Superliner trains' removal and restoration of cars (2022-2023)

[trimetbusfan]

There ain't no such thing. No new believels have come into service since the Surfliners.

There may have been deadheads of various types, possibly including bilevel California Cars being repatriated from Beech Grove.

A picture would help. I think an absolute max revenue consist would have been, baggage, 3 sleepers (or transdorm and two sleepers), diner, Sightseer, two coaches. 8 cars max in the active consist. Small chance of 3 coaches, making an active consist of 9.

A recent Zephyr had 301 + 3 other ALC 42s, an extra Amfleet cafe car and an extra sleeper (on top of the regular consist) making a 14 car total consist.

 

[amtrakp42]

Just so everyone knows what they are up against. I called customer service about 2 hours ago. I got transferred to customer relations. Message said a 7 minute wait and I opted for a call back which I promptly received. I was number 1 in line. 40 minutes later I gave up and called back. A very nice customer service agent tried to get someone in customer relations to pick up. She must have given up because after about 10 minutes I was back waiting for customer relations to pick up. 53 minutes later I'm still waiting. Also I am assuming that they don't have enough people to actually staff the Select Plus special handling number. You "talk" to a recording and when "it" can't help you it appears you just get dumped into the standard customer service lines. Got to love what Covid has done to this country.

If you used points to buy the regular 800 agent will have to send you backto rewards number as they can not handle points.

 

[amtrakp42]

A recent Zephyr had 301 + 3 other ALC 42s, an extra Amfleet cafe car and an extra sleeper (on top of the youregular consist) making a 14 car total consist.

And for those booked in the middle of Sept 2022, remember if freight railroaders go on strike most all Amtrak trains will be sitting as dispatchers will also be out. So if you leave on Sept 14 to California from Chicago a person may end up in Omaha! Now what a bummer.

 

[Almarode]

I believe it is unlikely that it would be permitted and I certainly would not count on it.

I am interested if that is happening soon. I was down graded to a coach from a bedroom. Looking for a sleeper from Slc to Chi on October 3.

 

[Almarode]

We had 2 bedrooms booked on the Zephyr for 9/18. Also received an email about a sleeper car being removed. Their communication is atrocious as there was not updated reservation information. It wasn't until I called that I discovered that one bedroom had been moved to coach because the other was on a different car. No communication about the amount of the refund. Again had to ask on the call. The agent was rude. For the moment, leaving the reservation as is because my in-laws are coming from the UK for this trip. Anyone ever have any luck picking up a cancellation? I guess I'll be stalking the website in the hopes that I get lucky. Also, does anyone have any insight on seat swaps? I ask because my in-laws will have the room, but by the time of the trip I'll be 17 weeks pregnant. In-laws have said I could have a night in the sleeper and one of them will sit coach. Would the attendant allow that?

JCmascarenas, If anyway possible, I am interested in any kind of sleepers that would become available from Salt Lake City to Chicago on October 3. My wife and I , both seniors were down graded on 2 different trains. We went from a bedroom to coach. So any upgrade would be a blessing. This session of our vacation on our return trip to Richmond Virginia lasts 35 hours. Coach is going to be challenging. But any upgrade will help.Thanks for any leads and assistance.

 

[zephyr17]

A recent Zephyr had 301 + 3 other ALC 42s, an extra Amfleet cafe car and an extra sleeper (on top of the regular consist) making a 14 car total consist.

When I said "active consist" I meant not including any deadheads in the physical consist.

 

[John819]

And for those booked in the middle of Sept 2022, remember if freight railroaders go on strike most all Amtrak trains will be sitting as dispatchers will also be out. So if you leave on Sept 14 to California from Chicago a person may end up in Omaha! Now what a bummer.

Because of the absolutely devastating effect a strike would have on the economy and the food supply, Congress would probably impose a legislative settlement within a day.

 

[user 29618]

Reading this has me worried.
Can someone clarify this for me: I'm planning a trip from ATL to Seattle, with a sleeper or bedroom all the way. Is it correct that I could arrive in, say CHI, to find that my room on the EB had been cancelled, and if so, what exactly are my options? Will AMTRAK give me a full refund for the remainder of the trip if I don't accept a coach seat? Will I have to pay for a hotel room hoping that tomorrows train will have a sleeper available? Or what?
Thanks.

 

[zephyr17]

Reading this has me worried.
Can someone clarify this for me: I'm planning a trip from ATL to Seattle, with a sleeper or bedroom all the way. Is it correct that I could arrive in, say CHI, to find that my room on the EB had been cancelled, and if so, what exactly are my options? Will AMTRAK give me a full refund for the remainder of the trip if I don't accept a coach seat? Will I have to pay for a hotel room hoping that tomorrows train will have a sleeper available? Or what?
Thanks.

Well, the removal of car lines throughout this mess was done in advance, not the day of the trip. Amtrak wasn't notifying immediately after they removed car lines from service, but they did notify affected passengers in advance (even if not as far in advance as they could have). They refunded the accommodation charges and would do a full refund if the downgrade wasn't accepted.

It wasn't done on a day by day basis, the car lines were cut from the train entirely, so laying over would not do any good unless the remaining car had space the next day. In any case, it was up to the passenger to request modification of the reservation to a different day. They were not holding the price steady, if rebooking for a different day, the price would be current bucket and the passenger would have to pay the difference.

In any case, it is done now and the Seattle section of the Builder is now down to minimum consists, they really cannot cut the remaining sleeper.

You said "plan". That leaves whether or not you have a reservation unclear. If you have one in the next few months, you are probably good. If you have not booked yet (and intend on traveling in a Bedroom), call to book instead of using the website and make sure you are in the 730 car. That is the "base" sleeper for the train and won't get cut. If you were in a roomette, the 732 (transdorm) would be okay, too. Avoid the 731 car until this mess has definitively blown over.

 

[user 29618]

Thanks! I guess I get to play phone tag now.
I went from ATL to Baltimore a couple years ago by coach, and decided that was really too long a trip to sit thru. For me, cross country requires a bed.

 

[zephyr17]

Thanks! I guess I get to play phone tag now.
I went from ATL to Baltimore a couple years ago by coach, and decided that was really too long a trip to sit thru. For me, cross country requires a bed.

Price your trip using the website and remember fares can vary a lot, so it is best if you are flexible on travel days. Then book it with an agent so you can choose your car.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Just checked my reservations for Dec 18th. Our family room on the CZ was CANCELLED. No noticed I just found out by my weekly checking, on hold with consumer relations now…

Spent an hour plus with Guest relations. The 32 cars are gone until next summer from what they can tell. I asked why wasn’t I notified she said unfortunately Amtrak has been sending out the notification emails 2 weeks before the travel date. She agreed this was horrible since they know in most cases months in advance.

I was able to get a Senate staffer involved, since I had brought this subject up with them just this week, that helped immensely. Long story short Guest relations wasnt able to help us on the 18th but we got a small upgrade on 12/19 going from a family room to one bedroom and one roomette in the transition car not ideal but we had too many other travel plans that were non refundable we couldn’t cancel.

If you have any reservations in the 32 cars on any train check them weekly. Reading between the lines from what the guest relations agent and her supervisor said and implied this is being done deliberately at some level.

 

[Rasputin]

Just when you think it can't get any worse, Amtrak proves otherwise. They seem to be specialists at this and over and over again cause incalculable damage to their own business.

 

[GDRRiley]

There may have been deadheads of various types, possibly including bilevel California Cars being repatriated from Beech Grove.

There are only 2 dead California cars both cabs which are not planned at this time to be rebuilt.

The "equipment shortage" sob story for western trains started in the early 90s, when the Superliner II order was not big enough to reequip CONO, CL, and Auto-Train and the western trains got robbed, and got worse when the ATSF Hi-Levels were retired (the transdorm and the Los Angeles diner, and oftentimes 1 or 2 of the coaches, were Hi-Levels and not Superliners).

Still always confused why amtrak retired the hi levels. They should have just been rebuilt to use more superliner equipment if they weren't going to buy more stock. I believe almost all still exist being held by a leasing company.


Hopefully with the new LD coaches having a 4.2B budget they can get 800-100 new cars which would allow more trains and fix their equipment issues. Right now they are running on around 380 coaches

 

[Ryan]

Still always confused why amtrak retired the hi levels.

For the same reason you see very few 60 year old cars on the road?

 

[GDRRiley]

For the same reason you see very few 60 year old cars on the road?

the body being stainless steel was fine. put the thing on new trucks and a modern HVAC system they would have lasted till the 2030s when all superliners will go

 

[jis]

the body being stainless steel was fine. put the thing on new trucks and a modern HVAC system they would have lasted till the 2030s when all superliners will go

But there was no budget to do any of it. Just wishing it could be done does not appropriate funds. Retrucking can be quite expensive for example, leaving aside the cost of gut and rebuild.

 

[Ryan]

Even if there were the budget for it, buying a new car would almost certainly be cheaper than the design work and limited production run for a handful of cars. As someone that professionally supports a class of three oddball ships, there's a reason we're getting rid of as much of the bespoke crap as possible and going common with the rest of the fleet. Supply chain tails and engineering woes are EXPENSIVE.

There's a reason people buy new cars and don't replace the drivetrain on their '72 Pinto and keep driving it.

 

[user 14106]

If you have any reservations in the 32 cars on any train check them weekly. Reading between the lines from what the guest relations agent and her supervisor said and implied this is being done deliberately at some level.

This situation is problematic and certainly demands extensive advocacy attention to get to the bottom of it and put Amtrak on the hot seat on their plan to deal with the situation. But I think when dealing with policy makers it’s best to stick to the issues themselves and be cautious about making accusations about deliberate intentions. Such things aren’t really possible to prove and intentions are irrelevant - the issues themselves speak for themselves as far as demanding action. Conspiracy requires a certain amount of organization and cohesiveness. The organization appears to be quite disorganized with the leadership not really engaged with the field and lack of any coherent plan. Sounds more like incompetence across various layers of management and lack of communication and cohesiveness than ill intent combined with the legitimate operational challenges faced by the company. Either way what’s in the hearts of leadership is irrelevant - it’s an issue that warrants advocacy attention.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

My main issue in talking to two guest relations agents today including a senior supervisor was the fact I wasn’t notified. They stated they know and notifications only go out 2 weeks before travel dates. They have been asking for this to change for months but have faced resistance. There is going to be a whole lot of unhappy people over the holidays unless Amtrak starts notifying people in a timely manner.

My Senator and I have a letter from Kennith Altman Amtrak VP government affairs dated 10/5/22 saying Amtrak is not canceling trains or reservations. A week later (today) they canceled the reservation in question. We are sticking with the facts and seeing where this leads.

 

[user 14106]

My main issue in talking to two guest relations agents today including a senior supervisor was the fact I wasn’t notified. They stated they know and notifications only go out 2 weeks before travel dates. They have been asking for this to change for months but have faced resistance.
My Senator and I have a letter from Kennith Altman Amtrak VP government affairs dated 10/5/22 saying Amtrak is not canceling trains or reservations. A week later (today) they canceled the reservation in question. We are sticking with the facts and seeing where this leads.

Just to clarify I wasn’t implying that you weren’t just making a general cautionary statement.

 

[zephyr17]

Just checked my reservations for Dec 18th. Our family room on the CZ was CANCELLED. No noticed I just found out by my weekly checking, on hold with consumer relations now…

Spent an hour plus with Guest relations. The 32 cars are gone until next summer from what they can tell. I asked why wasn’t I notified she said unfortunately Amtrak has been sending out the notification emails 2 weeks before the travel date. She agreed this was horrible since they know in most cases months in advance.

I was able to get a Senate staffer involved, since I had brought this subject up with them just this week, that helped immensely. Long story short Guest relations wasnt able to help us on the 18th but we got a small upgrade on 12/19 going from a family room to one bedroom and one roomette in the transition car not ideal but we had too many other travel plans that were non refundable we couldn’t cancel.

If you have any reservations in the 32 cars on any train check them weekly. Reading between the lines from what the guest relations agent and her supervisor said and implied this is being done deliberately at some level.

Just a point of clarity on car line numbers, otherwise I agree with you entirely.

The cars safest from these cuts throughout this clown show are what I call the "base" sleepers. Second in safety are the transdorms.

On most Superliner trains the base sleeper is the 30 car line and the transdorm is the 40 car line. The at risk second sleeper is the 31 car line. With the following exceptions:

5/6 - base sleeper is the 31 car. Transdorm is the 40 car line. The risky second sleeper is the 32 car line.

7/8 - base sleeper is the 30 car line. Transdorm is the 32 car line. Risky second sleeper is the 31 car line. Note that both standard sleepers and transdorms as the 32 car line on various consists.

27/28. Doesn't generally have a second sleeper assigned. 30 car line is the base sleeper.

1/2. No second sleeper. 30 car line is safe.

21/22, 421/422. No second sleeper, no transdorm 30 car line should be safe.

11/14 - no transdorm. Up to 3 sleepers. Beware 31 and 32.

29/30-base sleeper car line 00, risky second sleeper 01.

Until this definitely blows over, always call for reservations and try to get placed in the "base" sleeper. This has been going on since May, first on the Builder, then on the SW Chief and finally the CZ. Do not treat any train as safe even if it is running a second sleeper today.

Finally, while they are not notifying people on timely basis, generally it seems that it will show on the app pretty much as soon as the cars are cut from inventory. If the car has been cut and the reservation cancelled, the reservation will stop showing a QR code in the app. For anyone holding sleeper reservations currently, I suggest checking the app every few days to make sure it looks okay. If it doesn't, call. You'll beat those pending the late notifications in getting any open base sleeper accommodations or on another day.

I do not excuse any aspect of Amtrak's handling of this. I only offer the information in the spirit that a little knowledge and insight can help make the best of a bad situation.

 

[yarrow]

plan to call agr tomorrow again. checked on these with agr a couple weeks ago and was told all was well but will check again tomorrow. we are on the cz glenwood springs to sacramento 10/29 car 531 rm 2. on the cz sacramento to glenwood springs 10/26 car 631 rm 2. does anyone have input on whether these are safe? thanks

 

[zephyr17]

plan to call agr tomorrow again. checked on these with agr a couple weeks ago and was told all was well but will check again tomorrow. we are on the cz glenwood springs to sacramento 10/29 car 531 rm 2. on the cz sacramento to glenwood springs 10/26 car 631 rm 2. does anyone have input on whether these are safe? thanks

As I said in the post just before yours, the "base" sleepers on 5/6 are the 31 car line. You should be safe, just keep checking the app regularly. No need to call, even the AGR agents won't know what is coming up until it officially happens (whether you are proactively notified is another issue). The app should show you if anything hits your reservation pretty much as soon as it happens. If it does, then call. AGR can't do anything for you until it happens, they are not privy to equipment planning and won't know.

 

[joelkfla]

My main issue in talking to two guest relations agents today including a senior supervisor was the fact I wasn’t notified. They stated they know and notifications only go out 2 weeks before travel dates. They have been asking for this to change for months but have faced resistance. There is going to be a whole lot of unhappy people over the holidays unless Amtrak starts notifying people in a timely manner.

My Senator and I have a letter from Kennith Altman Amtrak VP government affairs dated 10/5/22 saying Amtrak is not canceling trains or reservations. A week later (today) they canceled the reservation in question. We are sticking with the facts and seeing where this leads.

Lucky you to have a senator who takes you seriously. Both of mine just sent me irrelevant canned responses.