited Shannon Valentine's website. It was somewhat unique to see biblical quotes on the homepage. Your math speaks volumes of that voting district. Time for Amtrak to spend some marketing dollars on Liberty's campus.

You'll have to find a pro-life, anti-gay rights, pro-Amtrak candidate, or else Amtrak may as well light those marketing dollars on fire.

HA HA, I'll agree with you on that point. The point I was making is the train is already there, put some money towards marketing (maybe Amtrak already has) and ridership will increase, politics notwithstanding.

 

[Neil_M]

Religion and politics should not be mixed together....

 

[Ryan]

Hardly BS, and hardly "proven false time and time again." Whether anyone is actually prosecuted for the organization's misbehavior is, of course, another matter.

So we're back to extraordinary claims and lack of proof. I've provided a start on the information that proves your allegations false. You've provided ... nothing.

I don't feel like going back to the source on the internet but I googled "acorn voter fraud convictions" and there were 3 acorn employees that pleaded guilty in Seattle, WA for falsely registering voters. I said I wasn't going to go back to politics but there is docketed proof of voter fraud, how rampant is for the speculators.

There's still nothing that says the organization as a whole encourages or condones such action. On the contrary:

ACORN President Maude Hurd said in a statement, "It appears that a handful of temporary workers were trying to get paid for work they hadn't actually done. While we don't think the intent or the result of their actions was to allow any ineligible person to vote, these employees defrauded ACORN and imposed a burden on the time and resources of registrars and law enforcement."

Perhaps if you had referred to Liberty taking a page out of Diebold's playbook, you'd have been more accurate (except Diebold's fraud didn't require actual people to show up and vote).

 

[Big Iron]

"Who's afraid of the big bad wolf, the big bad wolf..." Since time began there always has to have been an enemy, a scary group of "them" to use to scare the people, er sheep! When I was young it was Communists, then beatniks and Rock N Roll, then hippies and drugs, blacks, orientals, hispanics,gays etc. Now the lunatic fringe is afraid of ACORN whose main purpose was to register voters, advise poor people on how to utilize the system in place to gain needed services since so many people are uneducated and dont know what's out there! Now that it's known that President Obama had brief ties with ACORN! it's another political tool to utilize by the birthers and other idiots in the T-Party movement running around like the Mad Hatter trying to find a life! If it wasnt so pathetic and sad, it would be laughable how easy some people are to fool with bs and lies, just ask Sarah Palin!

Acorn deviated from their core principals, noble in all respects, and failed to oversee their base thus allowing criminal activity to gain ground within the organization. There are many, many, many civic and not for profit organizations (I sit on the Board of more than a few) that serve the same/similar purpose as Acorn and rely soley on private contributions and do not operate under a cloud of alleged criminal activity to accomplish their mission. Let Acorn stand or fail on its own fundraising merits.

 

[Ryan]

do not operate under a cloud of alleged criminal activity to accomplish their mission.

The cloud of allegations is made wholly of the right wing media and misinformed people spreading FUD. It is completely impossible to have an organization of 400,000 people without a few bad apples.

 

[Guest_George Harris_*]

Give it a rest, everybody involved.

Ryan-VT, the question on the table is not who made the allegations, but whether or not they are true. You would be a lot more convincing if you addressed the facts rather than throwing mud at those you disagree with.

I see no relevance between being a supporter of passenger rail serivce and either political liberalism or political conservatism. There are political issues completely unrelated to Amtrak or other rail issues that would trump a candidate's views on rail, either pro or con, even if it cost me my job, which happens to be related to rail.