What would you add?

[CCC1007]

The San Joaquin trains should be extended to LA to give more than 1 daily train between LA and the bay area.

That won't happen because UP would fight it tooth and nail due to the extremely heavy freight traffic over the Tehachapi Pass. In addition, the current Thruway bus connection is much faster than the route over the Tehachapi Pass. OTOH, if/when the California HSR is built between BFD and LAX, then we may finally get passenger trains between those two cities.

Could the pass be renovated to add more capacity?

Short answer, no. There isn’t a reasonable way to increase capacity on the pass. You would need either a new alignment or over a dozen tunnels would need to be changed.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[NSC1109]

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto.

Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with 350-355 and 360-363 terminating there and 356-359 continuing to Pontiac.

Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules.

Add 372/373 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH.

Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though.

360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati.

368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service under the "Michigander" name, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City.

*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station.

NATIONAL NETWORK:

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to ALB and then split to BOS/NYP.

Broadway Limited between NYP and Chicago, in LSL's old time slot.

WISCONSIN/MINNESOTA SERVICES:

North Coast Limited (instead of North Coast Hiawatha to avoid confusion with the current Hiawatha), CHI-MSP on a schedule akin to the Wolverine's current schedule.

Expand the Hiawatha schedule to include two more pairs.

ILLINOIS SERVICES:

Reinstatement of the Black Hawk, Chicago to Dubuque, IA, under numbers 374-377

Implementation of service to the Quad Cities under the "Quad Cities Zephyr" banner, number 385-388.

Additional trains for the Lincoln Service.

WESTERN SERVICES:

An additional pair for the Missouri River Runner

Prarie Star (KCY-DEN), numbers 401-406.

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416

 

[Pere Flyer]

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto.

Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with 350-355 and 360-363 terminating there and 356-359 continuing to Pontiac.

Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules.

Add 372/373 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH.

Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though.

360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati.

368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service under the "Michigander" name, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City.

*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station.

All great and logical proposals as far as city pairings. Don’t forget a second, mirror frequency of the Pere Marquette.

 

[SarahZ]

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

[lots of great ideas]

All great and logical proposals as far as city pairings. Don’t forget a second, mirror frequency of the Pere Marquette.

I love all of this. It makes sense, and it's a good plan.

 

[railiner]

Aw heck, let's just restore all the trains that ran in 1956....

and the railroads they ran on...

 

[ainamkartma]

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416

Front Range Flyer is desperately needed, but should go Cheyenne-Fo Co-Longmont-Boulder-Denver-C Springs-Pueblo-Trinidad, not Denver to Albuquerque. Just look at the highways: from Pueblo to Cheyenne, I-25 and all secondary roads are chronically backed up; from Trinidad to ABQ, very underutilized. I don't think a mountain division train can compete when cars on the parallel highway are going 85 mph.

Ainamkartma

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416

Front Range Flyer is desperately needed, but should go Cheyenne-Fo Co-Longmont-Boulder-Denver-C Springs-Pueblo-Trinidad, not Denver to Albuquerque. Just look at the highways: from Pueblo to Cheyenne, I-25 and all secondary roads are chronically backed up; from Trinidad to ABQ, very underutilized. I don't think a mountain division train can compete when cars on the parallel highway are going 85 mph.

Ainamkartma

Thing is, the railroads are backed up around CO Springs, too.

Also, I'd think there'd be some passengers wanting to go from Denver to New Mexico without driving in traffic a third of the way. That can only happen if PTC is installed on NMRX tracks, though. Maybe send it up the slow & windy tracks from Lamy to Santa Fe

 

[ainamkartma]

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416

Front Range Flyer is desperately needed, but should go Cheyenne-Fo Co-Longmont-Boulder-Denver-C Springs-Pueblo-Trinidad, not Denver to Albuquerque. Just look at the highways: from Pueblo to Cheyenne, I-25 and all secondary roads are chronically backed up; from Trinidad to ABQ, very underutilized. I don't think a mountain division train can compete when cars on the parallel highway are going 85 mph.

Ainamkartma

Thing is, the railroads are backed up around CO Springs, too.

I would suggest that the most practical way to implement a Front Range Flyer is on new right of way... because a passenger service which is busy competing with slow (and effectively unscheduled) freight drags can't compete effectively with the automobile.

Colorado has proven it is willing to build highways (E470, etc. etc.) and trains (Denver LRT and commuter rail) on new right of way in the modern era. There is no absolute reason that model couldn't be extended to the Front Range Flyer.

The thing about the (Fo Co to Pueblo) Front Range Flyer is not that it would be easy to implement: it's that if it _were_ implemented properly, it would immediately be very heavily used.

Ainamkartma

 

[JRR]

All I want is New Orleans to Orlando!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

All I want is for it to be easy to run some train cars down some track! I don't want to worry about bad accounting or expensive dining service or siding lengths or train safety (already safer than the ever-popular car) or funding shortages or bad CEOs. Just drive it down and lay down some concrete slabs for people to wait on!

 

[cpotisch]

All I want is New Orleans to Orlando!

That really is desperately needed. Florida is so isolated from everyone else and it's near impossible to go cross country from there anymore.

 

[Bob Dylan]

All I want is New Orleans to Orlando!

That really is desperately needed. Florida is so isolated from everyone else and it's near impossible to go cross country from there anymore.

Not gonna happen in most of our Lifetimes since the States involved don't want to put up the $$$ and Amtrak doesn't have it!

 

[cpotisch]

All I want is New Orleans to Orlando!

That really is desperately needed. Florida is so isolated from everyone else and it's near impossible to go cross country from there anymore.

Not gonna happen in most of our Lifetimes since the States involved don't want to put up the $$$ and Amtrak doesn't have it!

That's what's especially frustrating. All the tracks and ROW are already there, but it's just the funding and lack of political willpower that prohibit it.

 

[west point]

That's what's especially frustrating. All the tracks and ROW are already there, but it's just the funding and lack of political willpower that prohibit it.

Would like to add to political will the political will to fund more equipment

 

[west point]

Would like to clarify our post about political will to add more equipment. Purely hypothetical so if -----------

1. $1B for say 250 additional cars + another $300M for locos.

2. Then it probably would take another $1.1B for facilities and training additional maintenance personnel.

3.. Facilities you ask ? Here are the problems. Any yard needs to have no more than 80% of space taken up to allow for maneuvering cars around to make up consists and move bad order cars to RIP tracks. These problems may have significance for Amtrak being able to lengthen some of its LD trains ?. Remember many RRs downgraded and sold parts of their yards and facilities in the past especially PRR, PC, Conrail . Also many locations has seen a big increase in commuter running equipment. Understand that 80% figure also applies to freight yards.

a. BOS yard is full and right now cannot easily take more than an 8 car train especially in winter.

b. New Haven MNRR has used up all available space

c. NY Sunnyside is full with the many NJ Transit trains during the daytime rush

d. PHL Am not sure of its present capacity limits

e. WASH Ivy City is full with the many commuter cars that but that yard will have some additional capacity if the VRE yard SE of the NEC .main ever gets built ?

f. Orlando AutoTrain facility fills up each mid day

g. MIA There does appear some excess capacity there as often new V-2s are prepared there.

h. CHI 14th street near full and more locos at facility will need another yard(s) that were given up in past years.

I. LAX seems OK for now but SOCAL does want more cars and locos

j. Oakland Emeryville do not know

k. SEA unknown but once all Talgos are based there ?

l. New Orleans does have additional capacity but at present does not have consistent need for additional cars as only the CNO train set lays over for 20 hours. It however could have consists lay over longer. The problem s of evacuating NOL when hurricanes threaten as there is not crew base there for using NS and CSX. Sunset and CN routes unknown.

 

[NSC1109]

***THIS IS AN UPDATED VERSION***

ALL CHANGES ARE INDICATED IN RED, BOLD WRITING.

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto.

Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with all Wolverine services terminating in Detroit at MCS. Detroit -- New Center, Troy, Royal Oak, and Pontiac can be served by frequent DMU commuter rail service.

Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules.

Add 372/373 between GRR and CHI, mirroring 370/371.

Add 374/375 and 376/377 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH.

Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though.

360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati.

368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service as the reincarnation of the Lake Cities, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City.

*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station.

NATIONAL NETWORK:

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to Boston. Forget splitting at Albany. Shorter station stop will shorten the running time. Also, this will be a SECURED TRAIN while traveling through Canada to expedite the border-crossing process. The goal is to give customs officials at Niagara Falls a full list of passengers and crew ahead of time so the passengers can be checked against the list and the train can receive a quick inspection before re-entering the US instead of a long, drawn-out process that killed off the International.

Broadway Limited between NYP and Chicago, in LSL's old time slot.

Add a second frequency for qualifying National Network routes. Qualifying routes would have to have sufficient ridership and available equipment and crews, as well as being cost-effective and would depart twice a day, once in the early afternoon (1-2 PM, allowing for morning corridor trains to connect) and once in the evening after dinner, perhaps 7 or 8 PM, allowing mid-afternoon trains to connect. Possible candidates include the Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Lake Shore Limited, etc.

WISCONSIN/MINNESOTA SERVICES:

North Coast Limited (instead of North Coast Hiawatha to avoid confusion with the current Hiawatha), CHI-MSP on a schedule akin to the Wolverine's current schedule.

Expand the Hiawatha schedule to include two more pairs.

ILLINOIS SERVICES:

Reinstatement of the Black Hawk, Chicago to Dubuque, IA.

Implementation of service to the Quad Cities as the Quad Cities Zephyr.

Additional trains for the Lincoln Service.

WESTERN SERVICES:

An additional pair for the Missouri River Runner.

Prairie Star (KCY-DEN).

Front Range Limited, route TBD.

Extending the Heartland Flyer to Kansas City via Wichita and Newton, KS.

Direct rail connection between the Pacific Surfliner and Capitol Corridor services. Currently, this section is only served by the Coast Starlight, creating a gap in corridor service. Creating a specific LA to Oakland service could prove useful to relieving pressure on local highways.

Always taking suggestions!

 

[bms]

Is there any chance the "North Coast Limited" could be routed through Madison? I think something like Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP-Duluth would get quite a bit of business.

Filling the gap between Detroit and Toledo is much needed.

 

[railiner]

I like your idea, but if you are going to bring back an old train name, the more appropriate perhaps, would be one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Star_(Amtrak_train)

 

[cpotisch]

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to Boston. Forget splitting at Albany. Shorter station stop will shorten the running time. Also, this will be a SECURED TRAIN while traveling through Canada to expedite the border-crossing process. The goal is to give customs officials at Niagara Falls a full list of passengers and crew ahead of time so the passengers can be checked against the list and the train can receive a quick inspection before re-entering the US instead of a long, drawn-out process that killed off the International.

Sorry, you're suggesting that the LSL be routed through Canada, and instead of splitting at ALB, it should only run to Boston? Why? That would mean two border crossings each way, and would cut out NYP through passengers, which make up vastly more of the LSL ridership than the Boston section. And remember that train lengths into South Station are relatively limited, so you would have to significantly reduce the consist and capacity, as they're doing this summer. I just don't see how this change would make any sense.

 

[Anthony V]

Is there any chance the "North Coast Limited" could be routed through Madison? I think something like Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP-Duluth would get quite a bit of business.

Filling the gap between Detroit and Toledo is much needed.

It could be, but Governor Scott Walker doesn't want Madison to have any kind of passenger rail service.

 

[dogbert617]

Forget cuts.

Let's say you could ADD to Amtrak, what would you add?

Let's be reasonable. We're not going to see $10B a year added.

Myself:

Start process for replacement of the single-level fleet (already proposed). But make sure to order even more cars to handle increased traffic over coming decades (minimum 500 cars to replace Amfleet I fleet, more likely 600).

Add some form of Sunset East. The train itself doesn't necessarily do well, but one has to consider the power of the network.

Add an ATL-WAS day train. Keep Crescent, but make this route more accessible during daylight hours.

Extend Heartland flyer to Kansas. Again.. it's about the network.

Get all 3-day/week trains to daily. Need reliable service

Extend Vermonter to Montreal

Add a Buffalo-Chi "day train". Again, extend the network, make those cities accessible during DAYLIGHT hours.

I know this is an old post, but I agree with all the things you're saying here. And rather than a 2nd day train for Chicago-Buffalo(I'm okay with the current arrival times into Buffalo on the LSL), I really wish the International would be restored between Chicago and Toronto! I know one can theoretically take the Blue Water to Port Huron and then on their own cross the border into Sarnia to catch Via Rail, but for a lot of customers that'd be a PITA to try to do.

On a different note(and onto Midwest regional trains out of Chicago), I wonder if there's ever any chance that the Hoosier State could possibly be extended east from Indy to Cincinnati, if the Cardinal doesn't become a daily train anytime soon? I wish daily service would finally happen for Cardinal and the Sunset, but part of me worries that won't occur anytime soon. At least it won't occur now, during the Trump administration I suspect.

And I think what NSC means, is that with this secured train proposal through southern Ontario, the LSL will run straight from Niagara Falls, NY to Port Huron, MI WITHOUT doing a single passenger stop and that it'd run express till it got to Michigan. That's what he/she meant, that it'd cut out the travel time going through PA and OH and IN and go straight to Michigan. Which I know MIDOT has long wanted to see occur, one of the long distance trains go through Michigan once again. Since years ago there used to be one of those Michigan trains that'd start/end their run in Toledo, OH, and that MIDOT obviously wants that back. I'm not in favor of ending the splitting/connecting the train cars of LSL in Albany/Rensselaer, since to me that seems like a good idea to continue doing.

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to Boston. Forget splitting at Albany. Shorter station stop will shorten the running time. Also, this will be a SECURED TRAIN while traveling through Canada to expedite the border-crossing process. The goal is to give customs officials at Niagara Falls a full list of passengers and crew ahead of time so the passengers can be checked against the list and the train can receive a quick inspection before re-entering the US instead of a long, drawn-out process that killed off the International.

Sorry, you're suggesting that the LSL be routed through Canada, and instead of splitting at ALB, it should only run to Boston? Why? That would mean two border crossings each way, and would cut out NYP through passengers, which make up vastly more of the LSL ridership than the Boston section. And remember that train lengths into South Station are relatively limited, so you would have to significantly reduce the consist and capacity, as they're doing this summer. I just don't see how this change would make any sense.

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to Boston. Forget splitting at Albany. Shorter station stop will shorten the running time. Also, this will be a SECURED TRAIN while traveling through Canada to expedite the border-crossing process. The goal is to give customs officials at Niagara Falls a full list of passengers and crew ahead of time so the passengers can be checked against the list and the train can receive a quick inspection before re-entering the US instead of a long, drawn-out process that killed off the International.

Sorry, you're suggesting that the LSL be routed through Canada, and instead of splitting at ALB, it should only run to Boston? Why? That would mean two border crossings each way, and would cut out NYP through passengers, which make up vastly more of the LSL ridership than the Boston section. And remember that train lengths into South Station are relatively limited, so you would have to significantly reduce the consist and capacity, as they're doing this summer. I just don't see how this change would make any sense.

 

[dogbert617]

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto.

Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with 350-355 and 360-363 terminating there and 356-359 continuing to Pontiac.

Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules.

Add 372/373 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH.

Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though.

360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati.

368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service under the "Michigander" name, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City.

*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station.

NATIONAL NETWORK:

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to ALB and then split to BOS/NYP.

Broadway Limited between NYP and Chicago, in LSL's old time slot.

WISCONSIN/MINNESOTA SERVICES:

North Coast Limited (instead of North Coast Hiawatha to avoid confusion with the current Hiawatha), CHI-MSP on a schedule akin to the Wolverine's current schedule.

Expand the Hiawatha schedule to include two more pairs.

ILLINOIS SERVICES:

Reinstatement of the Black Hawk, Chicago to Dubuque, IA, under numbers 374-377

Implementation of service to the Quad Cities under the "Quad Cities Zephyr" banner, number 385-388.

Additional trains for the Lincoln Service.

WESTERN SERVICES:

An additional pair for the Missouri River Runner

Prarie Star (KCY-DEN), numbers 401-406.

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416

All good ideas, but I'd also like to see Minneapolis to Duluth have train service between those cities again. And agree with Pere Flyer, that a 2nd train run for the Pere Marquette(to Grand Rapids) would be a great idea. I'd also love for the Blue Water, to get a 2nd train as well. And definitely agree it'd be awesome to see the North Coast Hiawatha paralleling I-94(and I-90 west of Billings), be brought back into service! It's sad the only way to get to Billings, Missoula, etc., is taking a bus like Greyhound to get to those cities.

Side question since I hadn't researched it much: I am correct that Amtrak and Greyhound share the same station/transit center in Spokane? I suppose one could always board/disembark the EB in Spokane, and then take Greyhound east into Missoula. Since the thought of an ultra long bus ride between say Minneapolis(or Fargo) west to Missoula scares the crap outta me. I don't mind traveling on a bus, but I'd rather do that for shorter trips and not an overnight one or longer.

 

[railiner]

Like many other places, Greyhound has abandoned its entire route from Minneapolis to Spokane...Jefferson Lines has replaced them, but with less schedules....

 

[JayPea]

To answer the question about Spokane, Amtrak and intercity bus service are housed in the same building. For what it's worth and having nothing to do with the question, there is a police precinct housed in the building as well. Sometimes that comes in handy with some of the train and bus passengers.

 

[JayPea]

Like many other places, Greyhound has abandoned its entire route from Minneapolis to Spokane...Jefferson Lines has replaced them, but with less schedules....

Is Anderson the CEO of Greyhound too??