Texas Eagle discussion

[zephyr17]

The Texas Eagle is Amtrak’s worst long distance train for two reasons. Flex food and no sightseer car, two issues Amtrak could easily rectify but they choose not to

Maybe not so easily as long as they have 68 Superliners laid up, as has been reported by Jim Tilley of Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers

 

[Sidney]

Traditional dining, at least could be returned. Amtrak had a huge job fair a year and a half ago. Could’nt hire any cooks?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have a good reason to travel to San Antonio because my son and his wife moved there last summer. It would be nice to ride the train to see them but considering the cost of sleeper accommodations, lack of amenities due to downgraded service, and the likelihood of late arrival (they are early to bed, early to rise people) which forces a hotel room, the value proposition just isn't there. So, it will be Southwest Airlines instead.

My Travel Routine until the Eaglette is returned to its previous Consist and Menu!

 

[allanorn]

I wasn't intending on riding the TE, but after doing it end-to-end a couple of weeks ago I've come to appreciate it. I fully agree it needs full-service dining, at least one more sleeper (or a dorm/bag car), and an observation/lounge car would enhance the experience as an alternative to being tied to a room or a coach seat. I wonder if the market it serves doesn't have that "wow" factor so it's treated more like essential transportation vs. an experience such as the SWC or CZ.

I don't feel it's as bad as I was expecting based on previous reports. Staff were at least average, and we were able to eat in the cafe car for all meals - though seating arrangements were highly dependent on who was working the cafe car. The meals themselves weren't bad if you think of them as first-class domestic airline quality. Not great compared to a dining car, and you were aware it was a downgrade, but they were good enough to work.

If anything, I would like to see Texas get its act together with in-state rail. I was shocked at how many people were boarding in Austin for a once-daily train that took hours to get to Dallas/Ft. Worth. I think there's an untapped market for more frequent and higher-speed rail in Texas. I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime though. If it did happen I can see the TE either becoming more popular due to increased rail travel demand, or less popular because the popular segments are fulfilled using daytime coach trains.

Would I take the TE again? If it worked for my itinerary I'd consider it. Would not necessarily be my first choice though.

 

[daybeers]

Maybe not so easily as long as they have 68 Superliners laid up, as has been reported by Jim Tilley of Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers

Sounds like a problem they could at least rectify if they cared enough

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

If anything, I would like to see Texas get its act together with in-state rail.

If Illinois with a worse economy than Texas can subsidize high-speed rail on its regional trains, surely Texas could, too!

 

[MARC Rider]

If Illinois with a worse economy than Texas can subsidize high-speed rail on its regional trains, surely Texas could, too!

Well, in Illinois, Chicagoland's population (plus the other cities in the state) is much larger than that of the rural downstate. Texas, while it has some really large metro areas, has a much larger rural population, and so there's less political interest in intercity rail (not to mention state support for urban transit). Plus, there are cultural differences about property rights and so forth. Maybe at some point, the population of the urban areas will swamp that of the rural areas, and we'll see some changes in the politics of Texas and their transportation priorities.

 

[frequentflyer]

I wasn't intending on riding the TE, but after doing it end-to-end a couple of weeks ago I've come to appreciate it. I fully agree it needs full-service dining, at least one more sleeper (or a dorm/bag car), and an observation/lounge car would enhance the experience as an alternative to being tied to a room or a coach seat. I wonder if the market it serves doesn't have that "wow" factor so it's treated more like essential transportation vs. an experience such as the SWC or CZ.

I don't feel it's as bad as I was expecting based on previous reports. Staff were at least average, and we were able to eat in the cafe car for all meals - though seating arrangements were highly dependent on who was working the cafe car. The meals themselves weren't bad if you think of them as first-class domestic airline quality. Not great compared to a dining car, and you were aware it was a downgrade, but they were good enough to work.

If anything, I would like to see Texas get its act together with in-state rail. I was shocked at how many people were boarding in Austin for a once-daily train that took hours to get to Dallas/Ft. Worth. I think there's an untapped market for more frequent and higher-speed rail in Texas. I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime though. If it did happen I can see the TE either becoming more popular due to increased rail travel demand, or less popular because the popular segments are fulfilled using daytime coach trains.

Would I take the TE again? If it worked for my itinerary I'd consider it. Would not necessarily be my first choice though.

Been there and done that with the HSR thing. In the 90s, and recently the Texas rail thing between Metroplex and Houston.......errrrr...............hwy 290 and I- 610 interchange.

Can we have a group with a real business plan that we can get behind, instead of pie in the sky HSR designs? Calling Brightline.

 

[ShiningTimeStL]

Been there and done that with the HSR thing. In the 90s, and recently the Texas rail thing between Metroplex and Houston.......errrrr...............hwy 290 and I- 610 interchange.

Can we have a group with a real business plan that we can get behind, instead of pie in the sky HSR designs? Calling Brightline.

Southwest Airlines and their hired goons will murderize any plans to undercut intrastate travel profits on their home turf.

 

[frequentflyer]

Southwest Airlines and their hired goons will murderize any plans to undercut intrastate travel profits on their home turf.

Nope, in the 90s SWA's CEO Herb did fight it, but this time around the Texas railway whatever thing got SWA's blessing. SWA only have 25 gates at Love field, and do not want to waste them on low yielding 30 minutes shuttles to Houston Hobby. The only thing this group needed was actual money, and they did not have it. Like I stated, bring in Brightline and setup a 110-120 mph line DFW-HOU. Unless Japan's governement is going to fund it, lower one's expectations and costs.

And many do not know about the trans texas highway that was defeated but backed by then Gov. Rick Perry, which had a railroad component that could have connected major metro areas of Texas. So its not due to a lack of trying, can someone have a business plan that works, even it uses Federal money?

 

[jis]

Nope, in the 90s SWA's CEO Herb did fight it, but this time around the Texas railway whatever thing got SWA's blessing. SWA only have 25 gates at Love field, and do not want to waste them on low yielding 30 minutes shuttles to Houston Hobby. The only thing this group needed was actual money, and they did not have it. Like I stated, bring in Brightline and setup a 110-120 mph line DFW-HOU. Unless Japan's governemnt is going to fund it, lower one's expectations and costs.

Interestingly, Brightline had identified this corridor as one of the possibly viable corridors that they might look at, among the list of corridors they had published at one time. This was before they took on Las Vegas - LA Basin project, which was also on their list. They are pretty opportunistic, and are on the lookout for opportunities, though at present they may be feeling that they have their hands full.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Been there and done that with the HSR thing. [...] Can we have a group with a real business plan that we can get behind, instead of pie in the sky HSR designs? Calling Brightline.

Brightline, who would presumably start with little or no rail-adjacent property this time, would likely struggle to duplicate their real estate value improvement project in Texas. They also have plenty of unfinished work in FL, CA, and NV to chew on.

Like I stated, bring in Brightline and setup a 110-120 mph line DFW-HOU. Unless Japan's governement is going to fund it, lower one's expectations and costs.

You can save a lot by targeting freight speeds but building new 120MPH over new 200MPH does not save much.

And many do not know about the trans texas highway that was defeated but backed by then Gov. Rick Perry, which had a railroad component that could have connected major metro areas of Texas. So its not due to a lack of trying, can someone have a business plan that works, even it uses Federal money?

Greg Abbot, like Rick Perry before him, was briefly in favor of new intrastate passenger rail before he realized he was suddenly against it again. Who or what changed his mind matters little when his support is so flimsy and fleeting.

 

[AlamoWye]

Well, in Illinois, Chicagoland's population (plus the other cities in the state) is much larger than that of the rural downstate. Texas, while it has some really large metro areas, has a much larger rural population, and so there's less political interest in intercity rail (not to mention state support for urban transit). Plus, there are cultural differences about property rights and so forth. Maybe at some point, the population of the urban areas will swamp that of the rural areas, and we'll see some changes in the politics of Texas and their transportation priorities.

Actually, Texas' population is about 30 million. Top four metros, DFW,Houston,San Antonio, and Austin, total around 19 million. But because of gerrymandering the rural areas control the large cities in the legislative arena.

 

[MarkInAustin]

Well, in Illinois, Chicagoland's population (plus the other cities in the state) is much larger than that of the rural downstate. Texas, while it has some really large metro areas, has a much larger rural population, and so there's less political interest in intercity rail (not to mention state support for urban transit). Plus, there are cultural differences about property rights and so forth. Maybe at some point, the population of the urban areas will swamp that of the rural areas, and we'll see some changes in the politics of Texas and their transportation priorities.

MARC Rider is accurate in his analysis, but it should be pointed out, as Kay Bailey Hutchinson has done, that the growth engine in Texas is the "triangle" of DFW-Houston-San Antonio, with Austin on the San Antonio-DFW leg and Bryan/College Station on the DFW-Houston leg. It might be possible to marshal enough corporate lobbying from the triangle to upgrade the Eagle, if a high speed commuter run from DFW-Houston were added to the package.

More than thirty years ago Ben Barnes and John Connally were pushing this idea, BTW, and got pretty close, but were out foxed by Southwest Airlines when it came down to legislative action. At least, that is how I remember it, and perhaps some other old Texans can fill in the gaps in my history.

I found this article: https://tinyurl.com/2p844246

 

[allanorn]

Southwest Airlines were also under the Wright Amendment at the time, so they tried to kill anything that would crush their operations at Love Field.

That law was fully repealed in 2014, so that's one less potential hurdle.

 

[frequentflyer]

21 sitting in Marshall, trees down from last night storm has UP shut down in NE Texas. #2 is cancelling in San Antonio. Wonder how they will refuel the Genesis since they normally refuel on the east side of San Antonio. 22 is an hour late, and do not know what will happen to it once it gets to FTW. Amtrak may annull it there or detour it on the line that goes straight to Texarkana. A weird travel day in Texas.

 

[zephyr17]

21 sitting in Marshall, trees down from last night storm has UP shut down in NE Texas. #2 is cancelling in San Antonio. Wonder how they will refuel the Genesis since they normally refuel on the east side of San Antonio. 22 is an hour late, and do not know what will happen to it once it gets to FTW. Amtrak may annull it there or detour it on the line that goes straight to Texarkana. A weird travel day in Texas.

They can always run the power deadhead to the fuel pad, if not the whole train. Probably easier to just take the whole thing.

 

[Sidney]

21 sitting in Marshall, trees down from last night storm has UP shut down in NE Texas. #2 is cancelling in San Antonio. Wonder how they will refuel the Genesis since they normally refuel on the east side of San Antonio. 22 is an hour late, and do not know what will happen to it once it gets to FTW. Amtrak may annull it there or detour it on the line that goes straight to Texarkana. A weird travel day in Texas.

2 terminated in San Antonio because of a stalled freight near Pomona. It lost five hours and three additional the remainder of the way. Passengers were bussed East and North. I am one of them now on a bus bridge to Longview to catch 22 on the way to Chicago. Guess we’ll hear what is going to happen.

 

[allanorn]

21 sitting in Marshall, trees down from last night storm has UP shut down in NE Texas. #2 is cancelling in San Antonio. Wonder how they will refuel the Genesis since they normally refuel on the east side of San Antonio. 22 is an hour late, and do not know what will happen to it once it gets to FTW. Amtrak may annull it there or detour it on the line that goes straight to Texarkana. A weird travel day in Texas.

Just checked 21(15) and it just departed Longview 10 hours late. That train sat in Marshall for nine hours. 22(16) is about an hour in arrears but in Minneola as we speak.

 

[George Harris]

22 is an hour late, and do not know what will happen to it once it gets to FTW. Amtrak may annull it there or detour it on the line that goes straight to Texarkana. A weird travel day in Texas.

What direct line Dallas straight to Texarkana? There is no such animal. The direct ex Cotton Belt line is now a short line west of Mt. Pleasant, plus the last portions into Dallas itself are no longer in place. The best that could be done to bypass Longview and Marshall would be the ex-Cotton Belt line which crosses the ex MoPac route used by Amtrak at Big Sandy. It does go directly to Texarkana and is a few miles shorter-maybe, but then you would need to have crews that were qualified on the route.

 

[allanorn]

As of 12:01am CT on the 17th: 22(16) is stopped just east of Longview for freight delays and is now over five hours late. 21(15) is stopped west of Longview for some time (crew change?) and the initial estimate is that it'll arrive in Minneola some 15 hours late.

 

[allanorn]

As of 10am CT:

• 21(15) is potentially stopped at Cleburne some 17 hours behind schedule (currently: freight congestion). Apparently it sat between Longview and Minneola for eight hours waiting for crew, though with that delay I wouldn't be surprised if something else happened.
• 21(16) is only 90 minutes behind schedule approaching Marshall.
• 22(16) is eight hours behind schedule and just about to cross from Arkansas into Missouri.
• 22(17) is canceled because there's no train at SAS.

 

[Sidney]

I am on 22 now. My latest journey has been delay after delay. Boarded 422 in LA Wednesday night on time. A broken down freight was ahead of us in Pomona putting us five hours behind. Three more hours behind due to freight traffic. Told we were being bussed to Longview to catch up with 22 yesterday. Air conditioning in and out on the bus in 96 degree heat. Arrived at 9:30PM. Two hours later 22 arrived eight hours late. Had a connection on 50 in Chicago in a sleeper. Will miss it. Called Amtrak. Now I m staying in Springfield overnight and catch a train to Chicago tomorrow morning and then the Lake Shore to New York and Harrisburg in Coach. Capitol Limited totally sold out.

Will call Guest relations Tuesday morning seeking at least $200 in an e voucher. Got that immediately with no phone call when the Zephyr was 11 hours late into Chicago last March.

 

[frequentflyer]

21 delayed due to debris again.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Southwest Airlines were also under the Wright Amendment at the time, so they tried to kill anything that would crush their operations at Love Field. That law was fully repealed in 2014, so that's one less potential hurdle.

Southwest airlines was free to use DFW for longer flights just as American was free to use LUV for cheaper fees, despite their endless bickering. Watching two airlines fight over a moral high ground neither had earned or deserved was the height of hypocrisy. There was one airline that did get screwed over but we'll never hear AA, WN, or DFW talk about them.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business...n-in-judge-s-133-million-ruling-against-feds/

As of 10am CT:

• 21(15) is potentially stopped at Cleburne some 17 hours behind schedule (currently: freight congestion). Apparently it sat between Longview and Minneola for eight hours waiting for crew, though with that delay I wouldn't be surprised if something else happened.
• 21(16) is only 90 minutes behind schedule approaching Marshall.
• 22(16) is eight hours behind schedule and just about to cross from Arkansas into Missouri.
• 22(17) is canceled because there's no train at SAS.

What a mess. This kind of schedule keeping is not going to fly for working age people in 2023.
Is Amtrak able to expect compensation from the host RR's yet, and if not what is holding it up?