What would you add?

[railgeekteen]

Mexico should have at least a few trains connecting it with the US.

 

[railiner]

Mexico should have at least a few trains, period....(other than transit)...

 

[Bob Dylan]

Mexico should have at least a few trains, period....(other than transit)...

There are 2 Passenger Trains left( now Privately owned), the Copper Canyon Train between Los Mochos and Chihuhua City, and the Touristy Tequila Express between Guadalajara and Tequila,Jalisco.

 

[railiner]

Mexico should have at least a few trains, period....(other than transit)...

There are 2 Passenger Trains left( now Privately owned), the Copper Canyon Train between Los Mochos and Chihuhua City, and the Touristy Tequila Express between Guadalajara and Tequila,Jalisco.

Interesting...heard of the first one, but not the latter one....nothing on NdeM, though?

I used to see their Pullman's come in to Penn Station, NY, on the Penn Texas....

 

[ehbowen]

Mexico should have at least a few trains, period....(other than transit)...

There are 2 Passenger Trains left( now Privately owned), the Copper Canyon Train between Los Mochos and Chihuhua City, and the Touristy Tequila Express between Guadalajara and Tequila,Jalisco.

Interesting...heard of the first one, but not the latter one....nothing on NdeM, though?

I used to see their Pullman's come in to Penn Station, NY, on the Penn Texas....

Nacionales de Mexico is no more. It was broken up and privatized in the late 1990s, and officially shut down in 2001.

When it was being privatized, I understand that the Mexican government floated the idea of a "Mextrak". The private consortia who were bidding for the bones of NdeM basically said, "Like hell you will!" So essentially all Mexican intercity passenger service went bye-bye.

Isn't progress wonderful?

 

[jis]

Who knows? The Brightline model in Florida may percolate back to Mexico. FerroMex now owns FECR, so at least one railroad in the family understands how to enhance revenue by letting a partner run passenger trains. The issue will then be finding a willing partner who sees an opportunity in real estate and transportation development on busy corridors.

 

[neroden]

Lopez Obrador, who just won by a huge landslide, is strongly in favor of building high-speed passenger rail lines in Mexico. They may get HSR before the US does.

This god-damned backwards country we live in...

 

[Bob Dylan]

Lopez Obrador, who just won by a huge landslide, is strongly in favor of building high-speed passenger rail lines in Mexico. They may get HSR before the US does.

This god-damned backwards country we live in...

This!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Lopez Obrador, who just won by a huge landslide, is strongly in favor of building high-speed passenger rail lines in Mexico. They may get HSR before the US does.

This god-damned backwards country we live in...

Well, at least that means that Amtrak will survive in its current form for a bit longer (minus changes by Anderson)!

 

[bms]

I like your idea, but if you are going to bring back an old train name, the more appropriate perhaps, would be one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Star_(Amtrak_train)

Good point, I was just referring back to the post above mine. It seems to me that with a 13-hour trip, the North Star from Chicago to Duluth would work a lot better as a daytime train instead of an overnight sleeper service like the North Star train had in 1978. Calling times at the intermediate stations between CHI-MSP were pretty inconvenient on that 1978 schedule.

 

[cpotisch]

In my book, the main routes we need back are the Sunset East and the Desert Wind. Florida is completely isolated and it requires at least two transfers to get to any of the Western LD routes. All the trackage is there, but there just seems to be too little political willpower to make it happen. And with the Desert Wind, Las Vegas would once again get rail service (it doesn't have any at the moment), and could be scheduled to connect with the CZ in SLC for connections to Chicago.

 

[ehbowen]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

 

[cpotisch]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

This!!!!!!!!!!

 

[railiner]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

6....You mean that you would not run the Pioneer thru Salt Lake City, (or at least, Ogden)? And why send the Desert Wind thru Wyoming?

 

[ehbowen]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

6....You mean that you would not run the Pioneer thru Salt Lake City, (or at least, Ogden)? And why send the Desert Wind thru Wyoming?

The present California Zephyr would remain as it is, unchanged. The new Desert Wind/Pioneer would provide a second frequency between Chicago and Omaha, where it would diverge onto the route of the Union Pacific City trains. The Pioneer section would branch off at Green River for Portland, while the Desert Wind would continue west for Ogden and Salt Lake City. If we could get On Time Performance to acceptable levels, we could connect with the CZ in Salt Lake City to provide a ride from Denver to LA. Since the historic UP route is quite a bit faster than the Rio Grande's route through Colorado the new DW/P could leave Chicago a couple hours behind the CZ making the most of the second frequency and providing a late-departure option for through passengers to both southern and northern (via the SLC connection) California.

 

[railiner]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

6....You mean that you would not run the Pioneer thru Salt Lake City, (or at least, Ogden)? And why send the Desert Wind thru Wyoming?

The present California Zephyr would remain as it is, unchanged. The new Desert Wind/Pioneer would provide a second frequency between Chicago and Omaha, where it would diverge onto the route of the Union Pacific City trains. The Pioneer section would branch off at Green River for Portland, while the Desert Wind would continue west for Ogden and Salt Lake City. If we could get On Time Performance to acceptable levels, we could connect with the CZ in Salt Lake City to provide a ride from Denver to LA. Since the historic UP route is quite a bit faster than the Rio Grande's route through Colorado the new DW/P could leave Chicago a couple hours behind the CZ making the most of the second frequency and providing a late-departure option for through passengers to both southern and northern (via the SLC connection) California.

While adding a second frequency would be nice...I would be very satisfied just to see a Desert Wind and Pioneer branching off the existing CZ at Salt Lake City, as in the early '80's...

 

[ehbowen]

Just off the top of my head at this present moment in rough order of priority:

1. Desert Wind
2. Lone Star (replacing Heartland Flyer)
3. Sunset East (or CONO Extension)
   
4. Broadway Limited
5. Daily Sunset Limited
   
6. Pioneer (operating via Cheyenne and combined with Desert Wind east of Green River)
7. North Coast Limited
8. Daily Cardinal
   
9. Floridian (would be much higher priority but for the amount of track work/restoration needed)
10. (Edit To Add) National Limited...again, amount of track work needed drags it way down.

Just MHO.

6....You mean that you would not run the Pioneer thru Salt Lake City, (or at least, Ogden)? And why send the Desert Wind thru Wyoming?

The present California Zephyr would remain as it is, unchanged. The new Desert Wind/Pioneer would provide a second frequency between Chicago and Omaha, where it would diverge onto the route of the Union Pacific City trains. The Pioneer section would branch off at Green River for Portland, while the Desert Wind would continue west for Ogden and Salt Lake City. If we could get On Time Performance to acceptable levels, we could connect with the CZ in Salt Lake City to provide a ride from Denver to LA. Since the historic UP route is quite a bit faster than the Rio Grande's route through Colorado the new DW/P could leave Chicago a couple hours behind the CZ making the most of the second frequency and providing a late-departure option for through passengers to both southern and northern (via the SLC connection) California.

While adding a second frequency would be nice...I would be very satisfied just to see a Desert Wind and Pioneer branching off the existing CZ at Salt Lake City, as in the early '80's...

If it was just the California Zephyr and Desert Wind, I would agree with you. However, when you throw another major train and major destination into the mix, you either end up with a train of unwieldy length or else too little equipment to properly serve the various major destinations (my premise for this thought exercise is that suitable new equipment can be acquired as necessary). So at that point I believe that it's best to split the train up into two sections...and if you're doing that, why not take the option of serving Wyoming on the faster route with a reconnect in Salt Lake City along the way?

 

[railiner]

Okay, on that basis, 'suitable new equipment can be acquired as necessary'...I would support your suggestion...maybe even further, by using the UP all the way to Chicago, not just Omaha....

 

[west point]

All these proposals western trains require more superliner type equipment. At present there is no manufacturer ale to meet superliner equipment. So what to do ? adding these trains need superliners for equipment compatibility and maybe even car interchanges between trains. The West coast seems to be the center for present and the proposed future superliner trains. The only way to get the additional superliners is to rob the Midwest of its cars,

That would mean the few short distance superliner equipped trains the CNO and Capitol. loose their SL and get single level cars. Oh also the few being used by California. Maybe the Sunset cars SAS NOL ? Now that would have an advantage of closing the maintenance work of superliners at NOL and moving parts to west coast. Then NOL could concentrate on AMs, V-1,2s , and Horizons ?

But until the Midwest gets its Siemens cars and Amtrak can order additional ones then what can be added ? There certainly isn't a possibility of single level cars money until a possible FY 2020 allocation ? Our understanding is that Siemens is getting booked up on orders and who knows when their first car spots will be available ?

Sorry for the cold water ! It does bother us quite a bit !

 

[cpotisch]

That would mean the few short distance superliner equipped trains the CNO and Capitol. loose their SL and get single level cars.

The CONO and Capitol are both long distance.

 

[ehbowen]

A real commitment to restoring a realistic rail passenger infrastructure must necessarily include a realistic rail passenger equipment manufacturing capability.

 

[neroden]

Or, we could just stop being all "Buy America" and get off-the-shelf European trains.

 

[Pere Flyer]

I’m not sure if this reroute has been previously floated, but I’d really like to see the Heartland Flyer become a KCY-Tulsa-OKC-FTW-SAS train. That route would require new track at least Tulsa-Stillwater-OKC but would serve new markets in Tulsa, OSU-Stillwater, and points in between. It would connect West Missouri, Northeast/Central/Southern Oklahoma, and North/Central/South Texas directly and would allow a one-seat ride between Big 12 schools in Stillwater, Norman, Fort Worth, Waco (indirectly), and Austin.

With the extension, the Texas Eagle would be rerouted west of FTW and terminated in ELP, serving Abilene, Midland-Odessa, and other points in between. Nos. 421 and 422 would connect with Nos. 1 and 2, respectively, at ELP. Nos. 1 and 2 would operate the normal route.

These reroutes would eliminate no markets and gain 4 big markets in Tulsa, Stillwater, Abilene, and Midland-Odessa.

 

[cpotisch]

I’m not sure if this reroute has been previously floated, but I’d really like to see the Heartland Flyer become a KCY-Tulsa-OKC-FTW-SAS train. That route would require new track at least Tulsa-Stillwater-OKC but would serve new markets in Tulsa, OSU-Stillwater, and points in between. It would connect West Missouri, Northeast/Central/Southern Oklahoma, and North/Central/South Texas directly and would allow a one-seat ride between Big 12 schools in Stillwater, Norman, Fort Worth, Waco (indirectly), and Austin.

With the extension, the Texas Eagle would be rerouted west of FTW and terminated in ELP, serving Abilene, Midland-Odessa, and other points in between. Nos. 421 and 422 would connect with Nos. 1 and 2, respectively, at ELP. Nos. 1 and 2 would operate the normal route.

These reroutes would eliminate no markets and gain 4 big markets in Tulsa, Stillwater, Abilene, and Midland-Odessa.

The Heartland Flyer is a state funded, three car long, single-consist train that currently takes less than four hours end to end. If you extended it up to KCY and down to SAS, it would likely be a 15+ hour trip. Quite frankly, I don't see what the point would be in lengthening that trip so drastically, probably needing sleepers and definitely more than one consist, and rerouting the TE. It makes sense to extend the HF to Kansas City, but I do not think it would at all make sense to do everything else you're suggesting.

 

[Pere Flyer]

I’m not sure if this reroute has been previously floated, but I’d really like to see the Heartland Flyer become a KCY-Tulsa-OKC-FTW-SAS train. That route would require new track at least Tulsa-Stillwater-OKC but would serve new markets in Tulsa, OSU-Stillwater, and points in between. It would connect West Missouri, Northeast/Central/Southern Oklahoma, and North/Central/South Texas directly and would allow a one-seat ride between Big 12 schools in Stillwater, Norman, Fort Worth, Waco (indirectly), and Austin.

With the extension, the Texas Eagle would be rerouted west of FTW and terminated in ELP, serving Abilene, Midland-Odessa, and other points in between. Nos. 421 and 422 would connect with Nos. 1 and 2, respectively, at ELP. Nos. 1 and 2 would operate the normal route.

These reroutes would eliminate no markets and gain 4 big markets in Tulsa, Stillwater, Abilene, and Midland-Odessa.

The Heartland Flyer is a state funded, three car long, single-consist train that currently takes less than four hours end to end. If you extended it up to KCY and down to SAS, it would likely be a 15+ hour trip. Quite frankly, I don't see what the point would be in lengthening that trip so drastically, probably needing sleepers and definitely more than one consist, and rerouting the TE. It makes sense to extend the HF to Kansas City, but I do not think it would at all make sense to do everything else you're suggesting.

Your points are valid. I know a reroute like this would not be simple. Were the changes to be made, Amtrak would need improved timekeeping and speed restrictions, especially south of FTW; double tracking the entire route; additional equipment; additional crew; commissaries in KCY, FTW, and SAS; etc.