San Joaquins discussion

[Harmon Shay]

6 vending machines in 2 cars for a 6 hour run, that will become 4 max with the shortening to Merced and the extension to Chico

I know of that "six vending machines in two cars" plan, but On-track-on-line still indicates one vending car per train with some combination of coach seats and/or table seats. I wonder if that's why those cars at Siemens have no interiors yet; incredibly, that still hasn't been sorted out.

 

[GDRRiley]

I know of that "six vending machines in two cars" plan, but On-track-on-line still indicates one vending car per train with some combination of coach seats and/or table seats. I wonder if that's why those cars at Siemens have no interiors yet; incredibly, that still hasn't been sorted out.

I wouldn't trust On-track-on-line over the documents from SJJPA and the state

 

[Harmon Shay]

It'll be interesting to see how the car number plan changes if the two vending car per-train plan is used. The October 1st On-track-on-line update does say that 19 San Joaquin coaches have now been accepted, regular coaches and about four end coaches, I believe.

 

[JWM]

For those of us old enough to remember, Southern Pacific's "Automatic Buffet Cars" didn't die, they just went to sleep for over fifty years. This is a terrible idea. Put the manned "Snack Bars" on the new trains and give the passengers a break.

 

[Alice]

I'm wondering about wheelchair access. Can a wheelchair transition between the cars, or do we have to board the vending machine car and stay there if we want to eat? Does the car have a restroom? I'm interested in hearing anyone's experience once the new cars are in use.

 

[Willbridge]

For those of us old enough to remember, Southern Pacific's "Automatic Buffet Cars" didn't die, they just went to sleep for over fifty years. This is a terrible idea. Put the manned "Snack Bars" on the new trains and give the passengers a break.

According to this hand-out, the SP cars were wonderful. I think this was from my once in a lifetime on the San Joaquin Daylight in the summer of '68.

 

[Cal]

I'm wondering about wheelchair access. Can a wheelchair transition between the cars, or do we have to board the vending machine car and stay there if we want to eat? Does the car have a restroom? I'm interested in hearing anyone's experience once the new cars are in use.

Wheelchairs can go between cars I believe. That's one of the benefits of Venture cars. Every car should have restrooms.


And again, San Joaquins has said it intends to get cafes at some point.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Thanks for printing that old Automatic Buffet Car menu. I have one of those around here. I think I picked it up during the one time I got to use one of those cars on a visit to San Jose shortly after Amtrak started. It was on a "Coast Daylight" only day. SP assigned an automat car for food service.

 

[Bob Dylan]

According to this hand-out, the SP cars were wonderful. I think this was from my once in a lifetime on the San Joaquin Daylight in the summer of '68.
View attachment 37948

View attachment 37949

Same Marketing Hype that Amtrak used when introducing Flex Meals on the LD Trains!

 

[BlackDiamond]

According to this hand-out, the SP cars were wonderful. I think this was from my once in a lifetime on the San Joaquin Daylight in the summer of '68.
View attachment 37948

View attachment 37949

I wonder how they handled heating those "hot tray meals" ?

 

[Harmon Shay]

Same Marketing Hype that Amtrak used when introducing Flex Meals on the LD Trains!

Hate to say it, but I think Automatic Buffet Car fare was better than Flex.

I wonder how they handled heating those "hot tray meals" ?

I believe the SP added microwave ovens to the cars not long after the cars were introduced. Microwaves weren't in the original design, I suspect, because microwaves were pretty much introduced at the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. I believe the first automat car came out of SP's Sacramento shops in 1961.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hate to say it, but I think Automatic Buffet Car fare was better than Flex.


I believe the SP added microwave ovens to the cars not long after the cars were introduced. Microwaves weren't in the original design, I suspect, because microwaves were pretty much introduced at the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. I believe the first automat car came out of SP's Sacramento shops in 1961.

As one who experienced the SP Automatic Biuffet Cars and the Fresh and Contemporay Meals, along with the Flex Variations, Id say all 3 were Subpar!

 

[thefirewarde]

For those of us old enough to remember, Southern Pacific's "Automatic Buffet Cars" didn't die, they just went to sleep for over fifty years. This is a terrible idea. Put the manned "Snack Bars" on the new trains and give the passengers a break.

They've been alive, well, and well received on the Piedmont for decades.

I'll grant you that a three hour and chance timetable and a seven hour timetable are substantially different, but it is possible to do a vending cafe well.

 

[randomguy65]

I'm wondering about wheelchair access. Can a wheelchair transition between the cars, or do we have to board the vending machine car and stay there if we want to eat? Does the car have a restroom? I'm interested in hearing anyone's experience once the new cars are in use.

The new Venture trainsets are fully wheelchair accessible. You can freely move in your wheelchair through the entire train.

 

[railiner]

I wonder how they handled heating those "hot tray meals" ?

I don’t know how the SP did it, but PC used to have an attendant staffing their NEC coach-snack bars (“Hot-Cold Food and Beverages”), and they used to heat sandwiches in a plastic bag submerged in a very hot water tank of some sort, IIRC. Their “hot beef sandwiches” were pretty tasty…

 

[BlackDiamond]

I don’t know how the SP did it, but PC used to have an attendant staffing their NEC coach-snack bars (“Hot-Cold Food and Beverages”), and they used to heat sandwiches in a plastic bag submerged in a very hot water tank of some sort, IIRC. Their “hot beef sandwiches” were pretty tasty…

That sounds like an upgrade from the PC food service I remember. A guy sitting in the rear seats of an ex PRR P70 coach selling cold sandwiches and snacks out of a cardboard box on the seat.

 

[railiner]

That sounds like an upgrade from the PC food service I remember. A guy sitting in the rear seats of an ex PRR P70 coach selling cold sandwiches and snacks out of a cardboard box on the seat.

I believe PC called that: “Food Service by Train Sales Staff”, or something like that…

 

[Harmon Shay]

I don’t know how the SP did it, but PC used to have an attendant staffing their NEC coach-snack bars (“Hot-Cold Food and Beverages”), and they used to heat sandwiches in a plastic bag submerged in a very hot water tank of some sort, IIRC. Their “hot beef sandwiches” were pretty tasty…

I believe the SP usually had one Automat attendant per car as well. And while that attendant wasn't on duty 24 hours a day, at least SP trains with automat cars were the only ones in the country to offer 24-hour food service, unless the train crew closed the car at night. I'm not sure about that one.

 

[railiner]

I believe the SP usually had one Automat attendant per car as well. And while that attendant wasn't on duty 24 hours a day, at least SP trains with automat cars were the only ones in the country to offer 24-hour food service, unless the train crew closed the car at night. I'm not sure about that one.

The attendant was there mainly to maintain, stock, and clean the machines.
Possibly to also collect cash from them, and perhaps make change for customer’s, as well as clean the car.

 

[Harmon Shay]

I think the attendant also served alcoholic beverages.

I believe PC called that: “Food Service by Train Sales Staff”, or something like that…

And then there was "Sandwiches and refreshments by Train Sales Service" on the Great Northern.

 

[zephyr17]

The attendant was there mainly to maintain, stock, and clean the machines.
Possibly to also collect cash from them, and perhaps make change for customer’s, as well as clean the car.

Served liquor, too.

 

[MARC Rider]

Served liquor, too.

See, there are some things that robots can't do.

 

[railiner]

See, there are some things that robots can't do.

I’m guessing you haven’t sailed on one of these Royal Caribbean ships…

https://www.royalcaribbeanpresscenter.com/video/1027/cruising-with-robot-bartenders/

 

[Willbridge]

The attendant was there mainly to maintain, stock, and clean the machines.
Possibly to also collect cash from them, and perhaps make change for customer’s, as well as clean the car.

When I rode in summertime, there was a second attendant. I remember that well, because of the comparison with the Northern Pacific cafeteria-style car on Pool Trains 407/408 that served good food, including freshly made sandwiches with a two-man crew. They added a third man for clean-up on peak days. So, the SP saved a position and perhaps some commissary costs versus the NP approach and came up with a concept that was despised then and now.

1967

 

[av84]

There are some changes to SJJPA food service announced at the November 22nd board meeting. It sounds like the California Cars will switch from a staffed cafe car to a complimentary snack station, to match the Venture cars. Vending is delayed due to unspecified regulatory challenges.

WHEREAS, costs to have Amtrak operate all aspects of the food and beverage program for the
San Joaquins continue to increase; and

WHEREAS, while the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority (Authority) has been working towards
food delivery alternatives such as vending to reduce operating costs, that program is still working through
regulatory challenges and will take longer than anticipated to fully resolve; and

WHEREAS, the Authority would like to launch a pilot program to address the escalating costs in the
short term; and

WHEREAS, to achieve true program cost savings, the Authority would like to introduce complimentary
service across all trains with a limited offering of items, onboard a third-party provisioner to manage
provisioning, and reduce Amtrak program expenses; and

WHEREAS, prior work done in preparation for vending has enabled the Authority to gain greater
insight into what would be required to work with a third-party provisioner for food and beverage; and

WHEREAS, for the proposed pilot program, the Authority would like to onboard Canteen, a local
vendor with locations along the San Joaquins corridor that would be able to fulfill the program needs for
provisioning; and

Staff, in accordance with the procedures set forth in Section 7.1.2 of the Procurement Manual, have
determined that the agreement with Canteen qualifies as non-competitive procurement; and

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Governing Board of the San Joaquin Joint
Powers Authority hereby approves an Agreement with Compass Group USA, Inc. dba Canteen for an
Amount Not-To-Exceed $2,200,000 to support the Food and Beverage Program Pilot for the San Joaquins
Intercity Passenger Rail Service from January 1, 2025 to December 31, 2025, and Authorizing the
Executive Director to Negotiate, Award, and Execute Any and All Agreements and Documents Related to
the Project Including Any and All Amendments thereto within Her Spending Authority