Superliner trains' removal and restoration of cars (2022-2023)

[Just-Thinking-51]

This means, if I am counting correctly, that fewer than 50 Superliner sleepers are in non-Auto-Train service, out of 119 built and about 100 still on the roster.

Not fact checking, but did you count the extra sleeper on the CL? Seem a wee bit low.

 

[Siegmund]

Not fact checking, but did you count the extra sleeper on the CL? Seem a wee bit low.

It may well be too low if the 2nd CZ and SWC sleepers are only missing from one or two sets not from all of them. My quick estimate was "how many does it take to put 1 sleeper on every Superliner train except CS and CL?" and came up with 6(7/8)+6(27/28)+6(5/6)+6(3/4)+3(1/2)+4(21/22)+3(58/59) + 8(11/14) + 6(29/30) = 48. (And there are some number of non-deluxe sleepers on the Auto Train.)
On further investigation, I see I failed to realize just how horribly inefficient the TE/SL equipment utilization is; that will add, I think, 4 more to the tally.
That also is pretending that all of the transdorms are running - there are, as we've seen this week, some number of transdorms out of service, and some number of full sleepers running in place of transdorms now. It may well be that closer to 70 of the 100 are in use.

100 sleepers can, in principle, put 2 on each train and 3 on some.

 

[Eric in East County]

As many of you will remember, early last June we had to cancel our LD trip to Ohio after our bedroom reservation on SWC No. 4 was shot out from under us when the second sleeper was replaced with a Trans-Dorm sleeper, and we couldn’t be downgrade because the train was sold out.

Rather than forego this year’s trip we decided to reschedule it to late September-early October.

On June 16th, Amtrak sold us round trip SWC bedroom accommodations (again in the second sleeper.) One of these was the last bedroom still available.

This morning, we received the following e-mail:

“We wanted to let you know that the [second] Sleeper Car has been removed from train #0004, the Southwest Chief, from Los Angeles Union Station on Tuesday, September 20th. We've changed your reservation to standard Coach seating and will refund you for the price difference.

We're sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks for being a valued Amtrak customer - we'll see you onboard.”

Since, as seniors, we’re no longer up to making a long-distance train trip in coach, we’ll be contacting Customer Relations to see about rescheduling our trip to June-July 2023 with the stipulation that our SWC bedrooms be in the first sleeper. We’ll keep you posted on how we make out.

Eric & Pat

This morning, we got up early and called Amtrak Customer Relations at 8:00 a.m., right when they opened. Within 9 minutes, we were talking to a Customer Relations agent who rescheduled all our reservations to June-July 2023.

We were able to obtain bedrooms in the 330 and 430 cars for the dates we wanted. (We’ll be in Bedroom D heading east and Bedroom E heading west.)

Although we’ll have to wait 10 months before our trip takes place, we feel reasonably confident that we won’t be downgraded in the event that there is an “equipment shortage” next summer.

We were also given a $300 credit voucher, so these new tickets ended up costing us the same price we’d originally paid last December for our June-July 2022 tickets.

As Nero Wolfe would say, “Satisfactory. Highly satisfactory.”

 

[Sidney]

This morning, we got up early and called Amtrak Customer Relations at 8:00 a.m., right when they opened. Within 9 minutes, we were talking to a Customer Relations agent who rescheduled all our reservations to June-July 2023.

We were able to obtain bedrooms in the 330 and 430 cars for the dates we wanted. (We’ll be in Bedroom D heading east and Bedroom E heading west.)

Although we’ll have to wait 10 months before our trip takes place, we feel reasonably confident that we won’t be downgraded in the event that there is an “equipment shortage” next summer.

We were also given a $300 credit voucher, so these new tickets ended up costing us the same price we’d originally paid last December for our June-July 2022 tickets.

As Nero Wolfe would say, “Satisfactory. Highly satisfactory.”

At least they gave you a decent credit voucher. That's the right thing to do for your inconvenience. Let's hope things are improved by next June. The last thing a customer who had booked a sleeper months in advance is the "downgraded to Coach". Hardly anybody would accept that.

 

[skeptic_rugs0o]

I decided to live dangerously. I had a reservation for this morning with a roomette on 632. I waited to see if it would get changed and as the day approached, It still showed my roomette on car 632. Indeed, it still showed 632 last night. Well, this morning, It now shows me on car 640. No disruption to my plan, but a last minute change.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

I decided to live dangerously. I had a reservation for this morning with a roomette on 632. I waited to see if it would get changed and as the day approached, It still showed my roomette on car 632. Indeed, it still showed 632 last night. Well, this morning, It now shows me on car 640. No disruption to my plan, but a last minute change.

Thank goodness you still have a roomette, even if it's in a different car!

 

[skeptic_rugs0o]

I decided to live dangerously. I had a reservation for this morning with a roomette on 632. I waited to see if it would get changed and as the day approached, It still showed my roomette on car 632. Indeed, it still showed 632 last night. Well, this morning, It now shows me on car 640. No disruption to my plan, but a last minute change.

As it turns out, there is a 632 car, so I don't know why I got moved at the last minute.

 

[briangannon]

The CZ arriving in Chicago today had three sleepers and a transition sleeper (plus a single-level cafe car behind the baggage car, go figure). I suspect that was because VIPs were onboard with the debut of the new engines (four total on this train).

 

[Bob Dylan]

The CZ arriving in Chicago today had three sleepers and a transition sleeper (plus a single-level cafe car behind the baggage car, go figure). I suspect that was because VIPs were onboard with the debut of the new engines (four total on this train).

Yep, SOP in all Industries when VIPs are around!

 

[Widfara]

If you rebook on the Zephyr, make sure you are in the 31 car. That is the "base" sleeper for the train and they cannot pull that without losing sleeper capacity entirely.

If you elect to switch to one of the other western trains, the 30 car is the "base" sleeper on those.

My ticket says car 640 on the CZ roomette xx on October 14th. What does this mean?

 

[UserNameRequired]

My ticket says car 640 on the CZ roomette xx on October 14th. What does this mean?

This should mean you are on the sleeper designated as the Trans dorm car. Amtrak employees are bunking on the sleeper too.

We were moved from a sleeper to the trans dorm for 2 days from now.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The CZ arriving in Chicago today had three sleepers and a transition sleeper (plus a single-level cafe car behind the baggage car, go figure). I suspect that was because VIPs were onboard with the debut of the new engines (four total on this train).

Seeing that we’re up to #s 313 & 314, and that 301 & 309 have been in service for awhile, it isn’t debuting them. They’re being delivered to Amtrak (to the Wilm DE shops).
I don’t know if any VIPs were on the train. More likely technicians & maintenance people since this is the first train to have only the new engines pulling it.

 

[billosborn]

I am traveling tomorrow on CZ 5(28) from Chicago to Sacramento. My friend and I are in a roomette in 0531, which from what I have read is a pretty "safe" sleeper as far as the risk of being downgraded to coach. Should I post my experiences from the trip elsewhere, either on a new thread or existing one?

Looking forward to a reasonablly ontime travel across the Rockies - I have seen them before, but my European friend is really looking forward to the scenery - it would be a shame if we are over 6 hours late and go through at night... I even uses a coupon to reserve coach seats for the following day from Denver is a big delay occurs. If we are reasonably ontime when arriving Monday morning, I will cancel them; I view the 25% cancellation fee as "insurance", so that my friend can see all of the sights, including the ones by the Colorado River

 

[joelkfla]

I am traveling tomorrow on CZ 5(28) from Chicago to Sacramento. My friend and I are in a roomette in 0531, which from what I have read is a pretty "safe" sleeper as far as the risk of being downgraded to coach. Should I post my experiences from the trip elsewhere, either on a new thread or existing one?

There is a separate forum for Trip Reports: Travelogues / Trip Reports

 

[Asher]

I am traveling tomorrow on CZ 5(28) from Chicago to Sacramento. My friend and I are in a roomette in 0531, which from what I have read is a pretty "safe" sleeper as far as the risk of being downgraded to coach. Should I post my experiences from the trip elsewhere, either on a new thread or existing one?

Looking forward to a reasonablly ontime travel across the Rockies - I have seen them before, but my European friend is really looking forward to the scenery - it would be a shame if we are over 6 hours late and go through at night... I even uses a coupon to reserve coach seats for the following day from Denver is a big delay occurs. If we are reasonably ontime when arriving Monday morning, I will cancel them; I view the 25% cancellation fee as "insurance", so that my friend can see all of the sights, including the ones by the Colorado River

Hopefully all goes well.

 

[zephyr17]

31 is the "base" sleeper on the Zephyr.

40 is the dormitory. It normally is a transdorm, but both the Builder and the Zephyr apparently have some consists where a standard sleeper is running in the dormitory's car line.

Both 31 and 40 should be pretty safe on the Zephyr, rule of thumb being the base sleeper and the dorm being generally immune to being cut. I say that with less confidence since @pennyk's report of getting bounced out of a bedroom in the SW Chief's 30 car, though.

 

[pennyk]

Both 31 and 40 should be pretty safe on the Zephyr, rule of thumb being the base sleeper and the dorm being generally immune to being cut. I say that with less confidence since @pennyk's report of getting bounced out of a bedroom in the SW Chief's 30 car, though.

I think my downgrade was an unsual situation. My friends in roomettes in the same were not affected. I believe I was extremely unlucky (and am still quite upset over it).

 

[Anderson]

It may well be too low if the 2nd CZ and SWC sleepers are only missing from one or two sets not from all of them. My quick estimate was "how many does it take to put 1 sleeper on every Superliner train except CS and CL?" and came up with 6(7/8)+6(27/28)+6(5/6)+6(3/4)+3(1/2)+4(21/22)+3(58/59) + 8(11/14) + 6(29/30) = 48. (And there are some number of non-deluxe sleepers on the Auto Train.)
On further investigation, I see I failed to realize just how horribly inefficient the TE/SL equipment utilization is; that will add, I think, 4 more to the tally.
That also is pretending that all of the transdorms are running - there are, as we've seen this week, some number of transdorms out of service, and some number of full sleepers running in place of transdorms now. It may well be that closer to 70 of the 100 are in use.

100 sleepers can, in principle, put 2 on each train and 3 on some.

So, you've traditionally had 2 on all of the trains except for 21/22 (TE, 1+transdorm) and 1/2 (SL, 1+transdorm), but the through sleeper as well (321/322 IIRC); one of the two Builder sections (I forget which, but I think it's the Portland section); and I think the CONO also tended to only have a single full sleeper.

The CONO and the Eagle were always a bit lighter on ridership than the rest of the trains. The Capitol Limited had lower raw ridership numbers, but that train also got about 60% of its ridership from CHI-WAS, CHI-PGH, and PGH-WAS (so literally the endpoints plus one intermediate stop) and IIRC adding Cleveland took that up by about another 6-8%, so that distorts the ridership count vs load factor picture. The Builder is strange because of the split; I know that sometimes one section would get two sleepers and a transdorm while at other times, one section would only have one sleeper (and no transdorm). The Southwest Chief would also occasionally only have 1+transdorm...I think that was seasonal.

On the other hand, the Coast Starlight would run with 2, sometimes 3, and I think occasionally even 4 (though I might be counting a full sleeper that'd been swapped in for a transdorm here) sleepers when it still had the PPC (which could absorb an extra 20 or so diners at lunch/dinner, which I think was key to being able to run with an additional sleeper without freezing coach pax out of the diner).

Of course, that's a point for annoyance at running these trains with fewer sleepers: With a Superliner, if you're freezing coach pax out of the diner, in theory three seatings in the diner should be able to accommodate about 5-6 full sleepers' worth of passengers (at "full" capacity): 84*3=252 "slots". With up to 42 pax per sleeper*, that'd give you about 6 sleepers' worth of capacity...but only if every room were filled to capacity, which is never the case. Assuming that each bedroom has two pax, each roomette has 1.5 pax (incl. the Accessible Room), and the Family Room has 4, that gives about 35 pax per sleeping car*. In theory you could actually accommodate 7.2 of those sleepers in a single dining car (yikes!), but let's assume that a table or two are out of commission. That brings you down to about 6.5-6.8 sleepers (depending on if one table or two are out of commission), probably a reasonable number if you're also selling a little space in the Transdorm.

*Remember, one roomette has to go to the SCA.

 

[JP1822]

Typically changes to consists don’t happen till October 1, but looks like Amtrak Is taking a swipe at this in September (post-Labor Day). So it should be interesting to see what sleepers get removed from from the Superliner based LD trains.

The CA Zephyr used to get three full Superliner Sleepers AND a Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper through Oct 1 - as part of peak summer season. Same for Empire Builder (When counting all up between Seattle and Portland sections). Now to go down to just ONE Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper and ONE regular Superliner Sleeper, this is a major “pinch” that’s being squeezed to a train that has a LOT of demand, different markets, and different segments being served than most of the Western Long Hauls. The CA Zephyr is like the last train to hold out with a semi-normal consist since pre-pandemic, other than adding a third sleeper line during peak season.

There’s no way that passengers will be able to be re-accommodated even on alternate days. Many of trips I booked on the CA Zephyr had me booking a sleeper from Chicago to Denver, and then involving two other sleeper car changes just to get all the way to Emeryville - in sleeper accommodation.

This is not good news for most. Displaces 6 Superliner Sleeping Cars. Is there any clue as to what other trains post Labor Day or post Oct 1 will be affected by equipment or potential labor shortages?

I presume the staffing includes the attendant in the adjoining regular Superliner sleeper taking care of the folks in the Superliner Trans-Dorm car?

If the Coast Starlight is operating with three regular Superliner SLeepers and the Capitol Limited with two regular Superliner SLeepers, can this be sustained into the Fall hopefully? Removing the sleepers will just displace the sleeping car attendant, which seems to be in short supply as it is.

Course this is based on the premise that all is a labor issue, not an equipment issue or some other sort of problem at hand. Very upsetting for a lot of people….. In general Amtrak ridership and financials are doomed with this continued reduction in capacity.

Looking forward to better times ahead. In the mean time - everyone needs to book in the “base sleeper” or the sleeper that’s in line right next to the Superliner Diner……

 

[Bob Dylan]

Typically changes to consists don’t happen till October 1, but looks like Amtrak Is taking a swipe at this in September (post-Labor Day). So it should be interesting to see what sleepers get removed from from the Superliner based LD trains.

The CA Zephyr used to get three full Superliner Sleepers AND a Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper through Oct 1 - as part of peak summer season. Same for Empire Builder (When counting all up between Seattle and Portland sections). Now to go down to just ONE Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper and ONE regular Superliner Sleeper, this is a major “pinch” that’s being squeezed to a train that has a LOT of demand, different markets, and different segments being served than most of the Western Long Hauls. The CA Zephyr is like the last train to hold out with a semi-normal consist since pre-pandemic, other than adding a third sleeper line during peak season.

There’s no way that passengers will be able to be re-accommodated even on alternate days. Many of trips I booked on the CA Zephyr had me booking a sleeper from Chicago to Denver, and then involving two other sleeper car changes just to get all the way to Emeryville - in sleeper accommodation.

This is not good news for most. Displaces 6 Superliner Sleeping Cars. Is there any clue as to what other trains post Labor Day or post Oct 1 will be affected by equipment or potential labor shortages?

I presume the staffing includes the attendant in the adjoining regular Superliner sleeper taking care of the folks in the Superliner Trans-Dorm car?

If the Coast Starlight is operating with three regular Superliner SLeepers and the Capitol Limited with two regular Superliner SLeepers, can this be sustained into the Fall hopefully? Removing the sleepers will just displace the sleeping car attendant, which seems to be in short supply as it is.

Course this is based on the premise that all is a labor issue, not an equipment issue or some other sort of problem at hand. Very upsetting for a lot of people….. In general Amtrak ridership and financials are doomed with this continued reduction in capacity.

Looking forward to better times ahead. In the mean time - everyone needs to book in the “base sleeper” or the sleeper that’s in line right next to the Superliner Diner……

Most of what you say is true, but in the case of the Texas Eaglete, there's only 1 Sleeper between San Antonio and Chicago, even on 421/422 Days, so the Crew takes up the 4 Downstair Roomettes( 11-14).

If Amtrak takes this Sleeper off, the 32+ Hour trip will remind one of what the SP did to the Sunset Ltd back in the "Train Off" Days before Amtrak!

 

[JP1822]

Most of what you say is true, but in the case of the Texas Eaglete, there's only 1 Sleeper between San Antonio and Chicago, even on 421/422 Days, so the Crew takes up the 4 Downstair Roomettes( 11-14).

If Amtrak takes this Sleeper off, the 32+ Hour trip will remind one of what the SP did to the Sunset Ltd back in the "Train Off" Days before Amtrak!

Yes, and I am now a bit fuzzy as to when this whole "single sleeper" action happened on the Eaglette when it ran as combined 21/22 and 421/422. For years the "run-through days" is when it was truly an Eagle and ran with the extra through cars - the through coach and sleeper comprising 421/422. I am surprised Amtrak is still doing this shuffle to be honest. Eliminating the shuffle would seemingly save at least one sleeper and one coach from being on "stand-by" at San Antonio.

I'd also like to know what drove the decision to give the Coast Starlight three regular Superliner Sleepers when most other consists are operating (or will be operating) with just one regular Superliner Sleeper. That third sleeper line requires sleeper car attendants (SCAs). If Amtrak does cut the Coast Starlight back to two sleepers, where will those SCAs be assigned to? In similar theory, where will the SCA assigned to the 532/632 car go to after Labor Day - among the work crews that do have adequate staff?

Continuing to add/subtract from Superliner LD consists affects the addition and subtraction of SCAs when SCAs are seemingly in limited supply. Empire Builder operated a second Seattle sleeper last year from July 1 to October 1. What happened to those SCAs operating the 2nd sleeper after Oct 1, 2021? This seems like a self-defeating circle that Amtrak is in.

Amtrak is going on months of not being able to provide capacity for its Midwest Corridor or Long Distance Trains, regardless of seasons. Demand is there.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Airlines and Amtrak received Lots of $$$ to Maintain their Staff during the Height of the Pandemic,which they DIDN'T do!

The Suits need to appear before Congress and held accountable for their misuse of this Money!

 

[thully]

Just booked the SWC for 9/24 on my way to the Gathering as a roomette became available. Turns out it’s in the transdorm - hope there’s no issue with that. Though I will be keeping the flight as a backup - not ideal, but works in my case.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just booked the SWC for 9/24 on my way to the Gathering as a roomette became available. Turns out it’s in the transdorm - hope there’s no issue with that. Though I will be keeping the flight as a backup - not ideal, but works in my case.

To answer your question about the Transdorm from your Post in the other Forum, the Roomettes that are Sold in the Transdorm are in the back half of the Car next to the Sleeper ( or other Car behind it)with the Crews psrt of the Car being the Front Part next to the Engine and the Downstairs Level.

The Crew has their own Combo Shower/Bathroom by the Stairs and yours will be close to your Roomette.

You may, or may not have your own SCA, but probably the attendant from the Revenue Sleeper will also attend your Car.

One tip: Ask the LSA to be sure and take your Meal Reservations, sometimes they forget to come to the Transdorm and of course Cozch Passengrrs can't currently eat in the Diner and on this Train the good times fill fast@

 

[user 14106]

The Airlines and Amtrak received Lots of $$$ to Maintain their Staff during the Height of the Pandemic,which they DIDN'T do!

The Suits need to appear before Congress and held accountable for their misuse of this Money!

This is somewhat misleading (at least about Amtrak.) Amtrak retained its staff for the period in which the CARES act funding was prescribed - to the end of FY20. That funding was not sufficient to maintain the status quo indefinitely into FY21- while they probably should have dipped into rainy day funds to keep people on as long as possible they were unwilling to do that - however on the other hand Amtrak did make this clear to Congress and mentioned what it would take to avoid the cuts in FY21. This funding was included in the Democratic HEROES act which never passed - the furloughs were largely due to the looming election and the fact that they decided to pass a CR instead of a meaningful relief bill that could avoid the cuts - so essentially Congress allowed the cuts to go ahead despite the warnings from Amtrak about their intentions they declined to act. While one can blame Amtrak for not dipping into capital or other sources to maintain staff - one can also blame Congress for declining to act when Amtrak made it very clear their intent - and as a result one could argue that Congress as a result gave its stamp of approval to the cuts. The cuts were not reversed until the American Rescue Plan which happened months later after the new Congress was seated. Amtrak did what they needed to - to the letter of the law. They didn't go further (Which I think most advocates would argue they should have given that most at the time believed the situation would get resolved after the election) but there is not really anything for Congress to say - they declined to pass relief when it could have stopped the cuts.