Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[Metra Electric Rider]

Slides from the NGEC 2023 Annual Meeting:

Midwest Locomotive and Passenger Car 2023 Update (PDF)

What is a 'steering link' in the context of locomotives? (cliff notes version please)

 

[jis]

What is a 'steering link' in the context of locomotives? (cliff notes version please)

I am not sure about this but most likely it is referring to the "tie rod" mentioned in the excerpt

A triangular tie rod assures stable wheel set guidance.

Use of pivot elements and lateral mounting of secondary suspension springs significantly reduces the rotation stiffness of the truck, resulting in considerable reduction of wheel and rail wear.

Search for the phrase "tie rod" in the following document (PDF) to see the context:

Charger Diesel Electric Passenger Locomotive

 

[Steve4031]

I am not seeing a clear explanation as to why more venture cars are not in service.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I am not sure about this but most likely it is referring to the "tie rod" mentioned in the excerpt



Search for the phrase "tie rod" in the following document (PDF) to see the context:

Charger Diesel Electric Passenger Locomotive

Thanks, tie rod makes more sense than "steering" to me in a rail context.

 

[TheMalahat]

I am not seeing a clear explanation as to why more venture cars are not in service.

Bizarre isn't it?

 

[TransitTyrant]

I am not seeing a clear explanation as to why more venture cars are not in service.

Because only half the fleet has been delivered. I’m thinking after the laundry list of issues they halted production until the fixes could be made in the factory. Now there’s 20 cars either completed or close to completion that will be delivered soon.

 

[Steve4031]

Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense to me.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

What is a 'steering link' in the context of locomotives? (cliff notes version please)

I think it's attached to the steering wheel.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I think it's attached to the steering wheel.

Would that be rack and pinon or worm roller?

 

[TheMalahat]

Interesting video:



I think the conclusion is a bit silly, "it's hard to see why Amtrak continues to invest in seemingly unreliable trains." On the surface that might be a reasonable comment, but Siemens is a very successful and reliable equipment provider around the world. Issues seem to be Amtrak specific, and largely Chicago specific.

Chargers are doing fine everywhere else, and Ventures are doing fine everywhere else. Something has happened on the Amtrak procurement pipeline that's caused issues. It's hard to believe the Venture issues aren't actually Amtrak's to fix. But in the absence of any reliable information it's hard to draw any conclusions!

 

[Dutchrailnut]

yes cars are Siemens build, but lots of vendor items specified by consumer(Amtrak or regional owner) be it seats , steps , bathroom items etc.
These items are not a Siemens warranty but the manufacturer of these items. and unless we have info on such problems its hard to judge

 

[jis]

yes cars are Siemens build, but lots of vendor items specified by consumer(Amtrak or regional owner) be it seats , steps , bathroom items etc.
These items are not a Siemens warranty but the manufacturer of these items. and unless we have info on such problems its hard to judge

As an example, the lead in plumbing problem most likely was on a customer specified and possibly even customer supplied part. Over the years American customers have shown a propensity towards being unable to effectively manage purchase contracts and to some extent suffer from an initial ambiguous specification followed by the "Christmas Tree Ornaments" syndrome leading to all sorts of cost and schedule overruns. The vendors bear some responsibility too by making unrealistically low bids to try to capture the sale, a result of the specific implementation of a "low bid" system used in procurements which causes inadequate expertise on the buyers side to accept absurd bids.

 

[Amtrak25]

Where did the lead in the water come from ? Was it the welds in the copper pipes, or the source of the water ?

Too strong a magnet on the trays, hand rails falling off - this is Home Depot engineering. I couldn't dream this stuff up.

 

[jis]

Where did the lead in the water come from ? Was it the welds in the copper pipes, or the source of the water ?

Or the pipe itself. Who knows what the cast of a dozen specified or procured for installation?

Too strong a magnet on the trays, hand rails falling off - this is Home Depot engineering. I couldn't dream this stuff up.

Again, interior parts. Hard to tell who specified and procured those. None of this happened on the Brightline Cars may give us a hint.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

A perfect example of this was the Budd RDC other than seats it was take it or leave it . on later SPV (vendor car) it was a Budd shell and trucks , with any and all other parts specified by customer, seats, engine, electrical configuration, cab seats, APU, etc. it turned out not to successful

 

[Willbridge]

When the first year of GMC's New Look buses showed nothing but problems, GM fixed them and the design went on to be the most successful North American transit bus ever.

When the first Siemens DuWag LRV's were being assembled in Edmonton the Siemens technicians had sheets headed "Nicht für Dritte" (= Confidential proprietary info), so of course I came back while they were at lunch and read. It was case by case every problem in setting up the mother fleet of Frankfurt U-2 Stadtbahn cars, with the solution recorded. This was reassuring to me, as they were new in the North American market.

I agree that investigating the problems should include the maintenance operation in Chicago. When we visited the original San Diego Trolley shop in 1981, knowing some German and having a young colleague who was smart and low key made it easier for the DuWag rep there to show us weak points in the shop, including grit that blew in through open doors.

It is possible that rapid expansion has caused Siemens problems, but a good maintenance operation should be able to identify defects, work with the builder, and not just check off the FRA points and send the train back out.

 

[MARC Rider]

It's a European piece of equipment running on an American ROW. Which are completely different, as they found out with the Pans.

It seems like Siemens hasn't been having problems with the Venture cars on American ROW. Of course, the Ventures are 125 mph max vs. the 160+ mph max for the new Acelas, and for that matter, has anybody actually run any Venture cars on American tracks at 125 mph, except for a few Brightline test runs?

 

[Acela150]

It seems like Siemens hasn't been having problems with the Venture cars on American ROW. Of course, the Ventures are 125 mph max vs. the 160+ mph max for the new Acelas, and for that matter, has anybody actually run any Venture cars on American tracks at 125 mph, except for a few Brightline test runs?

Yes. A venture coach ran on the NEC at 125 mph a couple of years ago for testing purposes.

 

[Cal]

Yes. A venture coach ran on the NEC at 125 mph a couple of years ago for testing purposes.

And they run at 110 in Michigan.

 

[IAlam]

Yes. A venture coach ran on the NEC at 125 mph a couple of years ago for testing purposes.

It seems like Siemens hasn't been having problems with the Venture cars on American ROW. Of course, the Ventures are 125 mph max vs. the 160+ mph max for the new Acelas, and for that matter, has anybody actually run any Venture cars on American tracks at 125 mph, except for a few Brightline test runs?

Wow I can't believe it was 3 years ago it's been taking a long time for Amtrak's new fleet to roll out

 

[Mailliw]

Siemens seems to be delivering quicker than previous orders from other manufacturers.

 

[west point]

If someone could provide a same day drone picture(s) every week of the Siemens storage yard outside the Sacramento plant then we could count all cars. Then it would be easy to determine the efficiency of the plant. and if the plant is catching up on deliveries.

 

[Steve4031]

I just saw 370 cross the Dan Ryan expressway in Chicago. All horizon cars. Depressing.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Any updates on the cafe cars? Once those are delivered, the full sets will be rolling.

 

[GDRRiley]

There is a San Joaquin board meeting next week so we should know on Monday or Tuesday some info on whats going on with the California fleet.