The Boeing MAX 8 Accidents

[Dakota 400]

As a Boeing shareholder and having sent a request to their Investor Relations Office requesting the results of the votes recorded at the Annual Meeting and receiving no response in answer to my inquiry other than the initial "we've received your e-mail and will be in touch soon". Granted, I don't own millions of shares of Boeing. But, when Anheuser-Busch existed, this shareholder's request for information was honored and done so with appreciation. I didn't own millions of A-B shares then, either.

 

[ehbowen]

As a Boeing shareholder and having sent a request to their Investor Relations Office requesting the results of the votes recorded at the Annual Meeting and receiving no response in answer to my inquiry other than the initial "we've received your e-mail and will be in touch soon". Granted, I don't own millions of shares of Boeing. But, when Anheuser-Busch existed, this shareholder's request for information was honored and done so with appreciation. I didn't own millions of A-B shares then, either.

No disinfectant quite as effective as sunlight....

 

[Dakota 400]

May 15th, a hearing during a committee of the House of Representatives involving administrators from the FAA and NSTB concerning the 737 MAX accidents: a site that I follow such issues concluded from the testimony that the NSTA is singularly concerned about aviation safety; the FAA, not so much.

 

[jis]

May 15th, a hearing during a committee of the House of Representatives involving administrators from the FAA and NSTB concerning the 737 MAX accidents: a site that I follow such issues concluded from the testimony that the NSTA is singularly concerned about aviation safety; the FAA, not so much.

Are both NSTA and NSTB both supposed to be NTSB?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

May 15th, a hearing during a committee of the House of Representatives involving administrators from the FAA and NSTB concerning the 737 MAX accidents: a site that I follow such issues concluded from the testimony that the NSTA is singularly concerned about aviation safety; the FAA, not so much.

Like many other US regulatory agencies the FAA is intentionally hobbled with the often mutually exclusive motives of both regulating and promoting the industry they oversee. Whereas the NTSB is tasked with clear and obvious goals but given no teeth with which to enforce their solutions. The system is not flawed or broken; it is operating in the precise manner for which it was designed. The fact that it requires a pile of dead bodies to fix anything is no accident.

 

[Dakota 400]

Are both NSTA and NSTB both supposed to be NTSB?

Sorry. I hit the wrong key. Meant to say NSTB and not NSTA.

 

[Dakota 400]

The system is not flawed or broken; it is operating in the precise manner for which it was designed. The fact that it requires a pile of dead bodies to fix anything is no accident.

I think the system is broken from what I have read. FAA is too cozy with Boeing. Boeing's current Executives are concerned about the corporate balance sheet and "beating Airbus" foremost.

 

[jis]

Sorry. I hit the wrong key. Meant to say NSTB and not NSTA.

Nope. You actually meant to say NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) not NSTB.

 

[basketmaker]

Go back to cable and not wire. Still prefer Boeing vs Airbus but will take Amtrak whenever possible. Buy American.

 

[Dakota 400]

Nope. You actually meant to say NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) not NSTB.

Thanks for correction #2!

 

[flitcraft]

My husband worked at Boeing as an engineer for more than 30 years--now retired--and he's not at all surprised by what is unfolding. Among other issues, the continual re-working of the 737's design over the years has resulted in changes and modifications being made by recently graduated design engineers unable to read the legacy code of the original designs. As senior engineers have been pushed into retirement, no one who knows legacy code languages remain. At least the 787's were designed from the ground up! (Though the outsourcing of many aspects of the plane's design and manufacture created its own challenges with inconsistencies as the aircraft were assembled.) Still, I happily fly on the 787 myself.

In another interesting twist, I was contacted by a media outlet concerning the fact that the Boeing CEO asked for and got the Board to pay for personal legal counsel for him. Clearly the only reasons why a CEO would need to worry about personal liability is if there was a risk of liability for fraud or if there is a potential for personal criminal liability. As a shareholder of Boeing (well, via community property!) I wonder why corporate funds are being used in that way...

 

[Asher]

My husband worked at Boeing as an engineer for more than 30 years--now retired--and he's not at all surprised by what is unfolding. Among other issues, the continual re-working of the 737's design over the years has resulted in changes and modifications being made by recently graduated design engineers unable to read the legacy code of the original designs. As senior engineers have been pushed into retirement, no one who knows legacy code languages remain. At least the 787's were designed from the ground up! (Though the outsourcing of many aspects of the plane's design and manufacture created its own challenges with inconsistencies as the aircraft were assembled.) Still, I happily fly on the 787 myself.

In another interesting twist, I was contacted by a media outlet concerning the fact that the Boeing CEO asked for and got the Board to pay for personal legal counsel for him. Clearly the only reasons why a CEO would need to worry about personal liability is if there was a risk of liability for fraud or if there is a potential for personal criminal liability. As a shareholder of Boeing (well, via community property!) I wonder why corporate funds are being used in that way...

Yeah, I agree. They seemed to have gone to the well one too many times with that latest rev. Of the 37

 

[jis]

Basically, the last rev really needed to include a new wing and landing gear. But financially that was viewed to be a bridge too far apparently. So here we are where we are.

 

[noflyzone]

Go back to cable and not wire. Still prefer Boeing vs Airbus but will take Amtrak whenever possible. Buy American.

"Buy American" ? What about all those starving workers at Huawei ???

 

[jis]

A relatively well balanced video on the Max 8 issue and the history of evolution of the relationship between the FAA and the industry, and the role played by the Congress and the President (s) fostering the development of the current state of affairs.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing...onths-trade-group-says-11559117714?mod=e2tweu

 

[caravanman]

This guy ought to know what he is talking about...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/19/politics/chesley-sullenberger-boeing-737-max-scenario/index.html

 

[Dakota 400]

On NBC Nightly News this evening, more not encouraging news about the software fix for the 737 MAX.

 

[jis]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...t-demands-for-boeing-before-max-can-fly-again

Looks like EASA plans to do its own evaluation and decision making on the MAX, and is not going to rubber stamp whatever the FAA says. In the process it may place additional requirements on Boeing. And all this even before one takes into consideration that the Chinese authorities plan to recertify the plane after a ground up evaluation.

Boeing still claims September, but as time passes that appears to be optimistic.

I noticed that in a November reservation that I have on a United itinerary there is a MAX9 on a MCO - IAH flight. Of course all that is subject to adjustments. I just had a 757 subbed in for a 738 on a EWR - MCO flight weekend after next.

 

[PVD]

UA doesn't even have too much left in storage....a few 319, a couple of 757, a 767, and a couple of 737-NG..

 

[jis]

They are getting a whole bunch of second hand A319s and 320s coming on line in the near future.

They lost one ETOPS 757 at Newark the other week on a botched landing. Apparently the damage is so severe that the plane will be scrapped.

My guess is by November that MAX may indeed be flying again, unless some other skeleton tumbles out of the cupboard.

 

[jiml]

Sister left last night on an A-319 subbing for 737MAX headed for Iceland. Seems like a long overwater flight for such a small plane, but I've been on worse.

 

[jis]

I have flown on a 737BBJ flown by PrivatAir on an LH flight code shared with United, all the way from Stuttgart to Newark one time. It was actually a very pleasant flight on the all Business Class plane. This was many years back.

 

[PVD]

United hadn't received too many Max at the time of the grounding. They can delay withdrawing the aircraft they would have retired when the new planes were delivered. They are probably affected less than many other airlines.

 

[jis]

They have 14 MAX 9s, and no MAX 8s.

 

[NW cannonball]

I don't fear Sun Country 737's but they are older.
If you want to see how old the basic 737 design is -- google "Boeing 737 trim wheels" or similar. The "Max" still has the semiautomatic hand-crank trim wheels and a procedure to nose-up -- nose-down the plane when those trim wheels get stuck -- because they are immovable under pressure. The automated system disabled that old-time pilot control and nobody told nobody.