Trying to Improve Amtrak Schedules in Ohio

[Seaboard92]

And Max I need to figure out the milepost in those towns and I can get you a realistic schedule

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Well, assuming Amtrak mileposts

From May 1971,

Indianapolis IN 810

Terre Haute IN 882

Effingham IL 950

St Louis MO 1050

which turns into

Indianapolis IN 0

Terre Haute IN 72

Effingham IL 140

St Louis MO 240.

So 240 miles, which I estimated to be 7 hours, which is about 34 to 35 miles per hour.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Are we all in agreement now about this issue?

IND-STL will be put at 5 hours for now.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Could Amtrak not look at rerouting the SWC at Kansas away from Chicago (perhaps leaving a spur on the original route?) down to St Louis (replacing one of the Missouri River Runner Services so no additional slots required on this stretch) then from St Louis run to Washington via IND as a replacement of the Cardinal and thus giving Amtrak a true coast to coast service avoiding the need to change in Chicago which surely puts off a number of potential passengers??

Im assuming a LD can run at the same speed as the Missouri River Runner(??) so leaving the SWC times roughly alone between LA & KAN and the 5 hours running between IND-STL as above gives you the below if my maths is correct?

EB

DEPART KAN 8:15PM

DEPART STL 2:00PM

ARRIVE IND 8:00PM

ARRIVE CIN 11:15PM

ARRIVE WASH 3:20PM

WB

DEPART WASH 6:00PM

DEPART CIN 8:40AM

DEPART IND 1:00PM

DEPART STL 5:00PM

ARRIVE KAN 10:40PM

All stations west of KAN +1 hour compared to current timetable

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Could Amtrak not look at rerouting the SWC at Kansas away from Chicago (perhaps leaving a spur on the original route?) down to St Louis (replacing one of the Missouri River Runner Services so no additional slots required on this stretch) then from St Louis run to Washington via IND as a replacement of the Cardinal and thus giving Amtrak a true coast to coast service avoiding the need to change in Chicago which surely puts off a number of potential passengers??

Im assuming a LD can run at the same speed as the Missouri River Runner(??) so leaving the SWC times roughly alone between LA & KAN and the 5 hours running between IND-STL as above gives you the below if my maths is correct?

EB

DEPART KAN 8:15PM

DEPART STL 2:00PM

ARRIVE IND 8:00PM

ARRIVE CIN 11:15PM

ARRIVE WASH 3:20PM

WB

DEPART WASH 6:00PM

DEPART CIN 8:40AM

DEPART IND 1:00PM

DEPART STL 5:00PM

ARRIVE KAN 10:40PM

All stations west of KAN +1 hour compared to current timetable

So what happens to a passenger who wants to go from CHI to LAX? Take the SL/TE and spend an extra day traveling? The SWC is the fastest train from CHI to the West Coast and LAX is the most popular west coast destination to/from CHI. No way we want to reroute that train away from CHI.

I'd be in favor of rerouting the TE from STL to IND and to the East Coast if we could add through cars from KCY to SAS to the SWC to preserve CHI-Texas direct service. Or add through cars off the TE at STL to give the service you are proposing.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Could Amtrak not look at rerouting the SWC at Kansas away from Chicago (perhaps leaving a spur on the original route?) down to St Louis (replacing one of the Missouri River Runner Services so no additional slots required on this stretch) then from St Louis run to Washington via IND as a replacement of the Cardinal and thus giving Amtrak a true coast to coast service avoiding the need to change in Chicago which surely puts off a number of potential passengers??

Im assuming a LD can run at the same speed as the Missouri River Runner(??) so leaving the SWC times roughly alone between LA & KAN and the 5 hours running between IND-STL as above gives you the below if my maths is correct?

EB

DEPART KAN 8:15PM

DEPART STL 2:00PM

ARRIVE IND 8:00PM

ARRIVE CIN 11:15PM

ARRIVE WASH 3:20PM

WB

DEPART WASH 6:00PM

DEPART CIN 8:40AM

DEPART IND 1:00PM

DEPART STL 5:00PM

ARRIVE KAN 10:40PM

All stations west of KAN +1 hour compared to current timetable

So what happens to a passenger who wants to go from CHI to LAX? Take the SL/TE and spend an extra day traveling? The SWC is the fastest train from CHI to the West Coast and LAX is the most popular west coast destination to/from CHI. No way we want to reroute that train away from CHI.

I'd be in favor of rerouting the TE from STL to IND and to the East Coast if we could add through cars from KCY to SAS to the SWC to preserve CHI-Texas direct service. Or add through cars off the TE at STL to give the service you are proposing.

When I suggested a spur line I was thinking on the lines of like the LSL where the train would split at kansas, with the suitable capacity allocated to each service.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Could Amtrak not look at rerouting the SWC at Kansas away from Chicago (perhaps leaving a spur on the original route?) down to St Louis (replacing one of the Missouri River Runner Services so no additional slots required on this stretch) then from St Louis run to Washington via IND as a replacement of the Cardinal and thus giving Amtrak a true coast to coast service avoiding the need to change in Chicago which surely puts off a number of potential passengers??

Im assuming a LD can run at the same speed as the Missouri River Runner(??) so leaving the SWC times roughly alone between LA & KAN and the 5 hours running between IND-STL as above gives you the below if my maths is correct?

EB

DEPART KAN 8:15PM

DEPART STL 2:00PM

ARRIVE IND 8:00PM

ARRIVE CIN 11:15PM

ARRIVE WASH 3:20PM

WB

DEPART WASH 6:00PM

DEPART CIN 8:40AM

DEPART IND 1:00PM

DEPART STL 5:00PM

ARRIVE KAN 10:40PM

All stations west of KAN +1 hour compared to current timetable

So what happens to a passenger who wants to go from CHI to LAX? Take the SL/TE and spend an extra day traveling? The SWC is the fastest train from CHI to the West Coast and LAX is the most popular west coast destination to/from CHI. No way we want to reroute that train away from CHI.

I'd be in favor of rerouting the TE from STL to IND and to the East Coast if we could add through cars from KCY to SAS to the SWC to preserve CHI-Texas direct service. Or add through cars off the TE at STL to give the service you are proposing.

When I suggested a spur line I was thinking on the lines of like the LSL where the train would split at kansas, with the suitable capacity allocated to each service.

Oh, I can see that. I am assuming you mean 8:15AM for Kansas City.

 

[Eric S]

Split at Kansas? Just somewhere in the state of Kansas?

Or split at Kansas City, MO?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

(I'm assuming British or Australian) guy said there would be a spur (or split, I would say) from KCY-CHI.

LAX 555P

KCY 709A

KCY 758A

CHI 330P

KCY 745A

STL 125P/145P

IND 745P/759P

CIN 1127P/1137P

CVS 1110A/1119A

WAS 219P

NYP 558P

NYP 1245P

WAS 500P

CVS 743P/752P

CIN 731A/741A

IND 1115A/1145A

STL 345P/400P

KCY 940P

CHI 300P

KCY 1011P

KCY 1045P

LAX 815A

Still worried about Seaboard's comment on there being plenty of opportunities for delays from IND to STL.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Split at Kansas? Just somewhere in the state of Kansas?

Or split at Kansas City, MO?

Well, where would you split the train beside Kansas City MO?

 

[Eric S]

Split at Kansas? Just somewhere in the state of Kansas?

Or split at Kansas City, MO?

Well, where would you split the train beside Kansas City MO?

That's my point. The poster kept referring to "Kansas" and not "Kansas City" - they are not the same thing.

 

[Palmetto]

There was an brief blurb today from WLWT in Cincy [sorry, no link] that says the state DOT is going to spend 2.1 billion dollars in the state's transportation network. No mention of spending any of it on passenger rail. Not surprising. Roads, roads, roads. Oh, and bridges for the roads.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

There was an brief blurb today from WLWT in Cincy [sorry, no link] that says the state DOT is going to spend 2.1 billion dollars in the state's transportation network. No mention of spending any of it on passenger rail. Not surprising. Roads, roads, roads. Oh, and bridges for the roads.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/nearly-21-billion-to-be-invested-in-ohios-transportation-network/38752524

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Expected.

 

[Palmetto]

There was an brief blurb today from WLWT in Cincy [sorry, no link] that says the state DOT is going to spend 2.1 billion dollars in the state's transportation network. No mention of spending any of it on passenger rail. Not surprising. Roads, roads, roads. Oh, and bridges for the roads.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/nearly-21-billion-to-be-invested-in-ohios-transportation-network/38752524

Thank you!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/66254-phl-chi-route-options

 

[jis]

CSX is reported to be about to downgrade a significant part of what is supposed to be the 3C Corridor according to the following article from All Aboard Ohio:

http://allaboardohio.org/2016/04/13/one-fourth-of-3c-may-be-downgraded/

Incidentally there is a nice attached map showing CSX routes in Ohio and Indiana, Among other things it clearly shows the high grade route between Indy and St. Louis.

http://allaboardohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CSX-map-2010.jpg

 

[jis]

I found this neat timetable page image of 3C service before it was discontinued:

http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-chiflcincleind-10-1-70_2.jpg

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

That's 6 hours of travel time. Not sure if the tracks are that fast now, especially with the downgrading.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I found this neat timetable page image of 3C service before it was discontinued:

http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-chiflcincleind-10-1-70_2.jpg

On New Year's Eve, 1970, I traveled on PC Train 15 from Columbus to Cleveland to board the Chicago to Boston and New York City no name train which also picked up cars from Detroit in Buffalo. I had a roomette from Cleveland to Albany since the Boston train was coach only with a snack bar. The train did have a dining car that went from Chicago to New York. I enjoyed breakfast on New Year's morning as we plowed through a snow storm. The Columbus-Cleveland train was 1 coach on the end of several baggage and mail cars.

 

[Anderson]

Sounds like they were basically timetabling a baggage/mail run rather than trying to actually accommodate pax.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I found this neat timetable page image of 3C service before it was discontinued:

http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-chiflcincleind-10-1-70_2.jpg

So there were two separate trains, one CIN-Columbus and one Columbus-CLE? Makes no sense to me. Especially northbound (southbound you had a 20 minute window).

I don't see the point of an IND-CLE train (315/316) with no major cities in between and I don't really see a large market of passengers wanting to go between the two cities.

Complete map between the East Coast and Chicago/St. Louis: http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-east-west-10-27-68_1.jpg

There was a train called the Penn Texas (http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-east-west-10-27-68_2.jpg), westbound #3, eastbound #4 between NYP and STL via PGH, Columbus, and IND. Did that go through to Texas via another rail line or did you have to transfer in STL to another train? I would say that's still better than what what we have now though between the NEC and Texas. What was the main passenger rail line(s) that served Texas before Amtrak?

 

[Seaboard92]

The Penn Texas connected to the Missouri Pacific, Frisco, and KATY trains that ran from St Louis to Texas. While the train itself the Penn Texas terminates in St Louis it might have had thru cars

 

[jphjaxfl]

The Penn Texas connected to the Missouri Pacific, Frisco, and KATY trains that ran from St Louis to Texas. While the train itself the Penn Texas terminates in St Louis it might have had thru cars

The Pennsylvania's Penn Texas did, indeed, have through Sleeping Cars which were switched in St. Louis to the two major rail lines that ran from St. Louis to Texas. The Missouri Pacific operated the Texas Eagle in 2 sections(sometimes 3). The South Texas Eagle #1 departed St. Louis at 5:30PM for Little Rock, Texarkana, Longview, Palestine, Austin, San Antonio, Loredo, Nuevo Loredo, Monterey and Mexico City. The Houston section #31 broke off of the main train at Palestine with through cars to Houston and Galveston. The West Texas Eagle #21 departed St. Louis at 5:35PM following the same route as #1 to Longview and then west to Dallas, Fort Worth, Big Spring and El Paso with through cars via the Southern Pacific to Tuscan, Phoenix and Los Angeles. The Penn Texas carried through Sleeping Cars from New York to the Texas Eagle destinations of San Antonio, Houston and Fort Worth. The Penn Texas also carried through Sleeping Cars from the Penn Texas to Texas points via the Texas Special which departed St. Louis on the Frisco Railroad and switched to the KATY in Oklahoma. There were through cars to Dallas and Houston. New York Central and B&O Railroad also carried through Sleeping Cars from New York and Washington via St. Louis to the major Texas cities. Some of the cars were even painted in MoPac or Frisco/KATY colors. There were many rail lines with passenger service in Texas as late as the early 1960s.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I found this neat timetable page image of 3C service before it was discontinued:

http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-chiflcincleind-10-1-70_2.jpg

So there were two separate trains, one CIN-Columbus and one Columbus-CLE? Makes no sense to me. Especially northbound (southbound you had a 20 minute window). These were what was left of long distance trains that had been cut back. The Cleveland-Columbus was what was left of New York Central's Ohio State Limited. The Columbus - Cincinnati train was the what was left of Pennsylvania's Cincinnati Limited. That's the way the private railroads chased off passengers by cutting back trains except in some cases they had mail contracts they had to honor.

I don't see the point of an IND-CLE train (315/316) with no major cities in between and I don't really see a large market of passengers wanting to go between the two cities.

Complete map between the East Coast and Chicago/St. Louis: http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-east-west-10-27-68_1.jpg

There was a train called the Penn Texas (http://penncentral.railfan.net/pc-ptt/pc-ptt-east-west-10-27-68_2.jpg), westbound #3, eastbound #4 between NYP and STL via PGH, Columbus, and IND. Did that go through to Texas via another rail line or did you have to transfer in STL to another train? I would say that's still better than what what we have now though between the NEC and Texas. What was the main passenger rail line(s) that served Texas before Amtrak?