New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[pennyk]

Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

Well written letter Coby. It is good to "see you."

 

[OBS]

Coby, If you do decide to write to your Congressional folks, Edit, edit, edit that letter. Much too long winded. Keep short and to the point, please.

 

[cpotisch]

Coby, If you do decide to write to your Congressional folks, Edit, edit, edit that letter. Much too long winded. Keep short and to the point, please.

Gee, thanks.

 

[user 14106]

Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

Dear Mr. Anderson, Mr. Gardner, Mr. Coscia and Amtrak Board of Directors

My name is Coby Potischman. I am a 17-year-old avid rail fan from New York City and a longtime advocate for Amtrak, as well as a member of the Rail Passenger Association. I am incredibly concerned and disheartened by all of the recent cuts to service and amenities, and particularly the decision to switch to “contemporary” boxed meals on all routes east of the Mississippi after October 1. As a longtime customer and passenger, I ask that you please read this through.

My family and I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on Amtrak travel over the past several years, simply because it has been an incredibly enjoyable and unique way to travel. However, in recent years, the cuts and degradations to service have made our decision to take Amtrak, instead of the airlines, more and more difficult to justify.

Inter-city rail in the U.S. will never be able to compete with a plane in regard to speed. The only way for it to compete is for the overall experience and amenities to be superior.

We used to able to check baggage to and from the vast majority of stations. Now, not only are the majority of stations unstaffed, but such routes as the City of New Orleans, Texas Eagle, and Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited, have lost their baggage cars.

Until only a few years ago, on virtually all routes, we could get freshly cooked meals (the Cardinal being the only exception), served on actual glassware and China, with unique selections for each region and direction. Now, the handful of routes that do retain full-service dining cars all serve the exact same menu–quite tedious over the course of a long trip–while the ones without offer an extremely limited selection of low-quality meals, if anything at all.

I won’t even get into the cuts to Amtrak Guest Rewards, retirement of the Pacific Parlour Cars, increase in ticket prices, loss of flowers and snacks in the sleepers, discontinuation of the AAA and Veterans’ discount, reduction and increased restrictions of the Senior discount, and the tightening of the change and cancellation policy. These are smaller things, but they really do add up.

At a certain point, any person who has alternatives such as taking a plane, a car, or a bus, will no longer take Amtrak. Meanwhile, the people who either live in places served exclusively by the train, or who are physically unable to take other forms of transport, will be stuck not traveling at all, or suffering through an increasingly expensive, long and uncomfortable ride on the rails.

For Amtrak to do well, I believe it has to focus on what can make it best. I know that Food & Beverage service is mandated to turn a profit. However, that mandate was not written with the intent that the service itself has to make money; rather, those services are required to result in Amtrak as a whole being more profitable. Dining cars have always been loss leaders. The operation itself loses some amount of money, however, if it gets enough people to ride the train, it ends up paying for itself. Additionally, if need be, more money could simply be allocated from the sleepers to the diners, since the former is not required to turn a profit.

Every year, my family and I take a trip to South Florida to stay with my grandparents. We first took the train (in a Roomette) in 2011, and absolutely loved it. Since then, we have taken the Silver Service in at least one direction, almost every year, even after the Silver Star lost its dining car in 2015. The continued availability of the dining car on the Meteor is what has made it possible for us to continue taking the train for those trips.

Between these rides to Florida, multiple cross country trips, and countless other shorter day and overnight rides, we have spent more than 600 hours in sleepers, and many thousands of dollars on the tickets. And even after experiencing countless rude employees, numerous train cancellations, and even a derailment in Georgia last year, we have continued to ride and advocate for Amtrak.

But as prices increase, the meal service is degraded, checked baggage service becomes less and less available, and so on, justifying these trips has become incredibly difficult. We have tried the boxed meal service on the Lake Shore Limited multiple times, and I can say that if it is implemented on the Silver Meteor, we will no longer be able to take Amtrak to visit my grandparents. I have many friends who previously would take multiple massive cross country trips each year. But without full meal service on any route between Chicago and the East Coast, such trips are no longer feasible for them.

There aren’t just issues for angry railfans who want to keep the status quo at all costs.

These are issues for all the people with dietary restrictions, since limited menus and food prepared ahead of time offer little to no choice of ingredients, and are often extremely high in sugar.

These are issues for people who care about the environment; that don’t want to throw away cardboard boxes, plastic wrappers and bags, and disposable silverware at every meal.

These are issues for the people who can no longer afford their tickets, or who have to travel in coach, where they no longer have access to a dining car at all.

These are issues for people who live in remote towns without any other form of transit, who would see their rail service cut and/or replaced by buses, as you proposed this February.

These are issues for the people who take Amtrak to move, but can no longer bring nearly as many of their belongings due to the loss of checked baggage.

These are issues for the thousands of station employees and OBS staff that work hard to make passengers’ trips much more enjoyable, yet are losing their jobs.

Amtrak was not created with the goal of turning a profit. It was created when the private railroads of the time could NOT turn a profit, and the government saw the need to fund and retain adequate passenger rail service. In fact, Amtrak has explicitly stated in the “National Fact Sheets” of 2016, 2017, and 2018, that “No country in the world operates a passenger rail system without some form of public support for capital costs and/or operating expenses.”

I had been really hoping to take a very long round-trip coast to coast train trip before I head off to college next year. This would be a multi-thousand dollar trip with connections in six different cities (Chicago, Portland, Oregon, Emeryville/San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, and Portland, Maine), involving eight nights onboard, and sleeping accommodations the whole way. This would be the ultimate way for me to really see the country and enjoy the National Network while I still have the time to do so, before this new chapter of my life.

Yet as a vegetarian, if more of these routes lose their dining service, it would legitimately be impossible to spend that much time onboard with that sort of meal selection. And as I said earlier, I know many people who are in a similar position. It’s not just about comfort or overall luxury; this sort of service simply isn’t doable for many people and serves to make train travel completely obsolete.

I hope you consider these points in your work to improve Amtrak.

Thank you so much for reading.

- Coby Potischman

Great letter. And welcome back.

 

[jiml]

Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

As a relative newcomer here I have enjoyed reading your past posts - especially the trip reports. Your letter is well-written and covers a wide range of topics. That having been said, the person who suggested an edit or two (unless already sent) is not wrong. The problem with any letter to a corporation is that it is first read by someone it was not addressed to. That person decides how much further it goes. Rare is the corporate executive who actually reads his/her own mail. Also, consider if some of your points were deserving of their own individual letters. For example, the comments about Guest Rewards might make it to a separate department rather than the CEO. Often it is better to make short, specific comments to have the most impact, rather than cover all your grievances/suggestions in one package. Finally, never include too much information about yourself - the railfan reference comes to mind. Something like that near the beginning can get the whole rest of the letter dismissed before it is read. It is important to you, but not to them. They have to simply realize you are a disgruntled paying customer - nothing more. Your wallet talks volumes.

Don't let me discourage you however. Keep up the good fight and please continue to contribute. You remind me of me many years ago.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The airlines (especially the budget carriers like Southwest, etc.) seem to be doing quite well without having ANY food service, even on long transcontinental fights. I can say from experience that going without a meal is a nuisance, but I can deal with it (and apparently, so can American airline passengers in general), especially if the alternative is not being able to take the trip at all.

Southwest is fast and dependable with drinks and snacks included and numerous meal options available at departure and arrival locations. Amtrak is slow and undependable with most stations having little or nothing to eat or drink on site. You can't charge Southwest Airlines prices for the speed and dependability of a fly-by-night autobus company.

Train trips are longer than flights, so I can see the need for SOME sort of food service, but it doesn't need to be the sit-down restaurant model. I'd be fine with tray meals like the airline meals of yore. They could even serve them in the dining cars, as this would probably be more efficient than trying to move through the train with meal carts. So you'd still have the dining car experience, of a sort.

I honestly don't see the point of keeping up the dining car charade anymore. It probably would be just as well to place a crate of boxed meals near the entrance for passengers to collect on the way to their seat.

It's possible, once they eliminate restaurant style service, they could bring it back via outside contractors. Just because they were unsuccessful doing this before doesn't mean they won't succeed in the future. This has the advantage of taking food service off the books entirely.

Interesting theory. Maybe Richard Anderson took this job for one last chance to fight with yet another union.

 

[HGSCS]

Hi, y'all. I'm just so disappointed by this news that I finally took the time to write and send the following letter to Anderson, Gardner, and Coscia yesterday. I don't think it will make any difference, but at least I can feel like I'm doing something.

Coby,

You have received some very good advice here. Your letter is obviously very passionate. That’s a good thing. But you need to focus that passion. You want to make the letter “punch”. Whoever reads this letter is going to give it, at best, a few seconds of their full attention. Two paragraphs is really all that you should need to convey your point powerfully.

It’s a great start that will really shine with some editing.

 

[jiml]

I honestly don't see the point of keeping up the dining car charade anymore. It probably would be just as well to place a crate of boxed meals near the entrance for passengers to collect on the way to their seat.

Ah, the infamous American Airlines Bistro Bag. Been there, done that...

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

The funny thing is looking back and compared to how things are now I actually enjoyed the bistro bag. A bagged lunch on a 2:00 flight works, a boxed lunch for a couple paying upwards of $1000 for a 30 hour train ride isn’t.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Southwest is fast and dependable with drinks and snacks included and numerous meal options available at departure and arrival locations. Amtrak is slow and undependable with most stations having little or nothing to eat or drink on site. You can't charge Southwest Airlines prices for the speed and dependability of a fly-by-night autobus company.

Exactly. And when was the last time Amtrak Guest Rewards sent anyone a free drink coupon? I got 4 in the mail and I'm not even A-List.

 

[Charles785]

I'm sure the letter above written by young Cody about the reduction in amenities for Amtrak long-distance trains is one I whole heartily agree with but I'll admit I didn't read the entire letter. And perhaps it can be made even more effective and to the point.

Now, I will admit my bias for brevity. And I know Cody put a lot of thought and effort into wriitng what he wanted to say. I'm also sure a background in writing for radio, and in writing news releases that I wanted published, encouraged me to always edit for length.

So, just based on my experience, my thoughts are that if Cody would take his main thoughts in the above letter he wrote to Amtrak, and edit them down to, say, 300 words (the maximum length some newspapers allow for letters to the editor) from the current 1500 words or so, and send them to his Senators,
Representative, New York area daily and weekly newspapers, and others, he would maximize the chances of his letter being thoroughly read, and maybe even published.

Anyway, just a thought. Oh - and I'll admit to another bias. I want the message in opposition to the downgrading of Amtrak's long-distance to be heard loud and clear everywhere possible. Cody's certainly started to do his part.

 

[tim49424]

Well written letter Coby. It is good to "see you."

Yes, Coby, glad you’re back. You’ve been missed and I hope you stick around!

 

[dogbert617]

Does contemporary dining include the option of getting something from the cafe car if you’re in a sleeper? It would make sense if the cost is comparable.

As I clearly remember from when I rode the EB #8 east from East Glacier Park to Chicago and asking my sleeping car attendant, no the sleeper fare does not include the cost of any cafe car food items. Which btw, you have to buy separately. A la how if you get a beer in the dining car, you have to pay for that separately vs. your meal and non-alcoholic drinks being free.

Doubt this has changed on Capitol and Lake Shore since contemporary dining was implemented on those 2 trains, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally Coby, that was a heck of a letter you wrote! I should probably write a letter like that at some point to the higher ups at Amtrak, and also to Congress(wo)men and Senators. I doubt this'll move the needle in stopping those upcoming dining car cuts, but never hurts to express my displeasure about contemporary dining expanding further.

 

[HGSCS]

Permit me to play Devil's advocate here.

We know that Anderson used the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited as tests for Contemporary Dining. It has now been several months. We also know (or at least strongly believe) that Anderson has decided to expand Contemporary Dining to all overnight trains east of the Mississippi. It is reasonable to infer from this that, despite all of the protestations on this forum, Contemporary Dining has not had an appreciable impact on overall ridership. If this is indeed the case, it's hard to fault Anderson for its expansion to similar trains.

It is perfectly understandable to be upset over this change. But if you are no longer going to ride a one-night train because of this change, let’s be honest. You were likely never a railfan in the first place. If you think that flying is going to now magically be preferable you are setting yourself up for disappointment. My suspicion is that for all of those people who say that they aren't going to ride the train, the overwhelming majority are going to ride the train. No doubt Anderson has seen this in the airline world. Think about how many people complained vociforously over baggage fees, removal of meals, etc. And yet they still traveled by air. But Amtrak is all about the experience, no? Well... maybe it is. But Anderson now has data to show that the "experience" of Contemporary Dining for one night has not negatively impacted ridership on one-night trains. Or at least that the negative impact on ridership is justified by the savings in the dining car.

I suppose that this could really just be some part of a big conspiracy to remove long distance trains from the schedule. But if that was the case Anderson would have launched Contemporary Dining system-wide. This has all of the hallmarks of a controlled test and a broader roll out based on the results of that test.

Am I happy with the decision? No. Will I still travel by train? Yes. No doubt Anderson knows that most people think like me.

 

[Rasputin]

Let's see the data on ridership.

 

[HGSCS]

Let's look at operating costs. Specifically, let's look at the operating profit and losses.

Year to date, as of May, here is what we see for 2018 and 2019.

Lake Shore Limited:
2018 operating losses: 26.9
2019 operating losses: 23.5

Capitol Limited:
2018 operating losses: 19.8
2019 operating losses: 17.3

So this tells us that both trains have had lower losses since the introduction of Contemporary Dining. In other words, it has not had the catastrophic impact that many suggested it would have.

Mind you, other eastern long distance trains lost less money as well. But that's the point. Contemporary Dining doesn't reverse that overall trend. I freely admit that this is a very shallow look into the overall issue - and that I am probably in over my head here, but it is safe to say that rumors of the demise of these trains were greatly exaggerated.

 

[Rasputin]

It is perfectly understandable to be upset over this change. But if you are no longer going to ride a one-night train because of this change, let’s be honest. You were likely never a railfan in the first place.

I guess I should be honest and come clean. I was never a railfan, just a foodie who enjoyed dining cars.

 

[HGSCS]

I guess I should be honest and come clean. I was never a railfan, just a foodie who enjoyed dining cars.

Egads. The diner car food was never THAT good. If it was the atmosphere of a dining car that you were after, Contemporary Dining doesn't change things except for the level of service.

 

[Rasputin]

Egads. The diner car food was never THAT good. If it was the atmosphere of a dining car that you were after, Contemporary Dining doesn't change things except for the level of service.

I have been riding trains with dining cars since the 1960s. They have run the gamut. You call it your way and I will call it mine.

 

[JoeBas]

It is perfectly understandable to be upset over this change. But if you are no longer going to ride a one-night train because of this change, let’s be honest. You were likely never a railfan in the first place.

Dammit, I guess I have to close my 4 train watching webcams I have going on my 3rd monitor here at work now, because I guess I was never a railfan in the first place.

Now, where did I put that Emoji... it IS, after all, Emoji day.

Ah yes, here it is.

 

[HGSCS]

Dammit, I guess I have to close my 4 train watching webcams I have going on my 3rd monitor here at work now, because I guess I was never a railfan in the first place.

Now, where did I put that Emoji... it IS, after all, Emoji day.

Ah yes, here it is.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you are going to stop riding any trains with Contemporary Dining?

 

[flitcraft]

Cody, what a fantastic writer you are! As a university professor, I can tell you that you are already a far better writer than most college students are when they finish their degrees!

The advice you are getting about writing a shorter version of the letter for purposes of affecting policy is good, however. I've also been told that a hard copy letter tends to get more attention than an email does.

It's great to see you back here; your contributions and your unique voice have certainly been missed.

 

[JoeBas]

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you are going to stop riding any trains with Contemporary Dining?

No, I'm saying I've even stopped booking trains (I.E. Crescent, that I have frequently taken in the past) that DIDN'T have contemporary dining yet, in anticipation of the virus spreading to them before my trip and in light of the new, more draconian, airline-style cancellations policy.

 

[HGSCS]

No, I'm saying I've even stopped booking trains (I.E. Crescent, that I have frequently taken in the past) that DIDN'T have contemporary dining yet, in anticipation of the virus spreading to them before my trip and in light of the new, more draconian, airline-style cancellations policy.

Gotcha. All I can say is that Anderson does not believe that there are enough people like you out there. To be fair to Anderson, from a revenue perspective he appears to be correct. You also may want to consider at least trying contemporary dining. My experience is that, while not exactly what I would want to see on a train, I still am happy that I chose the train over other options. Many others have shared the same opinion.

 

[dgvrengineer]

Contemporary dining is not that bad! It was when it was first introduced, but they have improved the quality of the food and increased the variety. I'm sure this will continue to evolve and improve. For a one night train, I think this is adequate. I do not think it would be adequate for any train of two or more nights. People now days are more used to bag meals from fast food outlets than fancy meals from a high end restaurant. It would be great to go back to the dinning cars of the 50's & 60's, but those days are gone.