Senate amendment to eliminate food/beverage on Amtrak (LD too)

[The Davy Crockett]

I just called Sen. Mark Warner's office, to express myself - politely - about Flake's Amendment.

 

[saxman]

At this point, emails probably won't suffice. You should call your senators today! Just ask that they vote against the amendment. Apparently there is a vote this afternoon!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hopefully all Members of AU and other Rail Supporters are letting their members of congress know their feelings on this piece of garbage amendment! I think all of us hope that it will not pass the Senate! And remember Amtrak Joe is still Vice president of the US and very influential in the Senate, the biggest Club in America! This Amendment will not stand!

Unfortunately for Texas and Amtrak we lost Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, one of the Saviors of Amtrak, to Retirement! She was a real Friend and Supporter of Amtrak and Rail and was heavily involved in the Heartland Flyer coming into existence and the Texas Eagle continuing to operate! Our two current Senators Vote according to Leadership Instructions (although Sen. Cruz does go Rogue on Occasion)and I received a Form e-mail from their offices when I expressed my thoughts on this Amendment! (Dear Constituent Blah! Blah! Blah! etc. etc. etc. )

 

[Paulus]

Which means half of passengers go further than that on a train.* It also ignores connections people may be making which require the use of multiple trains, but not having enough time between trains to have a sit-down meal.

*Assuming either a bell-shaped or even distribution of passenger trip-miles. Median would be more useful here, but not sure if that's available.

It also means that if it is perfectly acceptable on the Palmetto, it's perfectly acceptable on similar trains such as the Starlight or CONO.

The Starlight is not remotely similar. Do you actually know anything about Amtrak, Paulus?

Coach passengers on the Starlight average almost the exact same distance as on the Palmetto.

 

[Ryan]

How many coach passengers on the Palmetto travel for 36 hours and 1400 miles?

 

[cirdan]

I guess the other model is the one one sees in India - where 45 mins before a meal orders are taken, (then) telegraphed ahead, prepared, and when the train gets 45 minutes down the route all the cooked meals are brought on board - works amazingly well.

I totally approve of this model, but it can't be done until Amtrak trains run consistently on time.

This works quite well in India which has a very dense network of stations with service capabilities to support such.

For single night journey Rajdhani Expresses and day journey Shatabdi Expresses where food is included in all tickets, all the needed food is loaded into a Pantry Car or two at the point of origination. In case of undue delay requiring additional meals, the fallback is to use the dense network of service stations on the way to load the necessary additional food. Since there is ample food storage capacity for the train in the Pantry Cars there is no need for the loading to happen precisely before a meal time. It can be done where most convenient.

I would beg to disagree on just 4 hour delays on IR. During winter fog season even the prestigious Rajdhani Express between Kolkata and New Delhi runs 12 or 14 hours behind schedule on many occasions. I have experienced such more than once, including on that fateful day in early January when there were three collisions in the same day on that route, and we had to thread our way around the remnants of those collisions to make it to New Delhi just `15 hours late, on a journey that is scheduled for a shade under 17 hours. But even that day no one went without food for any meal on that train, and the Sealdah - New Delhi Rajdhani which was following its marker, equally late.

I've never been to India, so forgive me if this is a stupid remark.

But normally when I order, I order the entree and main dish, but don't pick a dessert until after finishing the main course as its always a bit risky to chose a dessert on an empty stomach. So even if the waiter radios my order to the next station, how are they to know what I'm going to order for dessert.

 

[jis]

How many coach passengers on the Palmetto travel for 36 hours and 1400 miles?

Fortunately if the Palmetto were traveling 1400 miles it would take almost 8 hours less than the Starlight Miami is 1389 miles from New York, and the Meteor does it in a shade under 28 hours. Just throwing in something that is vaguely related but has nothing to do with the basic point being made by Ryan

 

[jis]

I've never been to India, so forgive me if this is a stupid remark.

But normally when I order, I order the entree and main dish, but don't pick a dessert until after finishing the main course as its always a bit risky to chose a dessert on an empty stomach. So even if the waiter radios my order to the next station, how are they to know what I'm going to order for dessert.

You get to order everything together. The food is served at your seat since there is no Restaurant (Dining) Cars on any trains in India except on the Deccan Queen, which is a short haul corridor train between Mumbai CST (ex Bombay Victoria Terminus) and Pune. It is there purely as a matter of nostalgia I think.
So clearly it is not as luxurious an experience as eating in a Dining Car. If anyone claims so s/he is not being honest. But other than that it is quite adequate and quite good food.

On the Rajdhanis only the meals for the AC First Class Passengers are cooked on board in the Pantry Car. But there is usually only one AC First car with 20 something passengers, so that is quite manageable. The Kolkata Rajdhani is unique in carrying two AC First cars.

 

[Paulus]

How many coach passengers on the Palmetto travel for 36 hours and 1400 miles?

None I imagine. Nor do I imagine very many coach passengers do so on the Starlight.

 

[gmushial]

I guess the other model is the one one sees in India - where 45 mins before a meal orders are taken, (then) telegraphed ahead, prepared, and when the train gets 45 minutes down the route all the cooked meals are brought on board - works amazingly well.

I totally approve of this model, but it can't be done until Amtrak trains run consistently on time.

This works quite well in India which has a very dense network of stations with service capabilities to support such.

For single night journey Rajdhani Expresses and day journey Shatabdi Expresses where food is included in all tickets, all the needed food is loaded into a Pantry Car or two at the point of origination. In case of undue delay requiring additional meals, the fallback is to use the dense network of service stations on the way to load the necessary additional food. Since there is ample food storage capacity for the train in the Pantry Cars there is no need for the loading to happen precisely before a meal time. It can be done where most convenient.

I would beg to disagree on just 4 hour delays on IR. During winter fog season even the prestigious Rajdhani Express between Kolkata and New Delhi runs 12 or 14 hours behind schedule on many occasions. I have experienced such more than once, including on that fateful day in early January when there were three collisions in the same day on that route, and we had to thread our way around the remnants of those collisions to make it to New Delhi just `15 hours late, on a journey that is scheduled for a shade under 17 hours. But even that day no one went without food for any meal on that train, and the Sealdah - New Delhi Rajdhani which was following its marker, equally late.

I've never been to India, so forgive me if this is a stupid remark.

But normally when I order, I order the entree and main dish, but don't pick a dessert until after finishing the main course as its always a bit risky to chose a dessert on an empty stomach. So even if the waiter radios my order to the next station, how are they to know what I'm going to order for dessert.

Just a tangential comment: but if you love your trains, India and Japan are special countries (in that they still believe in their trains).... Indian trains are about as 'industrial strength" as they come - but delightful in their rawness; Japan is at the opposite end of the spectrum (where one might ride with three baskets of chickens), but in an ever so refined manner.

 

[gmushial]

I've never been to India, so forgive me if this is a stupid remark.

But normally when I order, I order the entree and main dish, but don't pick a dessert until after finishing the main course as its always a bit risky to chose a dessert on an empty stomach. So even if the waiter radios my order to the next station, how are they to know what I'm going to order for dessert.

You get to order everything together. The food is served at your seat since there is no Restaurant (Dining) Cars on any trains in India except on the Deccan Queen, which is a short haul corridor train between Mumbai CST (ex Bombay Victoria Terminus) and Pune. It is there purely as a matter of nostalgia I think.
So clearly it is not as luxurious an experience as eating in a Dining Car. If anyone claims so s/he is not being honest. But other than that it is quite adequate and quite good food.

On the Rajdhanis only the meals for the AC First Class Passengers are cooked on board in the Pantry Car. But there is usually only one AC First car with 20 something passengers, so that is quite manageable. The Kolkata Rajdhani is unique in carrying two AC First cars.

Or, wherever one is standing, trying to find some breeze... eating off your stainless steel tray... but delightfully/amazingly good food none the less.

 

[tonys96]

Just told by my Senator's office that they will vote FOR the amendment, and that it also included the snack sales in the Lounge. Either these would have to become a profit center, or disappear also. This Senator was in favor of completely dissolving Amtrak, and thought this amendment was the perfect way to do it.

So, to the poster who continually touts the "value" of the Palmetto.......how about if it had no food service at all? Still be the greatest thing on the rails?

 

[pennyk]

I called Senator Nelson and Representative Webster today.

 

[user 1215]

I have been end to end on the Palmetto and had quite a conversation with the Cafe car attendant. Basically, he has to load his whole train for both the Southbound AND the next day's Northbound in New York at around 5 AM. There is little to no opportunity to restock - even in Savannah. They often run out of food, but on lightly travelled days, they still sell quite a bit.

I would LOVE to see a diner on the Palmetto, though it would never happen. The train runs almost 15 hours - covering breakfast, lunch and dinner.

As for the amendment proposal, these politicos need to ride overnight on the train with no food - or even just cafe food.

 

[RRUserious]

I rode an off-schedule EB. The shock to me was that a Subway in Wisconsin Dells was where they resupplied. Made me very dubious about Amtrak management. MSP has lots of large-scale catering. Resupply could have been done more high quality there.

 

[tonys96]

I have been end to end on the Palmetto and had quite a conversation with the Cafe car attendant. Basically, he has to load his whole train for both the Southbound AND the next day's Northbound in New York at around 5 AM. There is little to no opportunity to restock - even in Savannah. They often run out of food, but on lightly travelled days, they still sell quite a bit.
I would LOVE to see a diner on the Palmetto, though it would never happen. The train runs almost 15 hours - covering breakfast, lunch and dinner.

As for the amendment proposal, these politicos need to ride overnight on the train with no food - or even just cafe food.

According to one Texas senator's office...they read the amendment to say ALL food service will no longer be subsidized, including snacks in the lounge. So there may be no cafe car food anymore either!

All food and beverage will become BYO.

 

[ATXEagle]

Just told by my Senator's office that they will vote FOR the amendment, and that it also included the snack sales in the Lounge. Either these would have to become a profit center, or disappear also. This Senator was in favor of completely dissolving Amtrak, and thought this amendment was the perfect way to do it.

At least his office is being honest that the intention of this amendment is to destroy Amtrak.

I appreciate that many folks on here are spelling out all the reasons this amendment is impractical, and I agree that if these senators spent any time at all on a long distance train they would realize the need for quality and affordable food service. But they are not offering this amendment because they think it will work, but because they know it will force Amtrak to fail.

I don't believe Amtrak will ever be profitable (any more than airlines would be profitable if they had to pay for air traffic control, airport infrastructure, etc.; or trucking companies would be profitable if they had to pay for interstate highways and the repair crews to maintain them). The senators who back this amendment don't want Amtrak to become as financially healthy as it can be, they want it to go away. I just hope that the pro-transportation funding senators don't fall for it. We need to invest more in quality transportation options in this country.

 

[tonys96]

Just told by my Senator's office that they will vote FOR the amendment, and that it also included the snack sales in the Lounge. Either these would have to become a profit center, or disappear also. This Senator was in favor of completely dissolving Amtrak, and thought this amendment was the perfect way to do it.

At least his office is being honest that the intention of this amendment is to destroy Amtrak.

Yes, and I really believe the sentiment is shared by the other senator of OUR state. Amtrak misses Kay Bailey......

 

[user 1215]

Is that Cornyn's office? I've spoken in person with the Senator (we went to the same high school - about 20 years apart) and he was, at least at that time, on Kay Bailey's side of the fence with regards to Amtrak. Maybe not as far in the field, but at least on the same side. Right up against the fence. Ready to flop.

 

[tonys96]

Is that Cornyn's office? I've spoken in person with the Senator (we went to the same high school - about 20 years apart) and he was, at least at that time, on Kay Bailey's side of the fence with regards to Amtrak. Maybe not as far in the field, but at least on the same side. Right up against the fence. Ready to flop.

No, it was the other guy's office. But I believe Cornyn would be happy to see Amtrak fail, also.

 

[Ryan]

How many coach passengers on the Palmetto travel for 36 hours and 1400 miles?

None I imagine. Nor do I imagine very many coach passengers do so on the Starlight.

You must not have a very good imagination, then.

Averages are great, but they don't tell the whole story.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

These anti-amtrak senetors must be bribed by the airlines and auto manufactures who want people to use more gas and fly more.

 

[ATXEagle]

I think that more and more "true believers" are entering the Senate and (especially) the House. They don't need to be bribed or lobbied by anyone to make them want to defund Amtrak. They are philosophically opposed to any federal government involvement in industry and won't listen to reason or compromise.

It used to be that even conservative politicians like Senator Hutchison were willing to compromise and make deals for the greater good of the country. But I think many of them are now so scared of a Tea Party primary challenge from the right that they feel unable to make any compromise.

The issue isn't really airline lobbying, the oil/gas industry, or the deficit. It is a fundamental belief that the federal government should be removed from as many facets of life as possible.

 

[Ryan]

Exactly.

Gerrymandering run amok has removed pretty much all of the swing seats from play, so it's a race to the right to avoid losing out in the primary.

When the Democratic candidates receive more votes nationwide by nearly 2 million votes but win 34 less seats, something is seriously messed up.

 

[amamba]

Exactly.
Gerrymandering run amok has removed pretty much all of the swing seats from play, so it's a race to the right to avoid losing out in the primary.

When the Democratic candidates receive more votes nationwide by nearly 2 million votes but win 34 less seats, something is seriously messed up.

Yup. It's called gerrymandering and its disgusting. Of course it does occur on both sides of the aisle, but what they have done recently in Texas is especially heinous.