Woman survives fall from moving Amtrak train

[FormerOBS]

My dad felt a great responsibility to take care of my mom after she lost the ability. He was about 90 at the time & she was in her late 80's. She became as dependent as a small child, and the job was beyond his ability. She was miserable because she was prescient enough to know something was not right, but she didn't understand why. She was also in constant pain from several physical problems, and didn't understand her limitations. Eventually, she went into a care facility where she got the professional care she needed. When Mom died, Dad knew he had done all he could for her. When he died a couple years later, he died with a clear conscience. Taking care of elderly people with numerous physical and mental problems is a very special skill, and most of us don't have the innate ability, or the learned ability, to do it. Those who do are truly angels. Sometimes it's best for us to let the pros take over. That doesn't mean we've abandoned our loved ones. It simply means we recognize the reality of the situation, and we do our best to provide what's needed.

 

[George Harris]

Assisted living facilities should require the incarceration of any living competent progeny. It is a child's job to take care of their parents in old age, no matter how inconvenient. After all, you are just repaying the favor long due.

Tell us about it after you have had to deal with it. After that you might be singing a different tune. It is usually a very difficult decision and normally done after it should have been, and the last thing need is some loud mouthed Monday morning quarterback pronouncing a solution to a problem they have never faced.

 

[George Harris]

Yes, it's awful when these stories come up, but I don't see how it's Amtrak's "fault," if she opened the window, climbed up on the stepbox, and either fell, jumped, or climbed out. It's one thing to be sure the doors are secure when the train is moving, but it would be another to restrain the passengers so they can't get AT the door.

There are improvements in the design that can be implemented in future cars to prevent people from opening the side doors when they should not and to alert the crew that the door has been opened. The specifications for the bi-level corridor car being built by Nippon-Sharyo covers sensors to detect when each door is open and speed sensors to keep the doors closed when not at zero speed. There are multiple pages of specs for the side door operations, which are quite extensive and some of which are aimed at preventing the sort of incident that occurred here.

At a minimum, If there was a sensor that displayed to the engineer that a door or the window had been manually opened while the train was moving and that data was recorded, then Amtrak after a review of the log could have told the local police department where to look for the missing passenger.

The spec is the same as used on the California and Surfliner cars. In the cab of the locomotives and cab cars there is a door light that alerts the engineer that a door is open, and when it's iluminated the locomotive won't load / will drop the load (make tractive power).

This sort of thing works because these sets normally are fixed consists and are trainlined to work in push-pull mode. It is completely impractical for trainsets with variable consists of mixed equipment. furthere it is quite common for there to be stops where all doors are not opened nor can be because they are not all adjacent to a platform. A warning light or beeper in the car involved is about the best that can be done.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Words of wisdom from those who've been there Lion! Walk a mile in their shoes!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Assisted living facilities should require the incarceration of any living competent progeny. It is a child's job to take care of their parents in old age, no matter how inconvenient. After all, you are just repaying the favor long due.

Tell us about it after you have had to deal with it. After that you might be singing a different tune. It is usually a very difficult decision and normally done after it should have been, and the last thing need is some loud mouthed Monday morning quarterback pronouncing a solution to a problem they have never faced.

What makes you think I have not faced it?

 

[FriskyFL]

Assisted living facilities should require the incarceration of any living competent progeny. It is a child's job to take care of their parents in old age, no matter how inconvenient. After all, you are just repaying the favor long due.

Clearly the voice of inexperience talking. May you never face the prospect.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I repeat, what on gods green earth makes you think I haven't?

 

[Paulus]

I repeat, what on gods green earth makes you think I haven't?

The fact that it is a completely idiotic proposal.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

That a child should be legally responsible for caring for their parent, as a parent is legally responsible for caring for their child?

 

[X]

Yes, it's awful when these stories come up, but I don't see how it's Amtrak's "fault," if she opened the window, climbed up on the stepbox, and either fell, jumped, or climbed out. It's one thing to be sure the doors are secure when the train is moving, but it would be another to restrain the passengers so they can't get AT the door.

There are improvements in the design that can be implemented in future cars to prevent people from opening the side doors when they should not and to alert the crew that the door has been opened. The specifications for the bi-level corridor car being built by Nippon-Sharyo covers sensors to detect when each door is open and speed sensors to keep the doors closed when not at zero speed. There are multiple pages of specs for the side door operations, which are quite extensive and some of which are aimed at preventing the sort of incident that occurred here.

At a minimum, If there was a sensor that displayed to the engineer that a door or the window had been manually opened while the train was moving and that data was recorded, then Amtrak after a review of the log could have told the local police department where to look for the missing passenger.

The spec is the same as used on the California and Surfliner cars. In the cab of the locomotives and cab cars there is a door light that alerts the engineer that a door is open, and when it's iluminated the locomotive won't load / will drop the load (make tractive power).

This sort of thing works because these sets normally are fixed consists and are trainlined to work in push-pull mode. It is completely impractical for trainsets with variable consists of mixed equipment. furthere it is quite common for there to be stops where all doors are not opened nor can be because they are not all adjacent to a platform. A warning light or beeper in the car involved is about the best that can be done.

No need for MU, it works over the 27-pin comm which is the same trainline as the PA. Cars that aren't equipped with door summary just pass the signal through and always show as closed. If only one car has door summary than that car will still have door protection, even if the rest of the train doesn't.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That a child should be legally responsible for caring for their parent, as a parent is legally responsible for caring for their child?

No child ever "chose" to be born to their parents and thus has no legal responsibility to them once they reach adulthood. If your children want to take care of you then that's great, but the decision is and will remain theirs alone. If you don't want your children to abandon you then maybe you should be careful how you raise them and how well you treat them before and after they reach adulthood. Nonetheless the decision remains theirs to make. Your suggestion to turn it into some sort of legal requirement is just as confusing and illogical as most of your other screwball theories.

 

[ReneInEscondido]

"other screwball theories" was the name of my band in high school, it was great for getting chicks

 

[Trainmans daughter]

When I was a baby and needed to be fed, changed, bathed, etc, my mom was in her 20's and able to do everything for me.

Now I am 69 and the caregiver for my 92 year old mother-in-law. Right now, she is able to do those things for herself, but has told me in no uncertain terms that if she ever gets to the place where she needs to be fed, bathed, and changed, I am to put her in a home where qualified younger people can do for her. Besides, she's bigger than I am (and smarter, too, since she knows everything)!

So far, she makes good choices, but have noticed brief moments of confusion. I don't think I'd put her on a train by herself, but if she wanted to, there's not much I could do about it. Remember, she knows everything!

 

[andersone]

I had the privilege of taking care of my father, god rest his soul, for the last ten years of his 95 years on this planet. Sadly at the end we had to rely on assisted living because my charming bride and no longer had the skills and abilities to do the same,,,, I was prepared to raise kids, but never prepared to take care of pappy,,,, i looked at it as though he took care of me, now it was my turn to take care of him,,,, and i am grateful for every day i did

 

[George Harris]

That a child should be legally responsible for caring for their parent, as a parent is legally responsible for caring for their child?

No child ever "chose" to be born to their parents and thus has no legal responsibility to them once they reach adulthood. If your children want to take care of you then that's great, but the decision is and will remain theirs alone. If you don't want your children to abandon you then maybe you should be careful how you raise them and how well you treat them before and after they reach adulthood. Nonetheless the decision remains theirs to make. Your suggestion to turn it into some sort of legal requirement is just as confusing and illogical as most of your other screwball theories.

I did feel the absolute obligation, along with my sister, to take care of my parents to the best of my ability when they became unable to tlake care of themselves. When that meant that I was unable to do it without assistance, then we managed to do the best we could afford to do. I see no reason to either apologise or explain why there was a time my mother was in an assisted living facility.

As to legal compulsion, I seriously doubt that someone that cares for someone only to the extent they are legally compelled to do so, would do it satisfactorily much less do it well.

 

[NW cannonball]

I'd like to get back to the original topic, yeah, we all have obligations to parents and kids, and that can be an emotional minefield - we mostly do the best we can.

What can you, or I, or the On-board crew, actually do? When someone elderly, or suffering a stroke, whatever -- what can we do?

Not much. I'm thinking that the fact "we can't do much" is kind of scary. But true.

Some other passenger has a TIA, gets lost, thinks they are somewhere else. Walks out the door.

What can anyone do?

Sure, safer doors with partly hidden escape locks might help. Maybe.

More checks on passengers that look frail and confused might help. Maybe.

I sure don't want to be "restricted, possibly demented" when I ride the train 20 years from now.

Unless I actually am impaired then. But I won't be. In my own mind, anyhow.

It ain't easy.

 

[FormerOBS]

There is a very old expression that seems to be relevant to this, and so many other topics:

"For every complex problem, there is a simple solution ---which is wrong."

 

[Green Maned Lion]

For every problem there is a solution that is obvious, simple, easy, cheap, and wrong.

 

[FormerOBS]

Two sides of the same coin.

 

[amamba]

Assisted living facilities should require the incarceration of any living competent progeny. It is a child's job to take care of their parents in old age, no matter how inconvenient. After all, you are just repaying the favor long due.

No. Just no.

 

[NW cannonball]

Assisted living facilities should require the incarceration of any living competent progeny. It is a child's job to take care of their parents in old age, no matter how inconvenient. After all, you are just repaying the favor long due.

No. Just no.

Right. Just right.